Lighting struck - theft
Herb_T
Posts: 1,733 ✭✭✭✭✭
I never expected to put a post like this up on the forum. Theft always happens to someone else.
In December I sent via US REGISTERED MAIL two NGC slabbed coins for crossover to PCGS as well as 12 CBH raw coins for PCGS grading. It’s not unusual for Registered Mail through my local PO to take as long as 4 weeks to get to PCGS. So I called my local PO to see if they could find out where my package was. They told me that the PO was aware of my package and were investigating.
Today I got a call from my local PO that told me to submit a claim as the Office of Inspector General (OIG) had taken over the investigation and said for me to submit a claim. So it seems that I will get some compensation, but not nearly enough. I wont ship again during late November or December. The PO hires temporary help and I’m guessing that was the issue….I won’t ever know because OIG doesn’t share that kind of information or results.
The two NGC coins are:
1831 H10C NGC MS62 6834008-008
1838 25C NGC AU53 1719132-013
I know that there is a data base for stolen coins, can someone please submit the two coins above to it?
Comments
That really sucks, you would think that shipping registered mail would be safe.
They have to know the last person that signed for the package, I wouldn't let them off the hook by just filing a claim, that's BS
Don't roll over on this, they just want to blow this off, you can't replace the coins that were STOLEN
Good luck
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
What is the value of your loss?
Sorry to hear of your loss. If not already, put slabbed in a NGC registry set ... it might help recovery if thief keeps the 2 in slabs and they show up a few years down the road. Did you pay extra to insure the USPS did their job without loss or theft?
Good luck on the claim. The PO sucks at paying out the actual value for collectibles.
This is a great idea.
I hope you were "generous" when estimating the declared value of your coins. Sorry for your loss.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Terrible. At least it sounds like its not a total loss.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
They (USPS) just took $133 from me for a registered shipment. They got all the money. My mailman told me he has 6 pallets of Amazon packages to deliver. What's up with that ?
Just had CAC send a shipment back. They edit your declared values. Not Cool!
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Sorry for your loss. This is exactly why I have yet to have any of my raw coins graded and no they are not valuable just hard to come by. I think I will be keeping my coins raw.
Your declared value means nothing. USPS lost a registered package (coin) of mine and I had to "prove" it's value. I provided a statement from @MFeld on Heritage letterhead, and they rejected it. They wanted a copy of the purchase receipt, which I diid not have, so they rejected the claim! Miraculosly, 3 months after I sent it, it showed up at the purchasers door. They are the worst!
If you had a purchaser, then you had a sales price. I have used eBay sales price as 'value' and you should have some sort of invoice/receipt that can be used to establish value. The problem arises when that purchase was 10-30 years ago and even if you have a receipt, values have changed dramatically.
Unfortunately with this shipment I intentionally under valued the RAW coins….total insurance $7,000
Unfortunately 11 of the RAW coins I bought from another member….the 12th coin I am trying to remember where I bought it from…I thought an online auction but I can’t find it on there…still trying to figure out where. Ugh!
At least it wasn’t one of my $50,000 registered mail shipments.
Exactly the kind of crap they will pull.
My purchaser was a board member here who paid with a check. I even had an invoice, which they would not accept. They would also not accept a copy of my bank statement showing the check. They said if I had an electronic payment (PayPal, Venmo) it would have been OK.
Any alternatives guys???
If you're unable to "trust" the USPS registered mail then What?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
The thievery is getting brazen. I viewed USPS registered as slow but very secure.....until now.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
https://numismaticcrimes.org/
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
If I still lived in CA it would be a 70 mile drive to either PCGS or GC, now its a 700 mile drive
Until some of these companies can provide safe shipping to and from I will be hard pressed to ship anything, anywhere
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I feel very bad for OP but one extraordinarily rare incident does not overturn decades of ultra safe deliveries. Registered mail is equally as safe now as it was a week ago and to deduce rampant theft of registered mail from one incident is just fear mongering.
If one wants to ship valuables, there will always be some risk. There is no risk free option just like there are no risk free options for anything in life.
On a semi-related note, I purchased an insurance policy that covers shipping up to $50k. Annually it costs roughly the same as sending 4-5 registered packages. I would encourage anyone who ships coins somewhat frequently to look into a policy of that type.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Yes, adding "another" insurance policy would help to insure the coins, BUT it still will not replace the coins if stolen, some of witch may not be able to be replaced.
And, isn't that what you are paying for with registered mail?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I’m sorry to hear about this. I’m sure I’m not the only person on here who gulps deep and hard when mailing coins. Sadly I doubt the thief will even face any serious punishment when caught. It’s a sad indictment of the times in which we live.
I’m pretty Old Testament when it comes to thieves, criminals, and those who’d break the rest of the Commandments. If I wrote what I really think should happen when a thief is caught, I imagine I’d be banned here in short order.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Private insurance and FeDex for expensive orders if that is the company the insurance company requires to ship with and continue with USPS with orders 1000$ or less. I believe UPS offers up to 2500$ insurance for collectibles. I am so glad my selling days are over.
You need private or 3rd party insurance for both Fedex and UPS, the standard UPS insurance does not cover collectible coins. I believe USPS is the only one where their in house insurance will cover collectible coins and bullion. I've been told that some Fedex/UPS stores do have a 3rd party insurance option that will cover collectibles, but their standard in house insurance does not.
No insurance policy will replace the coins if stolen, but the question is would you rather submit a claim with Hugh Wood, the ANA partnered insurer, or would you rather argue your claim with the government? 😐
Yes, you are paying for insurance when you use registered, but get yourself a HWI policy for a couple hundred bucks a year and then you can rest easy using priority or priority express and not having to wait eons for delivery. You are still able to use registered if it makes you feel comfortable, but i print an $11 pm label with a small flat rate box and I can ship up to 50k without buying additional insurance. As @lermish states, if you ship coins semi frequently its fiscally irresponsible to not have your own policy, especially since that same policy covers your coins at home or in your safety deposit box in addition to transit.
