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If I was the house, and made $7k on your bid, I would include free shipping.
Lakesammman
Posts: 17,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
Wouldn't you?
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
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Fully agree. Even if less than $7000 should include free shipping.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Depends, we talking about truck axles here?
I assumed we were talking one coin. 😁
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
And yet none of them do, because they don't have to. Apparently, people paying 10-20% buyer's premiums are also willing to pay shipping. It all goes into the cost of the coin for them, so there is no reason for an auction house to eat it, even though they certainly can. The same can be said for TPGs, given what they charge non-bulk submitters for an opinion and a slab.
Unfortunately, this is true.
On the other hand, why not turn that $7000 into $7050 instead of $6975?
@ 25% they just might pay for shipping.........nah, they will charge for it.
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
For a $35k coin, what's another buck ?
No truck axles - US Coin Forum.
It's called
American Greed!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I kind of gave up on Heritage (and others) when they kept bumping up the buyers premium. I'll gladly pay the shipping but 20% usually puts the purchase price beyond my comfort zone. I still pop in and try to steal a deal once in a while but too many are willing to press prices higher despite fees so don't expect things to change any time soon..
Mark
I have always been perplexed by the more you spend/buy the more you pay in shipping/postage conundrum….it should be just the opposite…
This
You're just lucky they don't make you come in to pick it up
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
We have become more used to a world of free shipping with things like Amazon and ebay often offering this. However shipping and insurance still costs money. I don't know of any auctioneers that ship free. Or takes no-questions returns as many retailers also do.
I still can’t understand why people are fixated on the buyers premium as a buyer. You can’t afford coins because of the buyers premium, really? Bidders bid a net number!
Latin American Collection
Things could be worse...
I just won an artwork in an auction and the buyer's premium is 31%.
I've opted to drive 2 1/2 hours each way to pick it up because if I have UPS ship it the total cost of fees and shipping would exceed the bid price.
(Luckily I got a good deal on it).
Just like the buyer’s premium, shipping is simply part of the overall cost I look at when determining what I’m willing to pay. The individual components of that cost make no difference.
Smitten with DBLCs.
If you're buying a coin and the BP is 7k it sound sort of petty to be all pissy about a $50 shipping charge.
If I was in a position to buy an item where the buyer’s premium is $7k, I certainly wouldn’t make a tone-deaf post about the comparatively negligible costs to safely deliver it.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
That $7K indicates a $35K purchase - $42K all in. So the 50 smacks for shipping is less than one eighth of one percent of the price. Yet it still has the power to sour the purchase for the buyer.
You agree to the terms and conditions when you bid.
You also have NO IDEA what the auction house made on the coin. If it was a premium coin, they could have given the consignor 110%, 115%, even 120% of the hammer. [Though the latter is very rare. ]
That said, the billing is automatic and handled by computer. They do not review each bill.
Have you ever called and asked? I have. I bought a lot of 100 tiny medieval coins. The software treated them as 100 coins and charged $75 shipping. [8 ounce shipping weight.] I contacted them and they reduced it to $10.79
I was going to spend $40,000 on a coin. But I canceled the bid over $25 in shipping.
Because they can see it. Walmart has a 40% buyers premium but it's hidden so no one complains.
Agree about the net number.. the reason I haven't purchased at Heritage in a number of years... But it IS almost always the added 20% that puts the price over the top and keeps me from raising bids (and winning). Nearly all of my purchases come from local dealers. As you are probably aware, we have a good number of dealers and shows in the Southeast Michigan area.
Mark
Really depends. I source wholesale from Heritage or Stack's. Things do slip through. 2 weeks ago, for example, I bought an ounce of gold for $1870 all in, including shipping. 3 weeks ago I paid $2253 for a comic that I sold to another dealer for $2500 before I even got it.
Like anything, it's all about the price point. Depending on what it is, the dealer you bought it from might have gotten it from Heritage or Stack's.
[Wby is everyone assuming it's HA?]
I agree. Your point is well taken because occasionally something will pass through at a decent price. I've purchased from both Stacks and Heritage in the past with all in prices close to what you mention. I guess it was much easier to find a deal at 15% (Believe it was actually 17.5% on this one). At 20% plus shipping I found I can do better, easier locally. I also get to have the coin in hand which beats website pictures. While it's nothing overly exciting, here's one I can think of that I still own:
Mark
I think everyone agrees that people know up front what the fees are and should bid accordingly. I don't think that's the OP's point. My opinion anyway, the point is that's it petty for the auction house to do it.
