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Lighting struck - theft

Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

I never expected to put a post like this up on the forum. Theft always happens to someone else.

In December I sent via US REGISTERED MAIL two NGC slabbed coins for crossover to PCGS as well as 12 CBH raw coins for PCGS grading. It’s not unusual for Registered Mail through my local PO to take as long as 4 weeks to get to PCGS. So I called my local PO to see if they could find out where my package was. They told me that the PO was aware of my package and were investigating.

Today I got a call from my local PO that told me to submit a claim as the Office of Inspector General (OIG) had taken over the investigation and said for me to submit a claim. So it seems that I will get some compensation, but not nearly enough. I wont ship again during late November or December. The PO hires temporary help and I’m guessing that was the issue….I won’t ever know because OIG doesn’t share that kind of information or results.

The two NGC coins are:

1831 H10C NGC MS62 6834008-008

1838 25C NGC AU53 1719132-013

I know that there is a data base for stolen coins, can someone please submit the two coins above to it?

«1

Comments

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 503 ✭✭✭✭

    What is the value of your loss?

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry to hear of your loss. If not already, put slabbed in a NGC registry set ... it might help recovery if thief keeps the 2 in slabs and they show up a few years down the road. Did you pay extra to insure the USPS did their job without loss or theft?

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good luck on the claim. The PO sucks at paying out the actual value for collectibles.

  • nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    Sorry to hear of your loss. If not already, put slabbed in a NGC registry set ... it might help recovery if thief keeps the 2 in slabs and they show up a few years down the road.

    This is a great idea.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hope you were "generous" when estimating the declared value of your coins. Sorry for your loss.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Terrible. At least it sounds like its not a total loss.

    BHNC #248 … 103 and counting.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,743 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They (USPS) just took $133 from me for a registered shipment. They got all the money. My mailman told me he has 6 pallets of Amazon packages to deliver. What's up with that ?

  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    I hope you were "generous" when estimating the declared value of your coins. Sorry for your loss.

    Just had CAC send a shipment back. They edit your declared values. Not Cool!

    BHNC #248 … 103 and counting.

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2024 1:25PM

    Sorry for your loss. This is exactly why I have yet to have any of my raw coins graded and no they are not valuable just hard to come by. I think I will be keeping my coins raw.

    Interest: Latin American history & coins with an emphasis on colonial coinage from Mexico & Peru

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • liefgoldliefgold Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    I hope you were "generous" when estimating the declared value of your coins. Sorry for your loss.

    Your declared value means nothing. USPS lost a registered package (coin) of mine and I had to "prove" it's value. I provided a statement from @MFeld on Heritage letterhead, and they rejected it. They wanted a copy of the purchase receipt, which I diid not have, so they rejected the claim! Miraculosly, 3 months after I sent it, it showed up at the purchasers door. They are the worst!

    liefgold
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @liefgold said:

    @PerryHall said:
    I hope you were "generous" when estimating the declared value of your coins. Sorry for your loss.

    Your declared value means nothing. USPS lost a registered package (coin) of mine and I had to "prove" it's value. I provided a statement from @MFeld on Heritage letterhead, and they rejected it. They wanted a copy of the purchase receipt, which I diid not have, so they rejected the claim! Miraculosly, 3 months after I sent it, it showed up at the purchasers door. They are the worst!

    If you had a purchaser, then you had a sales price. I have used eBay sales price as 'value' and you should have some sort of invoice/receipt that can be used to establish value. The problem arises when that purchase was 10-30 years ago and even if you have a receipt, values have changed dramatically.

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobertScotLover said:
    What is the value of your loss?

    Unfortunately with this shipment I intentionally under valued the RAW coins….total insurance $7,000

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunately 11 of the RAW coins I bought from another member….the 12th coin I am trying to remember where I bought it from…I thought an online auction but I can’t find it on there…still trying to figure out where. Ugh!

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At least it wasn’t one of my $50,000 registered mail shipments.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @liefgold said:

    @PerryHall said:
    I hope you were "generous" when estimating the declared value of your coins. Sorry for your loss.

