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Heritage to auction over 1,500 cancelled U.S. coin dies
Byers
Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
1,563 NGC cancelled 1994-D Cent, Dime & Quarter coin dies to be auctioned by Heritage:
(No- they are not mine)
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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Fred finally cleaned up his garage?
As some of you are aware, Heritage has previously auctioned a group of 200 NGC cancelled coin dies:
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/10067/
This group is not mine- they were sold previously
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Can't say I've ever seen a slabbed die before, funny to think about. I don't see any earlier type dies, looks to be all modern low denomination. Many of the same date.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
I looked a couple on their website but they're just side pics.
Does anyone know if the die face is ground smooth or if they're canceled like this:
I suppose it never occurred to them to do something like an old ANACS Photo Certificate?
interesting to see how the market absorbs this hoard. If it is mostly the defaced dies you can get for $20-$40 on eBay, it won't even cover boxing cost and then Heritages $29? minimum buyers premium.
Those Olympic dies with a nice X over face still seem to get $400-$600 and more for the 'rare' ones
Is there any distinguishing characteristic between dies? If not, are the prices going to drop over the course of the auction as everyone who wants one gets one? It seems that there are over 1500 lots of just three distinct items, which doesn't make for a normal variety seen in an auction.
The defaced state quarters have no detail but when they come with a coin they can have some true gems.
Sometimes the printed catalog will have a blurb about the collection. I wish that info was available online. Or if it is available online, I wish it was easier to find.
I'm guessing they are all ground flat based on the NGC label description.
If they are ground flat then what’s the point? (Serious question)
Thanks
Martin
The die on the right is a US Nickel die from 1998 that's defaced by being ground flat. The die on the left is a US Dime die from the 1960s that's defaced by being torched.
Here is a unique obv/rev set of U.S. Mercury Dime dies. I purchased them raw out of Heritage and then had NGC slab them:
It's still a Mint used die.
It's not my thing, but the interesting part was defaced.
People will collect most things, some have an interest in these.
Well that is super cool
No wonder Phil went to GC - he saw that mind numbing job coming up!
It's an artifact, defaced of not. People collect the original canvas bags even when the coins are gone. People collect the original boxes for classic commems even when the coins are gone. It's an artifact which, if not defaced would have been recycled as scrap metal and lost.
Considering that he didn't work for NGC or Heritage, I don't believe he would have had any such job coming up.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Is it still a die if the design is totally ground off? Is it still a car after it's crushed into a cube?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Sure, why not? It's a crushed car and a defaced die. You just need the adjective.
Are those actually canceled, or were they just too lightly impressed and then discarded?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Car destruction=Value destruction
Do they have any X cancelled dies like mine ?
The Olympics from 95 & 96 are my favorites. No slab tube thingy needed. Pretty obvious what you are buying/bidding on.
Andy-
According to Heritage Auctions-
“ The die faces were smoothly effaced rather than crudely cancelled or defaced as often seen on discarded and obsolete Mint dies.”
Dave Camire from NGC told me that they were definitely cancelled, and are the only Mercury Dime Dies in private hands that he is aware of.
Just for comparison, this is the 1872-CC $20 Liberty obverse die once owned by Fred Weinberg sold by Bowers in 2012 for $9,500 plus the juice.
Actually, the vertical die crack through Liberty's neck proves that the die was at one point good enough to be used in production.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Andy- you are correct!
@Byers that crack might also help you find an example of a dime minted by that die. Which would be very cool.
Yes, it’s cool to match a die with a coin!
Still trying to match this one:
Huge reverse die crack through the wing.
Do dies of a particular coin type break in the same place? I've seen two Mercury dimes with a break through the neck.
I guess that is the point.
I’m a pack rat and can’t throw much of anything away. No way I’d buy something like that. If some one gave me a few I’d be hard pressed to throw them out. Just because……we’ll just because as soon as I did, I’d find a use for them.
Now the Morgan’s with a cross through them that is totally a different thing. Those are very cool to me
Martin
The parallel lines on the cancelled Mercury Dime die suggest (maybe prove) that the design was ground off, rather than a weak impression.
I used an "UNC" 1996 $5 reverse die for my 2016 Open House token:
A small antique dealer discovered this $20 1882 Obverse Die in an old estate. I purchased it.
Fred Weinberg authenticated it in a letter.
The interesting thing is…
In his letter he references the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Denver cancelled dies that he handled.
Obviously this hoard being auctioned by Heritage originated from Fred years ago.
https://ngccoin.com/certlookup/
Type in the verification number and select other, then obverse or reverse image can be seen.
From my Hawaiiana collection.
https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4930365-002/Other/
Very cool Hawaii 50C obv/rev dies!
Martha Washington Obverse Die
Used to Strike Half Dollar
Experimental Test Pieces
for U.S. Judd #2131
NGC Certified & Encapsulated
ONLY 2 KNOWN IN PRIVATE HANDS
it is great that all these nice dies are being shown, but as far as I can tell the Heritage auction just has ground off moderns.
Shouldn't /wouldn't an uncancelled die still be property of the Mint?
This is my 1968 Proof Washington Quarter torched die.
A little more detail than most.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Is there a reverse die in private hands that is also uncanceled ?
And if so,
I was to see the Heritage catalog. Only Dies from Denver 1994. Not interesting for me.
The Mint from end of 1999 grind all the dies and sel in set with one of the first 20 acceptable strike coin, with certificate.(somebody post the photo here before) I can not pronounce how many sets by coins denomination sell, but IMHO not more then 2 sets by coin.
Me I have one set from 2001 receive gift from the Mint in Denver when the V2 of the horisontal Shuller preses upgrage was installed and this because the production director see me looking at this set in the store, waiting the rest of the teams from Germany finish theirs verifications and tests.
I think the price was something like 79.99$.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
Chris- the only known reverse die in private hands and certified by NGC is my Cent size reverse die:
Martha Washington Reverse Die
Used to Strike 1 Cent
Experimental Test Pieces
for U.S. Judd #2180
NGC Certified & Encapsulated
UNIQUE IN PRIVATE HANDS
The U.S. Mint tested new designs and compositions in 1965, 1982, 1999 and in other years as well.
In 1999 the U.S. Mint sent the Martha Washington Dies to (3) private firms located in the U.S. and to (2) private firms in Germany to strike test pieces in these new compositions and designs.
No attempt was made to recover these dies. The U.S. Mint is aware that a few are in private hands.
Extensive reporting and articles regarding the Martha Washington test pieces and dies have been published in the last 25 years.
CoinWorld, US Patterns, Mint Error News, Mike Byers ( that’s me) and other publications detailed the test strikings by these dies.
I ordered one of the State Quarter with die sets for my State' quarter. Hoped it would have at least a portion of the design but was just ground down like shown in a post above. I may have returned it but it could still be around somewhere.
Interesting info here, thanks for posting it
boston
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