It's like if you go buy a new car for 50k and they tack on doc fees, prep fees, paint protection, etc, etc. At some point it makes the customer feel like they're being taken advantage of, even if they know all of that up front.
Modern businesses have lost sight of what it means to provide a good customer service experience.
I agree ...hearing some houses pay 110% or 115% of hammer really puts a crimp on what the auction house got from that lot.
ive heard of that (local pick up only) whatever wercs for you
Nobody is getting 115% of hammer anywhere unless they're a major, major client running 7 figures through regularly. 110% is rare enough and you better have multiple big boy coins to ask for that.
HA wouldn't go a hair over 100% of hammer for me about 3 years ago on a 4 coin, $25,000 consignment, for perspective.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
A free shipping policy is usually given to cultivate or pursue a loyal customer base.
When you are signing up Simpson or Bass you have a captive audience.
Shipping is not free. It costs money.
You bid on an item knowing that shipping is not free.
Why should it be free?
I know a couple of dealers who will do that if you pay them with a check and not a credit card.
Checks seem to be very fashioned these days.
Agreed. I have no problem reimbursing an auction house for actual shipping costs.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Why have free shipping when they know you are going to buy it from them anyway? Given some of the shipping charges, I dare say it's probably another profit center for the auction house.
This!! I often have “discussions” with clients and friends about this issue. It’s not 20% more cost to the buyer. It’s 20% less to the SELLER! We know the fee going in. So for us to buy a coin in auction for $1000, we bid $800. The seller is the one who gets 800, the buyer gets his coin for 1000. Shipping is another issue, that is what it costs to have hired employees to sort and ship the coins. It does seem high, but there is insurance, a whole department of employees, etc. Auctions are better because of it, especially on higher end items.
Truthfully, buyers premium is not an extra charge, it is known beforehand. Figure your bid minus 20% and that is what coins often sell for.
I hate adding a comment right under my own, but I think this deserves merit. As a seller of a coin, if you showed me (a buyer) a recent comp price, and I said, well that sold for 1000, but the seller got 800, would the seller be happy to sell then at 800 instead of 1000. I think that would go “against the grain” more than the 20% buyers fee. But, it’s factually true. Just a thought.
Though this was about shipping more than buyers fee. Sorry to derail the thread a bit.
I've learned in my service business to just put one number down on an invoice and put "includes all parts, materials, labor and warranty". The second I break anything down I get phone calls even though the price is the same no matter how we fill it out.
I'm not criticizing anyone for charging me shipping - the $111 isn't a big deal and I agreed to the terms before bidding - - I'm just saying that's what I would do if I was running the company, in gratitude for your business.
Don't give them any ideas.
Coins bought or any purchased for business are shipping free. In my business plan I cost for that. I ship myself, not a whole group to be paid. Shipping is not a cost that buyers have to worry about with my company. With that said, coin fatigue happens, and after working an auction so hard, just to see that 40 shipping charge….while it makes sense to me later, always “annoying” when I first see it on the bill
He said that the PROFIT was $7K.
True story. On eBay, I used to charge a flat $3 shipping fee (which doesn't even cover 1st class). I thought it would encourage people to pick up an extra little widget since the shipping on the second item was "free". But every now and then I would get complaints about the shipping fee. So I raised all the prices by $3. No one complains, but they are paying the same. I even laughed out loud when someone bought 7 items and thanked me for the "free shipping"; he had paid $21 in shipping, he just didn't know it.
And what would the profit be other than buyer or seller premiums for an auction house?
bid? > @BAJJERFAN said:
How could a winning bidder know how much “PROFIT” his bid brought to the auction house unless he knew the commission rate charged to the seller and how much less the coin would have brought without his bidding participation? My guess is that the “profit” attributed directly to the winning bidder was a small fraction of the stated amount. I’m sure the bid was very much appreciated, regardless of the amount of the profit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don't disagree. I also didn't really say anything different. Bottom line: you can't ever know what the house got unless you are privy to the consignment.
[Note: I'm assuming we're talking about a $35,000 coin here. So that is in the Big Boy category.]
$1000 for an $800 coin is 25% juice. What figure establishes price guide for the coin? The $800 you bid or the $1000 that you ended up paying? If it was an $800 coin then one should have bid $667 in order to get for $800 including 20% juice. As a seller you know going in and accept that a place like Heritage is going to add a fee to the price that your coin hammers for. Maybe you could get more selling it in another venue?
And another thing....
The BP is not "profit". The auction house has expenses and bills to pay.