Mike if you know the German companies, please send me the names. I will try to have at least one of the testing metals coins strike.
After 2000 the Mint use the Royal Mint and Germany Mint to test the metal compositions and the different dies metal and preparation. No one sell samples or dies.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN
Schuler in Germany is one of the 2 companies. I have been there with another ‘coin dealer’. He was able to get us a VIP private tour.
They had 2 Martha Washington Dies. It was one of the numismatic highlights of my trip overseas.
I don’t know the name of the other German Company that also struck Martha Washington test pieces.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Thanks Mike,
I will contact them for. If was in 1999 probably I will can have in 2029. I know them relative verywell. I was with them from the V1 till V4 instalation of the production lines here. Hope my brother will help me have a sample. I do not think they will give away the Dies, but a try it is a try.
Thanks again.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN
Does anyone here that owns genuine mint dies use a light coat of oil to prevent rust?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
despite a certified mint used die, i wouldn't bid unless there were design details left. even just an X. heritage shows none of the defaced face, I wouldn't bid.
@MsMorrisine said:
despite a certified mint used die, i wouldn't bid unless there were design details left. even just an X. heritage shows none of the defaced face, I wouldn't bid.
Images of the faces are available if you click through to the NGC pictures. I looked at a few. I can't say that you're missing much.
@BStrauss3 said:
The killer is that a $1 bid has a $30 bp and shipping.
If it's not worth $40 to you, don't bid.
It's not, I won't, and I never said I would.
I'm more interested in the very limited interest shown in this "Showcase Auction". HA generally uses Signature Auctions for higher value or important pedigrees. Showcase is their mid-tier, more than their routine actions. This seems like a pile of 1500+ items of limited interest, all at once which tends to depress the values.
We often tell people to avoid auction fever, for most of us, coins (in our price range / interest categories) are like busses - miss one, and another will be along in a little while.
This is more the opposite (as a city child, I grew up morally certain busses were afraid to travel by themselves - that's why you wait 10 minutes without a bus coming by and then three show up all at once).
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I would rather spend my money on the coin not the defaced die. The dies that have detail however are most desirable. A hunk of metal with a serial number has little context thus no interest to me..
I bought about 20 of them so far. I think the Mint would have been better served just selling them for $30 on their website. The bids are not generally getting over $3.
It seems that a retail offering at $15 or $20 (shipped) for a raw die would have created more revenue for the seller. Heck, I might even have bought a couple.
I guess the lure of big money for "tubed" dies was too attractive.
@BStrauss3 said:
Sadly, between grading costs and buyer's premiums, the consigner would have received more as scrap steel.
Possibly. It's hard to know what their deal was with Heritage.
It was a somewhat embarrassing result, however. That's for sure.
I consider it a good example of wisdom we try to pass on to new collectors.
It's not enough that something is rare, it has to be rare relative to the number of people interested in the object.
Personally, I think it would be kind of cool to have a hunk of die steel on my desk as a paperweight. Not $40 cool, but cool. And not plastic tomb cool.
I have a piece of rail here for that use - when they were repairing the rail near the house, they needed to slice off about 5/8" to give enough room to weld the pieces together and - as railroads do - they dumped the slice along the tracks. Picked it up, lightly polished it, coated it with some poly, and poof - paperweight.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@JBK said:
It seems that a retail offering at $15 or $20 (shipped) for a raw die would have created more revenue for the seller. Heck, I might even have bought a couple.
I guess the lure of big money for "tubed" dies was too attractive.
As they say, "buy the die, not the tube".
Keep in mind they sold 200+ from Fred for over $100 each less than 2 years ago. I think there were a number of ways to get better results.
It would be interesting to know what alloy was used for these dies. I would expect they were annealed before defacing. We used to outsource die fabrication for titanium forgings, which were very expensive because of the machining time needed for the die alloy.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
@JBK said:
It seems that a retail offering at $15 or $20 (shipped) for a raw die would have created more revenue for the seller. Heck, I might even have bought a couple.
I guess the lure of big money for "tubed" dies was too attractive.
