Received 1 useful PM - they said just pick it up at the next show, free!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
You bid on an item knowing that shipping is not free.
Why should it be free?
Not sure anything should be free, but shipping certainly can be considered part of a house's overhead, and included in the BP, just like staff salaries, utilities, rent, etc. It is charged because people accept paying for it separately, just like they accept 20% BPs, when 10%, 12.5%, 15%, and 17.5% used to be the norm. Nothing is written in stone, including buyers paying shipping fees in addition to BPs.
@Maywood said:
If you're buying a coin and the BP is 7k it sound sort of petty to be all pissy about a $50 shipping charge.
He said that the PROFIT was $7K.
How could a winning bidder know how much “PROFIT” his bid brought to the auction house unless he knew the commission rate charged to the seller and how much less the coin would have brought without his bidding participation? My guess is that the “profit” attributed directly to the winning bidder was a small fraction of the stated amount. I’m sure the bid was very much appreciated, regardless of the amount of the profit.
Well the thread title supposes that the house made $7K . How much they actually made doesn't matter since the figure proposed is $7K. Then again a lot of folks misconstrue the amount of markup as money made, but I don't think the OP is one of them. Maybe the coin is one that the OP sold to the auction house.
@Maywood said:
If you're buying a coin and the BP is 7k it sound sort of petty to be all pissy about a $50 shipping charge.
He said that the PROFIT was $7K.
And what would the profit be other than buyer or seller premiums for an auction house?
How much would a coin have to hammer in order to generate $7K in BP? Looks like around $35K for 20% juice. Hardly unusual.Also the OP may have sold the coin to the auction house so he knows their cost. Does the house charge itself the BP? All we know is that the OP says the house realized $7K profit, but nothing about the source of the profit.
@Maywood said:
If you're buying a coin and the BP is 7k it sound sort of petty to be all pissy about a $50 shipping charge.
He said that the PROFIT was $7K.
How could a winning bidder know how much “PROFIT” his bid brought to the auction house unless he knew the commission rate charged to the seller and how much less the coin would have brought without his bidding participation? My guess is that the “profit” attributed directly to the winning bidder was a small fraction of the stated amount. I’m sure the bid was very much appreciated, regardless of the amount of the profit.
Well the thread title supposes that the house made $7K . How much they actually made doesn't matter since the figure proposed is $7K. Then again a lot of folks misconstrue the amount of markup as money made, but I don't think the OP is one of them. Maybe the coin is one that the OP sold to the auction house.
I’m not sure what “the thread title supposes”. Does it suppose that the auction house netted $7000 on the lot or that it grossed that amount? Or that, as the title suggests, $7000 was made on the OP’s bid?
Regardless of which of those it was, I’d think that to at least some readers, the amount that was actually made could matter - at least for purposes of answering the question whether they’d offer free shipping.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Maywood said:
If you're buying a coin and the BP is 7k it sound sort of petty to be all pissy about a $50 shipping charge.
He said that the PROFIT was $7K.
And what would the profit be other than buyer or seller premiums for an auction house?
How much would a coin have to hammer in order to generate $7K in BP? Looks like around $35K for 20% juice. Hardly unusual.Also the OP may have sold the coin to the auction house so he knows their cost. Does the house charge itself the BP? All we know is that the OP says the house realized $7K profit, but nothing about the source of the profit.
So you think this might have happened: 1) the OP could have sold the coin to the auction house; 2) they later put it up for auction; 3) the OP then bid on the very coin he had sold to them; 4) he bid so high that won it at a $7000 profit for the auction house.
To be fair, I guess that’s not impossible. But I think that’s a bit of a stretch. 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have a strong customer service background from jobs I had when I was a bit younger and for me, if someone buys a coin and I make a decent profit I'll cover the shipping. One could make the argument that an extra 50.00 on a large purchase like that should not matter but it goes both ways with the buyer and seller. IMO from a customer service standpoint it does go far to say 'Don't worry about paying for the shipping, we have it covered for you. Thanks for the business!'.
@Maywood said:
If you're buying a coin and the BP is 7k it sound sort of petty to be all pissy about a $50 shipping charge.
He said that the PROFIT was $7K.
And what would the profit be other than buyer or seller premiums for an auction house?
How much would a coin have to hammer in order to generate $7K in BP? Looks like around $35K for 20% juice. Hardly unusual.Also the OP may have sold the coin to the auction house so he knows their cost. Does the house charge itself the BP? All we know is that the OP says the house realized $7K profit, but nothing about the source of the profit.
So you think this might have happened: 1) the OP could have sold the coin to the auction house; 2) they later put it up for auction; 3) the OP then bid on the very coin he had sold to them; 4) he bid so high that won it at a $7000 profit for the auction house.
To be fair, I guess that’s not impossible. But I think that’s a bit of a stretch. 😉
A lot of stretch. Anyways the OP said they made $7K. How he apparently knew doesn't matter.