    Your declared value means nothing. USPS lost a registered package (coin) of mine and I had to "prove" it's value. I provided a statement from @MFeld on Heritage letterhead, and they rejected it. They wanted a copy of the purchase receipt, which I diid not have, so they rejected the claim! Miraculosly, 3 months after I sent it, it showed up at the purchasers door. They are the worst!

    Exactly the kind of crap they will pull.

  • liefgoldliefgold Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you had a purchaser, then you had a sales price. I have used eBay sales price as 'value' and you should have some sort of invoice/receipt that can be used to establish value. The problem arises when that purchase was 10-30 years ago and even if you have a receipt, values have changed dramatically.

    My purchaser was a board member here who paid with a check. I even had an invoice, which they would not accept. They would also not accept a copy of my bank statement showing the check. They said if I had an electronic payment (PayPal, Venmo) it would have been OK.

    liefgold
  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any alternatives guys???
    If you're unable to "trust" the USPS registered mail then What?

  • The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I still lived in CA it would be a 70 mile drive to either PCGS or GC, now its a 700 mile drive :/
    Until some of these companies can provide safe shipping to and from I will be hard pressed to ship anything, anywhere

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:

    @OnlyGoldIsMoney said:

    @alaura22 said:
    Any alternatives guys???
    If you're unable to "trust" the USPS registered mail then What?

    The thievery is getting brazen. I viewed USPS registered as slow but very secure.....until now.

    I feel very bad for OP but one extraordinarily rare incident does not overturn decades of ultra safe deliveries. Registered mail is equally as safe now as it was a week ago and to deduce rampant theft of registered mail from one incident is just fear mongering.

    If one wants to ship valuables, there will always be some risk. There is no risk free option just like there are no risk free options for anything in life.

    On a semi-related note, I purchased an insurance policy that covers shipping up to $50k. Annually it costs roughly the same as sending 4-5 registered packages. I would encourage anyone who ships coins somewhat frequently to look into a policy of that type.

    Yes, adding "another" insurance policy would help to insure the coins, BUT it still will not replace the coins if stolen, some of witch may not be able to be replaced.
    And, isn't that what you are paying for with registered mail?

  • I’m sorry to hear about this. I’m sure I’m not the only person on here who gulps deep and hard when mailing coins. Sadly I doubt the thief will even face any serious punishment when caught. It’s a sad indictment of the times in which we live.

    I’m pretty Old Testament when it comes to thieves, criminals, and those who’d break the rest of the Commandments. If I wrote what I really think should happen when a thief is caught, I imagine I’d be banned here in short order.

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2024 4:48PM

    @alaura22 said:
    Any alternatives guys???
    If you're unable to "trust" the USPS registered mail then What?

    Private insurance and FeDex for expensive orders if that is the company the insurance company requires to ship with and continue with USPS with orders 1000$ or less. I believe UPS offers up to 2500$ insurance for collectibles. I am so glad my selling days are over.

    Interest: Latin American history & coins with an emphasis on colonial coinage from Mexico & Peru

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,490 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh man @Herb_T that is terrible news! Please send a list of dates and Overton's and any images you have to my email.


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did you go on the usps website and fill out the “Submit a Missing Mail Search Request” form? That online form has found well over a dozen packages for me that were lost for weeks at a time. This form has nothing to do with an insurance claim. You can still file and work through an insurance claim in addition to this missing mail form. They are entirely separate, and go to separate parties in the post office system.

  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,895 ✭✭✭✭

    Sorry to hear it. There is always a risk element, even when great care is taken.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pnies20 said:

    @PerryHall said:
    I hope you were "generous" when estimating the declared value of your coins. Sorry for your loss.

    Just had CAC send a shipment back. They edit your declared values. Not Cool!

    Why not cool? Let's say CAC ships coins back to you worth $5000 that you valued at $10000. If an insurance claim is paid out and the coins are later recovered, the insurance company will want their $10000 back. With the coins only worth $5000, they'll try to get the rest out of whomever they paid -- CAC in this case. Doing that involves getting back the excess claimed from the submitter that was paid more than the coins are worth. How do you think that'll go?