As they say, "buy the die, not the tube".
Keep in mind they sold 200+ from Fred for over $100 each less than 2 years ago. I think there were a number of ways to get better results.
Yes, that was the "lure" I was alluding to. I assume they were expecting and obviously hoping for a similar result.
Auctioning 1500 dies all at once seems like a precarious proposition to me. They were obviously overly optimistic, to put it mildly.
@JBK said:
It seems that a retail offering at $15 or $20 (shipped) for a raw die would have created more revenue for the seller. Heck, I might even have bought a couple.
I guess the lure of big money for "tubed" dies was too attractive.
As they say, "buy the die, not the tube".
Keep in mind they sold 200+ from Fred for over $100 each less than 2 years ago. I think there were a number of ways to get better results.
Yes, that was the "lure" I was alluding to. I assume they were expecting and obviously hoping for a similar result.
Auctioning 1500 dies all at once seems like a precarious proposition to me. They were obviously overly optimistic, to put it mildly.
I agree. That auction started early and went on forever. Just auctioning then in multiple smaller groups would likely have yielded much better results.
Auctioning them in denomination sets would have also yielded better results.
And, of course, selling them as a fixed price offering would have allowed control of pricing.
JMO but the whole thing seems like a complete embarrassment to me. With their astronomical BP I doubt HA lost money. The real victim appears to be the consignor. Note to self….
I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
@fathom said:
Hmm....I do need some door stops for my sho> @EXOJUNKIE said:
JMO but the whole thing seems like a complete embarrassment to me. With their astronomical BP I doubt HA lost money. The real victim appears to be the consignor. Note to self….
Even HA might have lost money. They may have given a premium out guarantee to the consignor. They may hand paid for the slabbing.
Comments
Mike if you know the German companies, please send me the names. I will try to have at least one of the testing metals coins strike.
After 2000 the Mint use the Royal Mint and Germany Mint to test the metal compositions and the different dies metal and preparation. No one sell samples or dies.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
@silviosi
Schuler in Germany is one of the 2 companies. I have been there with another ‘coin dealer’. He was able to get us a VIP private tour.
They had 2 Martha Washington Dies. It was one of the numismatic highlights of my trip overseas.
I don’t know the name of the other German Company that also struck Martha Washington test pieces.
Thanks Mike,
I will contact them for. If was in 1999 probably I will can have in 2029. I know them relative verywell. I was with them from the V1 till V4 instalation of the production lines here. Hope my brother will help me have a sample. I do not think they will give away the Dies, but a try it is a try.
Thanks again.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
At the risk of thread hijacking, I've recently added to my 1995-1996 Olympic $5 set.
1995 die pair (obverse/reverse) proof Torch Runner / proof reverse
1995 die pair (obverse/reverse) uncirculated Stadium / uncirculated reverse
1996 die pair (obverse/reverse) proof Lighting the Flame / proof reverse
I also agree with a previous poster's sentiment that slabbing/tubing these dies aren't needed.
The value proposition isn't there.
My complete set of $1 Olympic proof dies has been posted elsewhere.
the auction is live closing in 16 days
.
In lieu of "slabbing" them, a good way to house those dies is to use US Mint Silver Eagle tubes - the dies fit perfectly.
.
Does anyone here that owns genuine mint dies use a light coat of oil to prevent rust?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Auction closes tomorrow - if you want a NGC die box here is your chance, less than 300 have bids now
The killer is that a $1 bid has a $30 bp and shipping.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
despite a certified mint used die, i wouldn't bid unless there were design details left. even just an X. heritage shows none of the defaced face, I wouldn't bid.
If it's not worth $40 to you, don't bid.
duplicate
Images of the faces are available if you click through to the NGC pictures. I looked at a few. I can't say that you're missing much.
It's not, I won't, and I never said I would.
I'm more interested in the very limited interest shown in this "Showcase Auction". HA generally uses Signature Auctions for higher value or important pedigrees. Showcase is their mid-tier, more than their routine actions. This seems like a pile of 1500+ items of limited interest, all at once which tends to depress the values.