@Lakesammman said:
I'm not criticizing anyone for charging me shipping - the $111 isn't a big deal and I agreed to the terms before bidding - - I'm just saying that's what I would do if I was running the company, in gratitude for your business.
I'm sure the people criticizing you for your post HAPPILY pay the hefty shipping fee when it's added to their bill.
@Maywood said:
If you're buying a coin and the BP is 7k it sound sort of petty to be all pissy about a $50 shipping charge.
He said that the PROFIT was $7K.
How could a winning bidder know how much “PROFIT” his bid brought to the auction house unless he knew the commission rate charged to the seller and how much less the coin would have brought without his bidding participation? My guess is that the “profit” attributed directly to the winning bidder was a small fraction of the stated amount. I’m sure the bid was very much appreciated, regardless of the amount of the profit.
Well the thread title supposes that the house made $7K . How much they actually made doesn't matter since the figure proposed is $7K. Then again a lot of folks misconstrue the amount of markup as money made, but I don't think the OP is one of them. Maybe the coin is one that the OP sold to the auction house.
I’m not sure what “the thread title supposes”. Does it suppose that the auction house netted $7000 on the lot or that it grossed that amount? Or that, as the title suggests, $7000 was made on the OP’s bid?
Regardless of which of those it was, I’d think that to at least some readers, the amount that was actually made could matter - at least for purposes of answering the question whether they’d offer free shipping.
If the OP's bid was enough to win the auction then the house made the $7K on both, no? I suppose it wouldn't hurt the house to offer an occasional freebie to their best customers, but IMO if you've got big bucks for a coin you can afford the postage. From what I've learned in my time it's that the ones who complain the most about such things are the ones least likely to need the gratuity.
I do think that shipping should be at cost and not necessarily a profit center, but that's me.
ETA: My last Heritage win was in 2018; coin + juice was $220 +44 for $264. S & H was $13 or about 5%. IIRC flat rate envelopes were an undiscounted $4.95 so that's about $8 for handling; printing an invoice, putting the slab into a Safe T Mailer, stuffing it into the free USPS envelope and sticking on the mailing label. I assume a competent clerk could do at least 20 in an hour so at minimum 20 comparable wins would be $160 in additional handling. Giving the person a generous $50 per hour in pay and benefits leaves $110 to cover cost of supplies. Depending upon how much they allocate to insurance I'd posit that they make money on shipping.
I don’t recall ever being gifted free shipping by any of the auction houses I’ve purchased from. Though reading through all of the responses, the idea of auction houses offering free shipping to clients that meet certain thresholds over a period of time seems like a nice little marketing promotion for an auction house to offer buyers. Something along the lines of a frequent flyer mileage perk- perhaps they already do have something like that and I’m only oblivious to it as I don’t meet the threshold-
@ElKevvo said:
I have a strong customer service background from jobs I had when I was a bit younger and for me, if someone buys a coin and I make a decent profit I'll cover the shipping. One could make the argument that an extra 50.00 on a large purchase like that should not matter but it goes both ways with the buyer and seller. IMO from a customer service standpoint it does go far to say 'Don't worry about paying for the shipping, we have it covered for you. Thanks for the business!'.
Just a couple of thoughts...
K
Anymore when I sell things via message boards it's always priced TYD or To Your Door. Of course it helps to have a good idea of cost to ship before you price it into your item.
I had HA give me free shipping once (without me asking). A few months ago I purchased a note that was listed in the buy now from owner section and after about 3 weeks there was still no movement on it. At that point I found out by calling that the seller still hadn’t sent the note in to them and they had to send a reminder.
Though the $50 shipping fee seems like a pittance that the Auction house should be able to provide for free, it sort of adds up in a big auction. A 700 lot sale would total $35k. I don't think an entity like Heritage or Stack's should be making money on shipping but I don't think they should be losing money on shipping. My hunch is that these companies err on the high side and do indeed "make money" on shipping, but I doubt it's the windfall many presume. The same goes for PCGS/NGC and others.
@jeffas1974 said:
I had HA give me free shipping once (without me asking). A few months ago I purchased a note that was listed in the buy now from owner section and after about 3 weeks there was still no movement on it. At that point I found out by calling that the seller still hadn’t sent the note in to them and they had to send a reminder.
Actually, HA's marketplace seems to routinely have free shipping. For example, their comic marketplace is all priced as total cost to buyer, no added shipping or premiums.
@Maywood said:
Though the $50 shipping fee seems like a pittance that the Auction house should be able to provide for free, it sort of adds up in a big auction. A 700 lot sale would total $35k. I don't think an entity like Heritage or Stack's should be making money on shipping but I don't think they should be losing money on shipping. My hunch is that these companies err on the high side and do indeed "make money" on shipping, but I doubt it's the windfall many presume. The same goes for PCGS/NGC and others.