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Oh man @Herb_T that is terrible news! Please send a list of dates and Overton's and any images you have to my email.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Did you go on the usps website and fill out the “Submit a Missing Mail Search Request” form? That online form has found well over a dozen packages for me that were lost for weeks at a time. This form has nothing to do with an insurance claim. You can still file and work through an insurance claim in addition to this missing mail form. They are entirely separate, and go to separate parties in the post office system.
Sorry to hear it. There is always a risk element, even when great care is taken.
Dan
After reading this I will look into getting more information on Hugh Wood policys
If I could mail out a package and be able to sleep that in itself would be worth the cost
thank you
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Why not cool? Let's say CAC ships coins back to you worth $5000 that you valued at $10000. If an insurance claim is paid out and the coins are later recovered, the insurance company will want their $10000 back. With the coins only worth $5000, they'll try to get the rest out of whomever they paid -- CAC in this case. Doing that involves getting back the excess claimed from the submitter that was paid more than the coins are worth. How do you think that'll go?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I receive packages at a keyed neighborhood mail station where packages are left in a room.
I live in a neighborhood whose zip is not contiguous with the major part of the zip which is in the next county. At the end of a long day the carrier skips us.
There is no post office within ten miles, then two at thirty and some at forty plus miles.
We have experienced overwhelming development, my neighborhood has been moved to three different postal districts (from above). I have received package pick-up notices and driven to the previous Post Office because I did not pay attention.
There is a labor shortage here.
We rarely see the same carrier twice. They’re mostly part-time. (They borrow magazines, but it’s good that they read). One of them found two lost items that were churning between distribution stops because of damaged scan codes.
I’m scared to order anything.
I avoid sending or receiving in November and December. In thirty years three packages have failed to arrive. This was a bad season for us, a lot of time on the phone concerning purchases and gifts.
Packages arrive weeks and months late a few time a year.
The values that you guys talk about shipping? Roadtrip in a rented Panamera.
Herb, I hope that your mess works out.
I don't know what's up with that. Strange.
Amazon has been delivering their own packages for a while now.
Pete
I live north of Seattle 80 miles or so, up until about 8 months ago USPS delivered all of Amazon’s parcels, it was overwhelming for the post office and carriers, now Amazon is delivering their own and USPS service has greatly improved.
I started shipping UPS overnight. That's all the stress I'm willing to endure... Seems like UPS treats overnight and 2 day packages with a little more care...
Very sorry to hear about this loss @Herb_T
It just takes one to shake your confidence. That is why I will never allow UPS coin deliveries. Awful experience trying to recover losses on a package one of their employees emptied out prior to delivery.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
So sorry, Herb. What is hardly ever discussed when speaking of filing claims is how to evaluate a raw coin for the insurance value consideration. I know of no method that insures any fair amount. It's scary. If anyone knows of a method that would help I would appreciate it.
The word 'Safe' no longer has meaning in the shipping world, regardless of method. Stop and think about it, what more does a thief need than the shipping label address to determine which packages to steal.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Who has a policy like the one you mention?> @1madman said:
OIG has said to submit the claim. There is more going on here than meets the eye. Could be they have recovered the missing items but need them as evidence for prosecution. My PO didn’t know, only were passing along what OIG told them to tell me.
Sent
This is where I got my policy. I am sure there are other options as well.
https://hwinternational.com/us/industries/fine-art-collectibles/fine-art-collection-insurance/coins-numicatics-paper-money/
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
You will get fair market value you just have to give proof of value. And you will likely be limited to your Declared Value. Big shipment of high value coins is best sent in multiple registered shipments.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
A few years back my postman, letter carrier, whatever decided that I had moved and my mail stopped, Registered, Signature, everything. I had purchased 6 Quarter Eagles for a set I was putting together, 3 packages, 2 coins each. Somehow this person had figured out what I was receiving in the mail. After not receiving the insured Priority Mail package after two days past the delivery date I went down to the post office and spoke with the postmaster. She went to the carriers desk and found my packages. He had been keeping the mail he deemed worth stealing from me and others and then when no one complained he just kept whatever he held back. Long story short, he was an extra hire, for the holidays and a parolee who became a parolee without a job. This was the only time I have had issues with USPS or any other carrier.
We just got a bunch of xmas cards returned to sender back. Addresses all correct. Wifey wrote the names/addys in cursive, only thing we can think of why they weren't delivered.
I just has a shipment from CACG. I used their values in their price guide when I filled out their submission form. No changes in declared value by them................
Best, SH
If you had not done so ... considering to file a Police Report as well ... you can make the case that they may have been stolen with in the USPS system.
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
Sent> @retirednow said:
They were, that’s why the OIG is involved. There is no dispute.
We are in Maui right now so unfortunately I missed a phone call from a Special Agent with the Office of Inspector General with the USPS. He has some questions to ask me.
After I speak with him I will post here again.
Source: https://www.cacgrading.com/pricing
Since I use the same values as CAC, you are quoting this to the wrong person and indeed I can read the fine print when I make my values..............
I spoke with the Special Agent today. Because it was mailed Registered Mail he was following up on it as they take Registered Mail seriously, at least the Cleveland Zone does. He wanted to know package dimensions, easy to provide as I use the PCGS plastic 20 slab boxes and the mailing box that it fits in. I wrap the box in fiberglass reinforced mailing tape.
He agreed that the box could still show up at PCGS as stranger things have happened. So for a bit longer I am going to hold off submitting the insurance claim.