Great ethics
KatanaPilot
Posts: 16 ✭✭
Saw this in Coin World today. The lone MS68 sold for $5,760.00.
Then I saw this at Eagle Eye Rare Coins (dealer Rick Snow)
My favorite of his published statements:
** “This is the finest known example”
** “Recently a MS67 example sold for $10,000.00 on eBay. This is probably cheap for the grade” (yeah, sure it did)
** “The population is already at its peak and that this is the finest now, and will remain the finest”
** “There are no flaws, strike-throughs or white spots. It is very close to perfect. There is a small tick to the left of the T in CENT. (Side note 1 - apparently ticks are no longer flaws) This only serves to identify this example (Side note 2 - apparently the tick was added for identification purposes) and might be the only thing that keeps it from a MS68 grade, which, I believe, would be a $100,000 coin.
** “Only 6 examples are graded MS67+, none higher"
My favorite: “All the examples graded NS67+ by PCGS have issues which make them lesser quality to this piece, so this is the finest known example”. This statement is most impressive since he’s never seen the two I own.
He was made aware of the 68 example back when it was made as well as pointing out the falsities in his ad. Yet it remains.
Now that's good business ethics!
Comments
is it possible the MS68 example was returned and is now the sole MS67+?
If so then the accuracy of the above is spot-on.
Also, is it within the realm of possibility the dealer with the 67+ isn't aware of the MS68?
I checked and I don't see PCGS POP reports for this variety.
Here is the TrueView:
peacockcoins
A few questions, if you don’t mind…
Did you make the two MS67+ examples that you own, and that’s why you said Mr. Snow had never seen them?
By what method was he made aware of the MS68 coin and how long ago?
Thank you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A click on this forum member's discussions may be revealing.
>
The pop report shows an MS68. If there had been a downgrade to a 67+, I think the change would have been reflected.
https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/46?l=lincoln-cent-wheat-reverse-1909-1958&ccid=0&p=MS&bsn=2717&sn=37822&pn=5&ps=100
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks Mark.
Just trying to come up with possible scenarios.
This is one of those, "think horses, not zebras" situations.
peacockcoins
Ah, shoot.
I just did and you are right.
(I've got to learn not to take everyone seriously.)
peacockcoins
Understood, Pat. My first thought was that maybe there had been a downgrade, which is why I checked the pop report.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Add it to the list!
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1099777/pcgs-and-cac-fabulous#latest
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peacockcoins
If anyone is taking bets, I would bet quite a bit of money that OP is out pal EJ again.
Hey OP, I'm a man of my word and discretion, many people here will vouch for me. If you can prove that you are not EJ I'll send you $50.
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Not to stir a hornet's nest, but who is EJ?
peacockcoins
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1099812/thank-you-pcgs
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1100633/help-please
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One more just because it is another Rick Snow bash.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1100340/rick-snow-recovery-fund
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Well, it appears I've been smeckeldorfed, bamboozled and hoodwinked.
peacockcoins
I see no reason to insult Mr. Snow just because you don't like his price or description.
Wow, you must be exhausted!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.
If the post is accurate, I’d guess that someone buying the 67+, mistakenly thinking it to be the highest graded, would care.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I see what you did there... what you're really saying is, "that's Not good business ethics.."
Shrewd.
🤔
Yes. The point of the meme wasn’t that there aren’t any people that care about the top pop steel cents. Rather, the point was:
Stop making these threads bashing Mr. Snow. We know you’ve made like 8 alt accounts!!!
…. Yes mark I know the meme could’ve conveyed that better.
😝
BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.
And here's the HA page for the MS68 lot:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/lincoln-cents/1943-2-s-1c-doubled-die-obverse-fs-101-ms68-pcgs-pcgs-37822-/a/1371-3175.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
No need to go far .
You see it here sometimes in BST where a seller conveniently lists the sale price ( PCGS Auction Archives ) of a few examples that sold for high $ , but not the others that sold for much less than what he/she is selling their coin for .
Sometimes they will even uses outdated sales data ( PCGS auction archives ) , withholding current lower selling prices .
SMH.
Removed - wrong thread. See MFeld's question below.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
How did this thread cost you anywhere near that much time?🫢
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
'> @MFeld said:
Oops. I thought I was posting to the "my 86 year old dad's Grant Star" thread.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
In that case, I’ll change my question to: How did that thread cost you anywhere near so little time?
😀
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I believe this coin and its ethics have been debated twice, at length, on this forum.
Coin Photographer.
All good (?) rants come in threes…
Do you want us to just discuss numismatics?!?!?!?!
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Another weirdly “off” weekend for our forum. Anyway, eating popcorn right now…and got plenty left! 😂
Setting aside the OP's reputation, the the $17,500 asking price for the EERC coin and the $10,000 ebay sale for an MS67 (from 10/22) do seem to be significantly higher (by multiples of 5 to 8) than the current market prices for MS67 or MS67+ examples, based on PCGS price guide and other recent sales.
Hey! I'm not EJ. I don't know whether I can prove that statement unless you all will accept my beautiful wife's sworn (and witnessed) affidavit.
Do I still get $50.?
The wife is always the last to know...
It's a pretty thin market. But, that said, if you don't like the price then don't buy the coin. I'm not sure any more than that needs to be said. The OP simply has a problem with Rick Snow.