The shipping is also significant when talking about inexpensive items. I routinely buy $100 or $200 items from HA and others. In that case, $10 shipping is a significant percentage of the total cost to me but an even greater percentage of the house take.
@ElKevvo said:
I have a strong customer service background from jobs I had when I was a bit younger and for me, if someone buys a coin and I make a decent profit I'll cover the shipping. One could make the argument that an extra 50.00 on a large purchase like that should not matter but it goes both ways with the buyer and seller. IMO from a customer service standpoint it does go far to say 'Don't worry about paying for the shipping, we have it covered for you. Thanks for the business!'.
Just a couple of thoughts...
K
Anymore when I sell things via message boards it's always priced TYD or To Your Door. Of course it helps to have a good idea of cost to ship before you price it into your item.
Which amounts to hiding the shipping cost. That is a psychologically good practice for sellers. However, it doesn't really decrease the cost to the buyer.
@Maywood said:
Though the $50 shipping fee seems like a pittance that the Auction house should be able to provide for free, it sort of adds up in a big auction. A 700 lot sale would total $35k. I don't think an entity like Heritage or Stack's should be making money on shipping but I don't think they should be losing money on shipping. My hunch is that these companies err on the high side and do indeed "make money" on shipping, but I doubt it's the windfall many presume. The same goes for PCGS/NGC and others.
The shipping is also significant when talking about inexpensive items. I routinely buy $100 or $200 items from HA and others. In that case, $10 shipping is a significant percentage of the total cost to me but an even greater percentage of the house take.
Unless it's a good to great deal it's a cost that has to be recovered upon resale plus your cost to reship it. Fortunately you can probably reship it in a bubble pack envelope for a third of the cost that they whacked you for. If you can make money doing it I say more power to you. Seems like we have these same discussions over and over.
The BP is not "profit". The auction house has expenses and bills to pay.
Someone has to pay for the free drinks and food they hand out during lot viewing.
I don’t mind paying for shipping - I do mind when they they take two weeks to ship after receiving my wire payment!
Reminds me of the time I won something (not a coin) from an auction in another state. They offered in-house packing and shipping as an option, and it was much cheaper than having UPS go pick it up and package/ship. So, I went with the auction house.
I called them a number of times over the course of a few weeks before they finally shipped it. They were featured on a cable TV show, sort of a reality auction TV show, and that was apparently their priority.
@Maywood said:
Though the $50 shipping fee seems like a pittance that the Auction house should be able to provide for free, it sort of adds up in a big auction. A 700 lot sale would total $35k. I don't think an entity like Heritage or Stack's should be making money on shipping but I don't think they should be losing money on shipping. My hunch is that these companies err on the high side and do indeed "make money" on shipping, but I doubt it's the windfall many presume. The same goes for PCGS/NGC and others.
The shipping is also significant when talking about inexpensive items. I routinely buy $100 or $200 items from HA and others. In that case, $10 shipping is a significant percentage of the total cost to me but an even greater percentage of the house take.
Unless it's a good to great deal it's a cost that has to be recovered upon resale plus your cost to reship it. Fortunately you can probably reship it in a bubble pack envelope for a third of the cost that they whacked you for. If you can make money doing it I say more power to you. Seems like we have these same discussions over and over.
I always look at the total cost only. I don't care about 20% or shipping or the breakdown. If I figure I can sell it for 20% more (eBay costs 10% with shipping), then I go for it. If not, I leave it alone.
The BP is not "profit". The auction house has expenses and bills to pay.
Someone has to pay for the free drinks and food they hand out during lot viewing.
I don’t mind paying for shipping - I do mind when they they take two weeks to ship after receiving my wire payment!
Reminds me of the time I won something (not a coin) from an auction in another state. They offered in-house packing and shipping as an option, and it was much cheaper than having UPS go pick it up and package/ship. So, I went with the auction house.
I called them a number of times over the course of a few weeks before they finally shipped it. They were featured on a cable TV show, sort of a reality auction TV show, and that was apparently their priority.
Friend of mine bought something from a smaller local auction house in a different state. [PA, we're in NY.] That auction house doesn't have an in-house shipping department so all shipping is farmed out to the local UPS store. He ended up spending $200 (with BP) at the auction house and $75 at the UPS store for a medium box 16x10x8 that weighed about 6 pounds.
A shipping department does cost money and I don't think the people that think shipping from some place like HA should be free or at the cost of postage are being completely fair.
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
So… you would have been happier if it took longer? Not what I would expect from your usual logic centre…
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
So… you would have been happier if it took longer? Not what I would expect from your usual logic centre…
I think it would have sold in 8 days if I had listed it on FB. The real estate market is so hot around here, you don't even have to try that hard. A friend of mine had a burned out house sell in 10 days for $60,000 over ask.