  • FrazFraz Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I receive packages at a keyed neighborhood mail station where packages are left in a room.
    I live in a neighborhood whose zip is not contiguous with the major part of the zip which is in the next county. At the end of a long day the carrier skips us.
    There is no post office within ten miles, then two at thirty and some at forty plus miles.
    We have experienced overwhelming development, my neighborhood has been moved to three different postal districts (from above). I have received package pick-up notices and driven to the previous Post Office because I did not pay attention.
    There is a labor shortage here.
    We rarely see the same carrier twice. They’re mostly part-time. (They borrow magazines, but it’s good that they read). One of them found two lost items that were churning between distribution stops because of damaged scan codes.
    I’m scared to order anything.
    I avoid sending or receiving in November and December. In thirty years three packages have failed to arrive. This was a bad season for us, a lot of time on the phone concerning purchases and gifts.
    Packages arrive weeks and months late a few time a year.

    The values that you guys talk about shipping? Roadtrip in a rented Panamera.

    Herb, I hope that your mess works out.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    They (USPS) just took $133 from me for a registered shipment. They got all the money. My mailman told me he has 6 pallets of Amazon packages to deliver. What's up with that ?

    I don't know what's up with that. Strange.

    Amazon has been delivering their own packages for a while now.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • 2windy2fish2windy2fish Posts: 764 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I live north of Seattle 80 miles or so, up until about 8 months ago USPS delivered all of Amazon’s parcels, it was overwhelming for the post office and carriers, now Amazon is delivering their own and USPS service has greatly improved.

  • SametsSamets Posts: 101 ✭✭✭

    I started shipping UPS overnight. That's all the stress I'm willing to endure... Seems like UPS treats overnight and 2 day packages with a little more care...

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very sorry to hear about this loss @Herb_T

    It just takes one to shake your confidence. That is why I will never allow UPS coin deliveries. Awful experience trying to recover losses on a package one of their employees emptied out prior to delivery.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 8,963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So sorry, Herb. What is hardly ever discussed when speaking of filing claims is how to evaluate a raw coin for the insurance value consideration. I know of no method that insures any fair amount. It's scary. If anyone knows of a method that would help I would appreciate it.
    The word 'Safe' no longer has meaning in the shipping world, regardless of method. Stop and think about it, what more does a thief need than the shipping label address to determine which packages to steal.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:

    @OnlyGoldIsMoney said:

    @alaura22 said:
    Any alternatives guys???
    If you're unable to "trust" the USPS registered mail then What?

    The thievery is getting brazen. I viewed USPS registered as slow but very secure.....until now.

    I feel very bad for OP but one extraordinarily rare incident does not overturn decades of ultra safe deliveries. Registered mail is equally as safe now as it was a week ago and to deduce rampant theft of registered mail from one incident is just fear mongering.

    If one wants to ship valuables, there will always be some risk. There is no risk free option just like there are no risk free options for anything in life.

    On a semi-related note, I purchased an insurance policy that covers shipping up to $50k. Annually it costs roughly the same as sending 4-5 registered packages. I would encourage anyone who ships coins somewhat frequently to look into a policy of that type.

    Who has a policy like the one you mention?> @1madman said:

    Did you go on the usps website and fill out the “Submit a Missing Mail Search Request” form? That online form has found well over a dozen packages for me that were lost for weeks at a time. This form has nothing to do with an insurance claim. You can still file and work through an insurance claim in addition to this missing mail form. They are entirely separate, and go to separate parties in the post office system.

    OIG has said to submit the claim. There is more going on here than meets the eye. Could be they have recovered the missing items but need them as evidence for prosecution. My PO didn’t know, only were passing along what OIG told them to tell me.

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    Oh man @Herb_T that is terrible news! Please send a list of dates and Overton's and any images you have to my email.

    Sent

  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Herb_T said:

    @lermish said:

    @OnlyGoldIsMoney said:

    @alaura22 said:
    Any alternatives guys???
    If you're unable to "trust" the USPS registered mail then What?

    The thievery is getting brazen. I viewed USPS registered as slow but very secure.....until now.