Understood. Plus anyone seeking such a coin probably knows the market.
It's still posted:
This listing isn’t just riddled with misleading hype and absolute bullshit. It’s full of bald face lies.
Quotes from the listing:
“This is the finest known example” - No, it’s not! And he knows it.
“All of the examples graded MS67+ by PCGS have issues which makes them lesser quality to this piece, so this is the finest known example” - Aside from the asinity of this statement and, the fact that at best it’d no more than the opinion of a proven liar, it’d require Mr. self-proclaimed “Knowledge, Fairness, Integrity” Snow seeing all the 67+ examples ever graded at PCGS. Since he’s never seen either of mine this statement is rooted in…you guessed it….bullshit!
The entire second paragraph is simply retarded. However the last line of “This means that the population is already at its peak and that this is the finest now, and will remain the finest” is not only absolute bullshit but a bald face lie.
“There are no flaws, strike-throughs or white spots” immediately followed by “There is a small tick to the left of the T in CENT” so according to Mr. “Knowledge, Fairness, Integrity” Snow, a “tick” is no longer a “flaw”.
But now…for the real brain bender…
Mr. “Knowledge, Fairness and Integrity” Snow states that this tick (not a flaw) “might be the only thing that keeps it from a MS68 grade, which, I believe, would be a $100,000 coin. Only 6 examples are graded MS67+, none higher”.
Over 5 months ago, On January 10, 2024 this MS68 example sold in a Heritage auction (lot #3175) for $5,760!
Mr. “Knowledge, Fairness and Integrity” Snow was made aware of this not long after the Heritage auction. Yet he still chooses to publish this misleading, greed-based attempt to dupe the uneducated.
Exponentially more disturbing than the complete lack of integrity displayed by Mr. “Knowledge, Fairness and Integrity” Snow is the “blind eye” and support he receives from some of the dealer network of numismatics.
Quite some time ago there was a post on the PCGS forum that exposed this listing and the Heritage sale of the MS68 example. Yet even in the face of graphic proof of bald face lies and complete lack of integrity there were dealers and even collectors that supported Mr. “Knowledge, Fairness and Integrity” Snow and attacked the author of the post. Even though all the author did was publish the tangible, proven, publicly published facts. It was a very graphic and disturbing example of the lack of ethics and integrity among certain dealers in the numismatic business. An example of them turning a blind eye to the truth and supporting lack of respect for collectors just to remain “in the click” of the greed-based money machine.
Personally I think Mr. “Knowledge, Fairness and Integrity” Snow should give up numismatics and buy a boat as his real expertise seems to be assembling fishing expeditions!
We were expecting you yesterday, assuming you must have had prior commitments?
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Nope.
Fool me once. . .
peacockcoins
I can’t believe he’s back again.
@EScott83 , @EScottCoins , @TagTail , @VarietyHunter , @VarietyFan , @KatanaPilot , @Pauly58
God Bless, CRHer700
Do unto others what you expect to be done to you.
Vote for the unofficial king of CU: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1104284/vote-unofficial-king-of-cu#latest
Well there are an enormous number of possible usernames.
Maybe his next one should be @herpes, considering that he just keeps coming back?
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I must have gotten under his skin... He stole my avatar 😂
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I was wondering if I was crazy, when I first saw that post I swear I thought it was you and did a double take 😂
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So did I!
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The poster(s)/messenger(s) aside, does everyone think these snippets from the coin’s listing (linked below) are OK?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/186086635768?itmmeta=01HZB5TJ52CWZVGFQZJMSGCBYX&hash=item2b53a0b8f8:g:Y9cAAOSwN1xkbVER&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAAwFj/lL+d6B3K57ym7sQoB71/A4B+qz/U1+U3ILXnZMQuTK4OMrLcec+EvWdxD5lr3VKLNzAF0nEGS6abepJGzHEiBrLwjO9l8mCoS4UQIJ4k85ycbHYjBsgP5v9lHwlBczseWENfCfeQhOKhFcsuV0612cbKvp1vnHuAo2WxZHLfPpYlfhH2u+Xtxss7KjqzDRXigoYl/RM6jUa7fOLCcWmkk9YuF1BMqlkAZfg74aQwEcDdrwMVWMr0N5KCSaGVGQ==|tkp:Bk9SR9yi6uX6Yw
“This is the finest known example”
or
“…might be the only thing that keeps it from a MS68 grade, which, I believe, would be a $100,000 coin. Only 6 examples are graded MS67+, none higher”.
or
“Recently a MS67 example sold for $10,000 on eBay. That is probably cheap for the grade”
I ask because of this auction result:
What am I missing in being surprised that a listing of this type seems to be getting a free pass? I’d really like to know, as that might make me feel a lot better about it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don’t think it’s OK.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Mark , I share your sentiment but I was trying not to make waves. I feel like I’m the bartender in this scene from one of my favorite movies-
“This happens every week, but this guys actually pretty good.”
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I see that Rick Snow was recently logged on here. He’s almost certainly aware or this thread and if so, perhaps he’ll participate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It's a buyer beware world out there, but agreed. I'm guessing if this coin was consigned to Heritage it wouldn't have the same wording.
Regardless of the intentions or history of the OP, the descriptives in the listing are misleading at best.
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