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
And my attorney charges me $10k for delegating his/her paper pushing work out to newbies saying it is his/her own and I am relying on it to defend/stop from getting sued in a system with so much bs I am forced to keep paying these attorneys.
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
So… you would have been happier if it took longer? Not what I would expect from your usual logic centre…
I think it would have sold in 8 days if I had listed it on FB. The real estate market is so hot around here, you don't even have to try that hard. A friend of mine had a burned out house sell in 10 days for $60,000 over ask.
Based on your observations why did you use a realtor?
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
So… you would have been happier if it took longer? Not what I would expect from your usual logic centre…
I think it would have sold in 8 days if I had listed it on FB. The real estate market is so hot around here, you don't even have to try that hard. A friend of mine had a burned out house sell in 10 days for $60,000 over ask.
Based on your observations why did you use a realtor?
My mother's house. She was more comfortable that way. And I really couldn't know what price we'd get. Comps said $220 to $240k. We had an offer of $200k+ before it was even listed. Ended up at $280k.
Don't get me wrong, the realtor's expertise was valuable. But he really didn't have to do much to sell it.
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
So… you would have been happier if it took longer? Not what I would expect from your usual logic centre…
I think it would have sold in 8 days if I had listed it on FB. The real estate market is so hot around here, you don't even have to try that hard. A friend of mine had a burned out house sell in 10 days for $60,000 over ask.
Based on your observations why did you use a realtor?
My mother's house. She was more comfortable that way. And I really couldn't know what price we'd get. Comps said $220 to $240k. We had an offer of $200k+ before it was even listed. Ended up at $280k.
Don't get me wrong, the realtor's expertise was valuable. But he really didn't have to do much to sell it.
I'm not a realtor but for every time the market is hot the market is cold. During the "winter" it might take 180 days or never to sell. Kinda like roofers who haven't worked for months and then a huge storm comes thru. I'd say houses under 500 everywhere are hot hot due to the fact most can't afford due to current rates. You could look at it like the realtor got you an extra 40k
Well, Yah ......... paying 20% on a coin is a lot like reroofing a house.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
Why should somebody who spent $7000 on an item get a free ride on shipping when Sally Collector paid $7 for shpx on her item purchased for $125? Some rich collector is better than her and deserves a free ride on shpx? Hogwash rofl.
BTW In auc one agrees to the fee structure before bidding. Not saying u should not shop around.
If auc house buyers fee 20 pct I deduct that from my bid in what would I normally offer for the coin like say on that material my normal offer off bourse at show 10 pct behind bid. So what the auc supposedly made it’s their stadium, their infrastructure investment, terms, etc.
@RobertScotLover said:
And consumers get all pissy when a licensed real estate agent/broker asks for 6% (less their expenses).
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
So… you would have been happier if it took longer? Not what I would expect from your usual logic centre…
I think it would have sold in 8 days if I had listed it on FB. The real estate market is so hot around here, you don't even have to try that hard. A friend of mine had a burned out house sell in 10 days for $60,000 over ask.
Based on your observations why did you use a realtor?
My mother's house. She was more comfortable that way. And I really couldn't know what price we'd get. Comps said $220 to $240k. We had an offer of $200k+ before it was even listed. Ended up at $280k.
Don't get me wrong, the realtor's expertise was valuable. But he really didn't have to do much to sell it.
I'm not a realtor but for every time the market is hot the market is cold. During the "winter" it might take 180 days or never to sell. Kinda like roofers who haven't worked for months and then a huge storm comes thru. I'd say houses under 500 everywhere are hot hot due to the fact most can't afford due to current rates. You could look at it like the realtor got you an extra 40k
The market here has been inexplicably white hot for several years. No lulls. The longest I've seen a house in my neighborhood stay on the market was 2.5 weeks.
4 years ago, you could have bought my mother's house for $160k tops. One of the bids was willing to go to $305k.
Actually, a BP does sometimes cost a savvy bidder money. Probably not often, but sometimes. Yes, if the winning bidder and his underbidder are both smart enough to back the BP out of their bid, the BP has done no harm. But in the presumably uncommon situation where the underbidder fails to adjust his bid - out of stupidity or simply by mistake - the winning bidder will pay more than would otherwise have been necessary. (In a way, that’s similar to the situation when a bidder buys a coin at the reserve, with the second highest potential buyer far short of the reserve. In effect, the price was not determined by a purely efficient auction process.)
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Yes people are bid up in auctions. Sometimes they may bid / pay so high they are the end user. I have no sympathy for them. One has to take responsibility for decisions made in RCI.
Before an auc I seize up auc targets for inventory then flag on watch list w notes - MV, whsl bid, etc. Then as auc progresses act accordingly. eBay has auc sniper. In any venu u never know how aggressive the bidding will get in the end.
