A valuable coin is missing.
Turmoil
Posts: 5 ✭
Caution: a valuable coin is missing.
Important: Be aware of any 1893-S Morgan dollar coin, AU-50 or better, that you come across. It may be stolen property.
Note: All of the below acquisitions are only alleged and from my personal observations and point of view. Some of them are quite serious.
On April 24, 2024, I sent PCGS a 1893-S Morgan dollar by Registered Mail. I believed that this coin was AU-50 or better. This is a very valuable coin. When my package arrived to PCGS they informed me that they only received a 1887-S Morgan dollar.
I believe that my valuable coin was lost or stolen at the PCGS facility and that a lesser coin was substituted in its place.
There are several possibilities that could have happened:
Number one possibility: The supervision and quality control of their incoming mail was faulty. My coin got mixed up with other incoming coins. The Receiving Specialist was obviously a confused and disorganized person. She sent me email that was meant for a different person describing a problem with their $5 Gold coin. She sent me email referring to submission numbers which were not mine. She made typo errors that she later apologized for. If this is true then maybe my valuable coin is still in their facility, or maybe it got shipped out to a different person?
Another possibility: My coin was stolen by an individual in the receiving room and then another coin was substituted for it. This facility may process dozens of coins a day. There was a person in the receiving room, that came to work with an average Morgan dollar in their pocket, that was just waiting for the correct situation to use it. Through slight of hand, at an obscure angle from the cameras, they replaced my valuable coin with their average coin.
I have been talking with their investigative people and they disagree with both of the above possibilities. But I do not believe them. I have not seen the movies of the unpacking procedure. I really would like to see them Someone in their facility stole my coin. With normal eyesight it is easy to see the difference between the numbers 1893 and 1887. Three people (including myself) saw me put the correct coin in my package and ship it to PCGS.
This coin has been stuck away in my boyhood collection since the 1950's. I really did not know what I had, or even have now, until I have started examining it. My Parents found this coin in Las Vegas when it was still common to use coins in the slot machines. I am now 77 years old and it is a tragedy for this to happen after all these years. Someone with that coin is now a rich person.
I repeat: Be aware of any 1893-S Morgan dollar coin, AU-50 or better, that you come across. It may be stolen property.
Comments
You come to the PCGS forum to insist that PCGS stole your coin?
Let's say that I do come across an 1893-S Morgan dollar. What do you expect me to do? 🤔
I sense a quick unhappy ending
All of the actions of the receiving department are carefully videoed by security cameras.
I'm sure PCGS could readily prove that the coin you sent was the coin they have.
Coin Photographer.
Without commenting on the story, I will say that one part is indisputably incorrect
I suppose it may process dozens of coins a day but my suspicion is that you are missing some zeros.
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We should have a poll:
Was this an abolitionist dollar?
That's a lot of turmoil.
I highly doubt this coin was stolen. It wouldn't happen. To much at stake.
You must have made a mistake somewhere. Either that or something occurred at the post office. I doubt that also.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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As we say here in Boston, "DON'T POKE THE BEAR".
PCGS will not look favorably on this thread if you do.
I suggest you keep working with our hosts in private and limit any negative postings here.
I do hope that you come to a pleasent outcome and that your coin is found.
@jmlanzaf said:
I go with #3.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
The date and condition are one thing... But not descriptive enough.
Post pictures, descriptors?
You sent off a highly valuable coin but did not take phots? PLease share images of your 1887-s.... I mean 93-s sorry...
I wouldn’t rule out a mishap of some sort. It has happened to me and upon review of the video footage, PCGS paid out on the claim. I’m not going to get into specifics of my situation, but can confirm that mishaps do happen from time to time.
@Turmoil - this is probably not the right place to air your dispute and may make things worse - continue to escalate at PCGS and let the process play out.
Hopefully you took pictures of the coin(s) you sent in.
Also recommend double checking your inventory in case you sent in the wrong coin by accident.
I hope that's all it is... there have been numerous threads about the receiving process at PCGS and how every step of that process is under video surveillance. The second choice is an outright felony, so I'm SURE the submitter wouldn't do THAT.
...it's a Friday night... yeah, #3...
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In this case your username is quite apropos. If the coin is truly lost, I wish you the best in recovering it. I would believe it was lost/stolen by the Post Office as a more likely scenario than what you are proposing happened.
Donato
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It’s Friday again.
Thank you for all the above comments. I am certain that someone in PCGS has found a way to bypass their security and stole my coin. The security people at PCGS certainly disagree but will continue to investigate. It is rather far fetched and unbelievable that the Post Office did the switch. I have had that coin hidden away in my stuff since the 1950's. I did not know what I had. It makes you wonder " why me and why now?".
I had a package deftly opened along the way by a postal employee this week.
Think they were disappointed it was seasoning oil for my Smithey cast iron frying pans.
I always box and sometimes double box.
USPS employees are not dumb. They know
Had one approach me... " you are the camera and drone guy... "
I have more confidence in PCGS than the USPS
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Stolen is the least likely explanation. Mixup or mishap is far more likely. What’s the current status of the PCGS investigation?
Do you have any photos of what you sent?
You’re going to hurt your case (and badly) by assuming that a PCGS employee stole the coin.
I believe it’s far more likely that:
1) You accidentally sent a different coin than the one you thought you did.
or
2) There was an innocent mixup by someone in receiving at PCGS.
or
3) A very slim possibility that someone at the post office switched coins.