We often tell people to avoid auction fever, for most of us, coins (in our price range / interest categories) are like busses - miss one, and another will be along in a little while.
This is more the opposite (as a city child, I grew up morally certain busses were afraid to travel by themselves - that's why you wait 10 minutes without a bus coming by and then three show up all at once).
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I would rather spend my money on the coin not the defaced die. The dies that have detail however are most desirable. A hunk of metal with a serial number has little context thus no interest to me..
I bought about 20 of them so far. I think the Mint would have been better served just selling them for $30 on their website. The bids are not generally getting over $3.
I checked this morning and all lots had at least $1 opening bid. That is what many are going for now (+$29 bp + shipping)
I checked and it said that lot number didn't exist.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I wonder what NGC charged per die to encapsulate them? Going for $2 to $7 each mostly must be a massive disappointment to all involved.
I got a few, will be great stocking stuffers!
Every now and then, one goes for $100. I can't figure out why.
Are they all selling tomorrow? Some people above say they've already bought them.
They’re all selling today.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Very odd result.
When Fred's similar collection sold, they almost all sold for over $100.
I do, for dies of interest that I want to store longer-term.
A low-humidity storage environment is also important.
I do find my invoice kind of funny
what are you going to do with 66 of them?
Sell them
Sadly, between grading costs and buyer's premiums, the consigner would have received more as scrap steel.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Possibly. It's hard to know what their deal was with Heritage.
It was a somewhat embarrassing result, however. That's for sure.
These are normal sold by error coin dealers.
As a error coin dealer, I have zero interest in the very common.
I bid on zero and won zero.
The result was very predictable.
After fierce bidding I won a dime die for $2 hammer, before the 1450% buyers fee was added
If there were 1500 of them for just one year, how many more are there out there for other years.
They don't generally save them.
That's a very different point
It seems that a retail offering at $15 or $20 (shipped) for a raw die would have created more revenue for the seller. Heck, I might even have bought a couple.
I guess the lure of big money for "tubed" dies was too attractive.
As they say, "buy the die, not the tube".
I consider it a good example of wisdom we try to pass on to new collectors.
It's not enough that something is rare, it has to be rare relative to the number of people interested in the object.
Personally, I think it would be kind of cool to have a hunk of die steel on my desk as a paperweight. Not $40 cool, but cool. And not plastic tomb cool.
I have a piece of rail here for that use - when they were repairing the rail near the house, they needed to slice off about 5/8" to give enough room to weld the pieces together and - as railroads do - they dumped the slice along the tracks. Picked it up, lightly polished it, coated it with some poly, and poof - paperweight.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Keep in mind they sold 200+ from Fred for over $100 each less than 2 years ago. I think there were a number of ways to get better results.
It would be interesting to know what alloy was used for these dies. I would expect they were annealed before defacing. We used to outsource die fabrication for titanium forgings, which were very expensive because of the machining time needed for the die alloy.
Yes, that was the "lure" I was alluding to. I assume they were expecting and obviously hoping for a similar result.
Auctioning 1500 dies all at once seems like a precarious proposition to me. They were obviously overly optimistic, to put it mildly.
I agree. That auction started early and went on forever. Just auctioning then in multiple smaller groups would likely have yielded much better results.
Auctioning them in denomination sets would have also yielded better results.
And, of course, selling them as a fixed price offering would have allowed control of pricing.
Hmm....I do need some door stops for my shop.
JMO but the whole thing seems like a complete embarrassment to me. With their astronomical BP I doubt HA lost money. The real victim appears to be the consignor. Note to self….
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
Even HA might have lost money. They may have given a premium out guarantee to the consignor. They may hand paid for the slabbing.
maybe HA bought them and tried to flip them
🤔
Now THAT would be interesting.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
they would never have put them ALL in one auction
Have you gotten your hoard yet? Mine is shipping today
It has been a few years, but I remember NGC fees for mint dies as something near $60 for cancelled and $350 for uncancelled.
I guarantee you they got a cheaper rate for these. I'd guess $20-$25 ea tops. Pure speculation though.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."