@MrEureka said:
Actually, a BP does sometimes cost a savvy bidder money. Probably not often, but sometimes. Yes, if the winning bidder and his underbidder are both smart enough to back the BP out of their bid, the BP has done no harm. But in the presumably uncommon situation where the underbidder fails to adjust his bid - out of stupidity or simply by mistake - the winning bidder will pay more than would otherwise have been necessary. (In a way, that’s similar to the situation when a bidder buys a coin at the reserve, with the second highest potential buyer far short of the reserve. In effect, the price was not determined by a purely efficient auction process.)
Except the top bidder is not obligated to bid. If you choose to bid higher than the ignorant underbidder, that's your choice.
I have been in business for over 40 years. I run my business on a handshake but always make it a point to sit down with the customer and READ to them the EXACT terms we have agreed to. Never fails. Every year at least one customer will complain about the agreement after all work is completed and I have their verbal approval of results. I will tell you what I tell them. "You hired me, you got the results you wanted. What would you say if I tried to charge you 20% more when all was said and done."
Heritage and every auction site I have ever dealt with demands you READ and sign off on the terms before they ever let you bid. Complain to me when they charge you more than stated. James
@MrEureka said:
Actually, a BP does sometimes cost a savvy bidder money. Probably not often, but sometimes. Yes, if the winning bidder and his underbidder are both smart enough to back the BP out of their bid, the BP has done no harm. But in the presumably uncommon situation where the underbidder fails to adjust his bid - out of stupidity or simply by mistake - the winning bidder will pay more than would otherwise have been necessary. (In a way, that’s similar to the situation when a bidder buys a coin at the reserve, with the second highest potential buyer far short of the reserve. In effect, the price was not determined by a purely efficient auction process.)
Except the top bidder is not obligated to bid. If you choose to bid higher than the ignorant underbidder, that's your choice.
Of course. But the question isn't if the winning bidder got cheated. The question is if the underbidder's stupidity might have cost the winning bidder some money.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
Actually, a BP does sometimes cost a savvy bidder money. Probably not often, but sometimes. Yes, if the winning bidder and his underbidder are both smart enough to back the BP out of their bid, the BP has done no harm. But in the presumably uncommon situation where the underbidder fails to adjust his bid - out of stupidity or simply by mistake - the winning bidder will pay more than would otherwise have been necessary. (In a way, that’s similar to the situation when a bidder buys a coin at the reserve, with the second highest potential buyer far short of the reserve. In effect, the price was not determined by a purely efficient auction process.)
Except the top bidder is not obligated to bid. If you choose to bid higher than the ignorant underbidder, that's your choice.
Of course. But the question isn't if the winning bidder got cheated. The question is if the underbidder's stupidity might have cost the winning bidder some money.
Sure. But you could say the same about an underbidder entering the wrong number or bidding on the wrong lot or entering a nuke bid or just about anything else. Blaming a BP for having to outbid someone kind of ignores the 1000 other reasons the underbidder might have gone that high.
@MrEureka said:
Actually, a BP does sometimes cost a savvy bidder money. Probably not often, but sometimes. Yes, if the winning bidder and his underbidder are both smart enough to back the BP out of their bid, the BP has done no harm. But in the presumably uncommon situation where the underbidder fails to adjust his bid - out of stupidity or simply by mistake - the winning bidder will pay more than would otherwise have been necessary. (In a way, that’s similar to the situation when a bidder buys a coin at the reserve, with the second highest potential buyer far short of the reserve. In effect, the price was not determined by a purely efficient auction process.)
Except the top bidder is not obligated to bid. If you choose to bid higher than the ignorant underbidder, that's your choice.
Of course. But the question isn't if the winning bidder got cheated. The question is if the underbidder's stupidity might have cost the winning bidder some money.
Sure. But you could say the same about an underbidder entering the wrong number or bidding on the wrong lot or entering a nuke bid or just about anything else. Blaming a BP for having to outbid someone kind of ignores the 1000 other reasons the underbidder might have gone that high.
True. But it happens, maybe not so infrequently, so I didn't want to make the usual argument that BP's are completely irrelevant and never cost anyone a dime. Even if that's the way we think it should be.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
Actually, a BP does sometimes cost a savvy bidder money. Probably not often, but sometimes. Yes, if the winning bidder and his underbidder are both smart enough to back the BP out of their bid, the BP has done no harm. But in the presumably uncommon situation where the underbidder fails to adjust his bid - out of stupidity or simply by mistake - the winning bidder will pay more than would otherwise have been necessary. (In a way, that’s similar to the situation when a bidder buys a coin at the reserve, with the second highest potential buyer far short of the reserve. In effect, the price was not determined by a purely efficient auction process.)
Except the top bidder is not obligated to bid. If you choose to bid higher than the ignorant underbidder, that's your choice.