I suggest that you work with PCGS, not against them. And focus on getting them to show you a video of the package being opened. That would hopefully put the matter to rest, one way or another.
Best of luck.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Very simply PCGS can say they have their photographic proof shows no fraud on their part of opening the contents of the box .. this should have been settled immediately after contents of box came into question..The fact it has not been settled leads me to believe there is more to this story
I am sure PCGS will get this settled and are not worried about this thread..
My choice also #3
I cannot fathom PCGS allowing any real possibility of nefarious behavior in their receiving process, and I believe the same is true for NGC and the major auction houses. Indeed, I think that the reputation loss would be too great a risk to even allow a slim possibility at any point in the major grading or auction houses handling of coins. Sure, a label error, but intentional disappearance of a coin, an exceptionally rare potential IMHO.
It also seems fairly difficult to fathom a postal employee swapping a coin, stealing sure, but swapping doesn't seem at all likely.
I've heard this nonsense about grading services possibly "switching" coins by various people; it makes no sense. Why would they be on the lookout for your coin when there are much higher end coins? If you have full insurance, took pictures; I'd wait for them to retrieve their pictures of your box when it came in. They get many headaches every day, these are very responsible hard working people. Don't make their jobs harder than they already are.
Turmoil indeed.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
It is more likely that the coin was switched at the Post Office than PCGS as there is less security at the Post Office. It does not take a genius to figure out a package addressed to PCGS may have a coin or coins inside. How was your coin shipped and packaged? Was the coin insured by the Post Office for shipping? If you did not send the coin registered mail, your package has more exposure to shipping theft.
You forgot one other possibility. Accusation is total bull 💩
Are we really going to believe that the Post Office has Morgans laying around to switch out for others that happen to come their way? Someone along the way stealing it or losing it I’d believe. Substituting it for a similarly-dated one, no. I’d vote trolling or honest mistake on the part of the OP.
I do not know why some of you are telling me that I should be afraid of PSGS. (do not anger them, do not poke the bear, etc.) After all, they are the ones who caused this mess. Their receiving specialist was confused and had to be incompetent. She was sending me email about $5 gold coin meant for another customer. She mixed up submission numbers and made several typos in her email. I certainly do not trust her. Just who knows where she really routed my coin and then tried to covered up her mistake?
I only came for the pictures, are they coming?
Hard to look out for something that I've never seen. Just say'n.
bob
Can you produce a copy of your submission?
First, your continued ranting against a company that almost everyone here trusts at a very high level to maintain security, without you posting any pictures and only escalating your claims makes YOU seem far LESS credible.
And as a physician it makes me think that you may need to seek help.
It would seem appropriate for moderation to close this thread as it really is no longer productive. Your unsupported accusations are defamatory and you have not even tried to provide any pictures after multiple requests to prove said coin actually exists.
It's going to be a fun weekend with this thread before it gets shut down on Monday.
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I would bet my life on it, that PCGS didnt switch the coin out. They grade millions of $ of coins a month, do you know what kind of reputation damage would be done if that were true.
I’m not a doctor, nor have I played one on tv, but these were my thoughts as well.
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To say PCGS stole your coin is ridiculous. Why would they put their reputation on the line for YOUR coin?
My choice is #3
@walkerfan
+1
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
Assuming this is just not some troll -
There is almost zero chance a PCGS employee stole your coin. A mistake may have been made. Not that makes you feel any better.
If you want the forum members to lend any credence to this highly unusual claim, it would be great if you could produce SOME type of proof/evidence.
-pictures of the coin
-picture of your submission form
-screenshot of the emails
-etc
Otherwise, most of us will assume this story is an utter fabrication, and this thread will spiral into a 3 day long troll fest until the mods close it. Fortunately, it’s rather amusing and we might get some good memes out of it from @Manifest_Destiny.
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3
I vote troll job and not a very good one. There is a reason these types of posts start late on Friday afternoon.
Philippians 4:4-7
Attached is my submission form to PCGS. I truly regret that I did not photograph the coin before I sent it. I too was relying on the integrity of Registered Mail and of PCGS to get the job done. There remains no doubt in my mind that someone in PCGS has found a way to bypass their security or that someone in the USPO pilfered my package. I have submitted a claim to the USPO. It was insured for $10K which is only a fraction of the value of that coin.
Your submission form wasn’t attached.
I don’t see how the USPO would pay a claim without some sort of evidence that the coin never arrived. As the package was obviously delivered and there hasn’t been any mention of it having been compromised, the USPO fulfilled its obligation and you won’t be reimbursed by them.
I’ll try one more time with my prior advice:
You’re going to hurt your case (and badly) by assuming that a PCGS employee stole the coin.
I suggest that you work with PCGS, not against them. And focus on getting them to show you a video of the package being opened. That would hopefully put the matter to rest, one way or another.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Turmoil: First, follow MFeld’s advice and you will be ahead of the game.
Second, you owned this rarity for decades and decades. You must have hundreds of pics of you and this great rarity. Please show everyone here a pic of you and your precious coin. If you want to cover up a part of your face for privacy reasons- no worries. We really do not want to see your face at this point. We want to see a handful of great photos of the coin with its proud owner (you) holding it up, etc.
These pics will only help you as you proceed as well. Ready to show everyone here a few pics of you and the coin?
Wondercoin
I doubt the whole story.