    I feel very bad for OP but one extraordinarily rare incident does not overturn decades of ultra safe deliveries. Registered mail is equally as safe now as it was a week ago and to deduce rampant theft of registered mail from one incident is just fear mongering.

    If one wants to ship valuables, there will always be some risk. There is no risk free option just like there are no risk free options for anything in life.

    On a semi-related note, I purchased an insurance policy that covers shipping up to $50k. Annually it costs roughly the same as sending 4-5 registered packages. I would encourage anyone who ships coins somewhat frequently to look into a policy of that type.

    Who has a policy like the one you mention?> @1madman said:

    Did you go on the usps website and fill out the “Submit a Missing Mail Search Request” form? That online form has found well over a dozen packages for me that were lost for weeks at a time. This form has nothing to do with an insurance claim. You can still file and work through an insurance claim in addition to this missing mail form. They are entirely separate, and go to separate parties in the post office system.

    OIG has said to submit the claim. There is more going on here than meets the eye. Could be they have recovered the missing items but need them as evidence for prosecution. My PO didn’t know, only were passing along what OIG told them to tell me.

    This is where I got my policy. I am sure there are other options as well.

    https://hwinternational.com/us/industries/fine-art-collectibles/fine-art-collection-insurance/coins-numicatics-paper-money/

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You will get fair market value you just have to give proof of value. And you will likely be limited to your Declared Value. Big shipment of high value coins is best sent in multiple registered shipments.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • A few years back my postman, letter carrier, whatever decided that I had moved and my mail stopped, Registered, Signature, everything. I had purchased 6 Quarter Eagles for a set I was putting together, 3 packages, 2 coins each. Somehow this person had figured out what I was receiving in the mail. After not receiving the insured Priority Mail package after two days past the delivery date I went down to the post office and spoke with the postmaster. She went to the carriers desk and found my packages. He had been keeping the mail he deemed worth stealing from me and others and then when no one complained he just kept whatever he held back. Long story short, he was an extra hire, for the holidays and a parolee who became a parolee without a job. This was the only time I have had issues with USPS or any other carrier.

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We just got a bunch of xmas cards returned to sender back. Addresses all correct. Wifey wrote the names/addys in cursive, only thing we can think of why they weren't delivered.

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pnies20 said:

    Just had CAC send a shipment back. They edit your declared values. Not Cool!

    I just has a shipment from CACG. I used their values in their price guide when I filled out their submission form. No changes in declared value by them................

    Best, SH


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • retirednowretirednow Posts: 432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you had not done so ... considering to file a Police Report as well ... you can make the case that they may have been stolen with in the USPS system.

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sent> @retirednow said:

    If you had not done so ... considering to file a Police Report as well ... you can make the case that they may have been stolen with in the USPS system.

    They were, that’s why the OIG is involved. There is no dispute.

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @spacehayduke said:

    @Pnies20 said:

    Just had CAC send a shipment back. They edit your declared values. Not Cool!

    I just has a shipment from CACG. I used their values in their price guide when I filled out their submission form. No changes in declared value by them................

    Best, SH


    Source: https://www.cacgrading.com/pricing

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    @spacehayduke said:

    @Pnies20 said:

    Just had CAC send a shipment back. They edit your declared values. Not Cool!

    I just has a shipment from CACG. I used their values in their price guide when I filled out their submission form. No changes in declared value by them................

    Best, SH


    Source: https://www.cacgrading.com/pricing

    Since I use the same values as CAC, you are quoting this to the wrong person and indeed I can read the fine print when I make my values..............


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Herb_T said:
    We are in Maui right now so unfortunately I missed a phone call from a Special Agent with the Office of Inspector General with the USPS. He has some questions to ask me.

    After I speak with him I will post here again.

    I spoke with the Special Agent today. Because it was mailed Registered Mail he was following up on it as they take Registered Mail seriously, at least the Cleveland Zone does. He wanted to know package dimensions, easy to provide as I use the PCGS plastic 20 slab boxes and the mailing box that it fits in. I wrap the box in fiberglass reinforced mailing tape.

    He agreed that the box could still show up at PCGS as stranger things have happened. So for a bit longer I am going to hold off submitting the insurance claim.

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