Of course. But the question isn't if the winning bidder got cheated. The question is if the underbidder's stupidity might have cost the winning bidder some money.
Sure. But you could say the same about an underbidder entering the wrong number or bidding on the wrong lot or entering a nuke bid or just about anything else. Blaming a BP for having to outbid someone kind of ignores the 1000 other reasons the underbidder might have gone that high.
True. But it happens, maybe not so infrequently, so I didn't want to make the usual argument that BP's are completely irrelevant and never cost anyone a dime. Even if that's the way we think it should be.
I agree. I'm sure some people just don't include it or don't know to include it. I've seen people seem surprised by it. {Which is hard to imagine for Stack's or HA since they show the total when you bid.) But you still can't make me bid more than I want to, no matter what you bid or what the premiums are.
I'm always a bit gobsmacked by threads such as this.
Sure, it can look a bit like bad form, but everyone playing the game understands the rules. When I buy a coin at auction, whether for $300 or $3000, I factor in the shipping cost and the BP, tailoring my bid to the gross amount I'll pay if I win.
To the extent someone paying as much for a coin that the "house" gets $7000 (presumably meaning that the BP was $7000) cares even a little bit about the shipping cost (to rational people, the shipping cost at that price is lost in the noise of the bidding), I'm sure they also factored it in.
I can criticize high shipping costs as much as the next guy. But the only thing that really matters is that the costs a winning bidder will pay, above the hammer price, are plainly set out.
@Boosibri said:
I still can’t understand why people are fixated on the buyers premium as a buyer. You can’t afford coins because of the buyers premium, really? Bidders bid a net number!
I hear this frequently, and do it myself, but then I also hear from a lot of people that bidding 20% back of retail means they never win a coin.
@Boosibri said:
I still can’t understand why people are fixated on the buyers premium as a buyer. You can’t afford coins because of the buyers premium, really? Bidders bid a net number!
I hear this frequently, and do it myself, but then I also hear from a lot of people that bidding 20% back of retail means they never win a coin.
It can also mean they never over-pay for a coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Comments
Received 1 useful PM - they said just pick it up at the next show, free!
Not sure anything should be free, but shipping certainly can be considered part of a house's overhead, and included in the BP, just like staff salaries, utilities, rent, etc. It is charged because people accept paying for it separately, just like they accept 20% BPs, when 10%, 12.5%, 15%, and 17.5% used to be the norm. Nothing is written in stone, including buyers paying shipping fees in addition to BPs.
Well the thread title supposes that the house made $7K . How much they actually made doesn't matter since the figure proposed is $7K. Then again a lot of folks misconstrue the amount of markup as money made, but I don't think the OP is one of them. Maybe the coin is one that the OP sold to the auction house.
How much would a coin have to hammer in order to generate $7K in BP? Looks like around $35K for 20% juice. Hardly unusual.Also the OP may have sold the coin to the auction house so he knows their cost. Does the house charge itself the BP? All we know is that the OP says the house realized $7K profit, but nothing about the source of the profit.
I’m not sure what “the thread title supposes”. Does it suppose that the auction house netted $7000 on the lot or that it grossed that amount? Or that, as the title suggests, $7000 was made on the OP’s bid?
Regardless of which of those it was, I’d think that to at least some readers, the amount that was actually made could matter - at least for purposes of answering the question whether they’d offer free shipping.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you want to be walking around a major city with a $35,000 coin in your pocket...
So you think this might have happened: 1) the OP could have sold the coin to the auction house; 2) they later put it up for auction; 3) the OP then bid on the very coin he had sold to them; 4) he bid so high that won it at a $7000 profit for the auction house.
To be fair, I guess that’s not impossible. But I think that’s a bit of a stretch. 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have a strong customer service background from jobs I had when I was a bit younger and for me, if someone buys a coin and I make a decent profit I'll cover the shipping. One could make the argument that an extra 50.00 on a large purchase like that should not matter but it goes both ways with the buyer and seller. IMO from a customer service standpoint it does go far to say 'Don't worry about paying for the shipping, we have it covered for you. Thanks for the business!'.
Just a couple of thoughts...
K
Depends on what else he has in his pocket.
A lot of stretch. Anyways the OP said they made $7K. How he apparently knew doesn't matter.
I'm sure the people criticizing you for your post HAPPILY pay the hefty shipping fee when it's added to their bill.
Not.
If the OP's bid was enough to win the auction then the house made the $7K on both, no? I suppose it wouldn't hurt the house to offer an occasional freebie to their best customers, but IMO if you've got big bucks for a coin you can afford the postage. From what I've learned in my time it's that the ones who complain the most about such things are the ones least likely to need the gratuity.
I do think that shipping should be at cost and not necessarily a profit center, but that's me.
ETA: My last Heritage win was in 2018; coin + juice was $220 +44 for $264. S & H was $13 or about 5%. IIRC flat rate envelopes were an undiscounted $4.95 so that's about $8 for handling; printing an invoice, putting the slab into a Safe T Mailer, stuffing it into the free USPS envelope and sticking on the mailing label. I assume a competent clerk could do at least 20 in an hour so at minimum 20 comparable wins would be $160 in additional handling. Giving the person a generous $50 per hour in pay and benefits leaves $110 to cover cost of supplies. Depending upon how much they allocate to insurance I'd posit that they make money on shipping.
I don’t recall ever being gifted free shipping by any of the auction houses I’ve purchased from. Though reading through all of the responses, the idea of auction houses offering free shipping to clients that meet certain thresholds over a period of time seems like a nice little marketing promotion for an auction house to offer buyers. Something along the lines of a frequent flyer mileage perk- perhaps they already do have something like that and I’m only oblivious to it as I don’t meet the threshold-
Anymore when I sell things via message boards it's always priced TYD or To Your Door. Of course it helps to have a good idea of cost to ship before you price it into your item.
I had HA give me free shipping once (without me asking). A few months ago I purchased a note that was listed in the buy now from owner section and after about 3 weeks there was still no movement on it. At that point I found out by calling that the seller still hadn’t sent the note in to them and they had to send a reminder.
Though the $50 shipping fee seems like a pittance that the Auction house should be able to provide for free, it sort of adds up in a big auction. A 700 lot sale would total $35k. I don't think an entity like Heritage or Stack's should be making money on shipping but I don't think they should be losing money on shipping. My hunch is that these companies err on the high side and do indeed "make money" on shipping, but I doubt it's the windfall many presume. The same goes for PCGS/NGC and others.
Actually, HA's marketplace seems to routinely have free shipping. For example, their comic marketplace is all priced as total cost to buyer, no added shipping or premiums.
The shipping is also significant when talking about inexpensive items. I routinely buy $100 or $200 items from HA and others. In that case, $10 shipping is a significant percentage of the total cost to me but an even greater percentage of the house take.
Which amounts to hiding the shipping cost. That is a psychologically good practice for sellers. However, it doesn't really decrease the cost to the buyer.
Someone has to pay for the free drinks and food they hand out during lot viewing.
I don’t mind paying for shipping - I do mind when they they take two weeks to ship after receiving my wire payment!
Unless it's a good to great deal it's a cost that has to be recovered upon resale plus your cost to reship it. Fortunately you can probably reship it in a bubble pack envelope for a third of the cost that they whacked you for. If you can make money doing it I say more power to you. Seems like we have these same discussions over and over.
Reminds me of the time I won something (not a coin) from an auction in another state. They offered in-house packing and shipping as an option, and it was much cheaper than having UPS go pick it up and package/ship. So, I went with the auction house.
I called them a number of times over the course of a few weeks before they finally shipped it. They were featured on a cable TV show, sort of a reality auction TV show, and that was apparently their priority.
I always look at the total cost only. I don't care about 20% or shipping or the breakdown. If I figure I can sell it for 20% more (eBay costs 10% with shipping), then I go for it. If not, I leave it alone.
Friend of mine bought something from a smaller local auction house in a different state. [PA, we're in NY.] That auction house doesn't have an in-house shipping department so all shipping is farmed out to the local UPS store. He ended up spending $200 (with BP) at the auction house and $75 at the UPS store for a medium box 16x10x8 that weighed about 6 pounds.
A shipping department does cost money and I don't think the people that think shipping from some place like HA should be free or at the cost of postage are being completely fair.
Try paying shipping fees for bonsai trees as the live plants need to move very quickly through the system.
My order in route was $375 for 2 plants, but the shipping charge was an additional $238.38 for 3 day shipping from Florida to California
My current bout of OCD is getting me some really nice trees
Because filling out paperwork is worth $15k +. Nah, I'll have my attorney write up a contract for $500. The difference here is that only the auction house can sell the coin; the buyer cannot acquire it through some other means.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
I cannot tell you the value of a good agent/broker finding properties that one would miss if the relationship didn't exist. Its not the paperwork pushing that's their strong point its the finding the diamond in the rough.
I don't know. Some times that's true. We just sold my mother's house. We finished cleaning it out on a Sunday. On Monday, the realtor took pictures and listed it. Showings started on Wednesday. On Saturday, he had an open house. On the following Monday, we examined the offers and had two offers for $100,000 over ask. So, while I like the realtor and he sold the house, he got $20,000 for 8 days of work.
So… you would have been happier if it took longer? Not what I would expect from your usual logic centre…
Smitten with DBLCs.
I think it would have sold in 8 days if I had listed it on FB. The real estate market is so hot around here, you don't even have to try that hard. A friend of mine had a burned out house sell in 10 days for $60,000 over ask.
And my attorney charges me $10k for delegating his/her paper pushing work out to newbies saying it is his/her own and I am relying on it to defend/stop from getting sued in a system with so much bs I am forced to keep paying these attorneys.
Based on your observations why did you use a realtor?
I just paid 26% fee for a jewelry auction plus UPS shipping charge
My mother's house. She was more comfortable that way. And I really couldn't know what price we'd get. Comps said $220 to $240k. We had an offer of $200k+ before it was even listed. Ended up at $280k.
Don't get me wrong, the realtor's expertise was valuable. But he really didn't have to do much to sell it.
I'm not a realtor but for every time the market is hot the market is cold. During the "winter" it might take 180 days or never to sell. Kinda like roofers who haven't worked for months and then a huge storm comes thru. I'd say houses under 500 everywhere are hot hot due to the fact most can't afford due to current rates. You could look at it like the realtor got you an extra 40k
Well, Yah ......... paying 20% on a coin is a lot like reroofing a house.
Interesting
Why should somebody who spent $7000 on an item get a free ride on shipping when Sally Collector paid $7 for shpx on her item purchased for $125? Some rich collector is better than her and deserves a free ride on shpx? Hogwash rofl.
BTW In auc one agrees to the fee structure before bidding. Not saying u should not shop around.
If auc house buyers fee 20 pct I deduct that from my bid in what would I normally offer for the coin like say on that material my normal offer off bourse at show 10 pct behind bid. So what the auc supposedly made it’s their stadium, their infrastructure investment, terms, etc.
The market here has been inexplicably white hot for several years. No lulls. The longest I've seen a house in my neighborhood stay on the market was 2.5 weeks.
4 years ago, you could have bought my mother's house for $160k tops. One of the bids was willing to go to $305k.
Yes, a more accurate word is "REVENUE", not "PROFIT".
Actually, a BP does sometimes cost a savvy bidder money. Probably not often, but sometimes. Yes, if the winning bidder and his underbidder are both smart enough to back the BP out of their bid, the BP has done no harm. But in the presumably uncommon situation where the underbidder fails to adjust his bid - out of stupidity or simply by mistake - the winning bidder will pay more than would otherwise have been necessary. (In a way, that’s similar to the situation when a bidder buys a coin at the reserve, with the second highest potential buyer far short of the reserve. In effect, the price was not determined by a purely efficient auction process.)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Yes people are bid up in auctions. Sometimes they may bid / pay so high they are the end user. I have no sympathy for them. One has to take responsibility for decisions made in RCI.
Before an auc I seize up auc targets for inventory then flag on watch list w notes - MV, whsl bid, etc. Then as auc progresses act accordingly. eBay has auc sniper. In any venu u never know how aggressive the bidding will get in the end.
Except the top bidder is not obligated to bid. If you choose to bid higher than the ignorant underbidder, that's your choice.
I have been in business for over 40 years. I run my business on a handshake but always make it a point to sit down with the customer and READ to them the EXACT terms we have agreed to. Never fails. Every year at least one customer will complain about the agreement after all work is completed and I have their verbal approval of results. I will tell you what I tell them. "You hired me, you got the results you wanted. What would you say if I tried to charge you 20% more when all was said and done."
Heritage and every auction site I have ever dealt with demands you READ and sign off on the terms before they ever let you bid. Complain to me when they charge you more than stated. James
Of course. But the question isn't if the winning bidder got cheated. The question is if the underbidder's stupidity might have cost the winning bidder some money.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Sure. But you could say the same about an underbidder entering the wrong number or bidding on the wrong lot or entering a nuke bid or just about anything else. Blaming a BP for having to outbid someone kind of ignores the 1000 other reasons the underbidder might have gone that high.
True. But it happens, maybe not so infrequently, so I didn't want to make the usual argument that BP's are completely irrelevant and never cost anyone a dime. Even if that's the way we think it should be.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I agree. I'm sure some people just don't include it or don't know to include it. I've seen people seem surprised by it. {Which is hard to imagine for Stack's or HA since they show the total when you bid.) But you still can't make me bid more than I want to, no matter what you bid or what the premiums are.
I'm always a bit gobsmacked by threads such as this.
Sure, it can look a bit like bad form, but everyone playing the game understands the rules. When I buy a coin at auction, whether for $300 or $3000, I factor in the shipping cost and the BP, tailoring my bid to the gross amount I'll pay if I win.
To the extent someone paying as much for a coin that the "house" gets $7000 (presumably meaning that the BP was $7000) cares even a little bit about the shipping cost (to rational people, the shipping cost at that price is lost in the noise of the bidding), I'm sure they also factored it in.
I can criticize high shipping costs as much as the next guy. But the only thing that really matters is that the costs a winning bidder will pay, above the hammer price, are plainly set out.
I hear this frequently, and do it myself, but then I also hear from a lot of people that bidding 20% back of retail means they never win a coin.
It can also mean they never over-pay for a coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.