I put some fish back into the ocean. From where i'm sitting, I would have gotten like 50% 70s, 40% 69s, and 10% 68s if I had straight submitted from the mint without opening them. I suspect the percentages will decrease dramatically as time goes on.
@jmlanzaf said:
I'm kind of surprised people are still chasing them - unless you haven't gotten any yet. Ebay prices are in the mid 80s. They aren't really flippable anymore and they will probably be available at issue price or lower this year.
I know 2 dealers trying to dump quantity at $80 to $84.
They must not be connecting with the wholesalers. $85 going rate wholesale as of Friday.
Current bid is $2,700 for the #82 uncertified golden ticket peace dollar on Ebay. Bidding ends tomorrow afternoon.
Also #24 at $2,500 and #53 at $2,475.
I did not expect bidding to get that high for uncertified ones, but apparently a number of people are bidding on them.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@HATTRICK said:
Current bid is $2,700 for the #82 uncertified golden ticket peace dollar on Ebay. Bidding ends tomorrow afternoon.
Also #24 at $2,500 and #53 at $2,475.
I did not expect bidding to get that high for uncertified ones, but apparently a number of people are bidding on them.
I saw that... That's crazy dollars. Congrats to the sellers!
@jmlanzaf said:
I'm kind of surprised people are still chasing them - unless you haven't gotten any yet. Ebay prices are in the mid 80s. They aren't really flippable anymore and they will probably be available at issue price or lower this year.
I know 2 dealers trying to dump quantity at $80 to $84.
They must not be connecting with the wholesalers. $85 going rate wholesale as of Friday.
They are on the dealer network. That's where I saw the asks.
So...I'm getting ready to send my coins in to PCGS for grading. For once in my life, I pull out a loupe to see how they looked. This is not my area of expertise. Also, the quarterly submission deal is 5 for the price of 4. I bought six of each, so I figured I'd have to pay full price for two. Be careful what you wish for. Even with my non-expert eye, I noticed some stuff on two coins.
@Glen2022 said:
Are the items that pop up as available now ones that have been returned to the Mint by others? If so, I would think there may be problems with these.
That's what I was thinking too... 🤔
People buying at this point probably don't care for 70, just want a silver coin.
@Glen2022 said:
Are the items that pop up as available now ones that have been returned to the Mint by others? If so, I would think there may be problems with these.
IIRC, the mint cannot re-sell coins with defects. They can re-sell coins that they deem problem-free. (again, IIRC...not double checked)
.
Also, some other the coins that pop up could be from:
order reconciliation (eg, an account the had 15 subs, and then order 15 on day of release)
stock held for on site sales
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
If I wanted a pocket piece or a host coin for a future "hobo dollar" project I would have no worries about getting a potential return, but of course that's a slim niche market.
I'm into free shipping for the year, so I suppose there's little downside if I ordered another, but I'm not sure I have a need to.
@RichR said:
I ask again...if a TPG comes across a signed COA in a sealed box...and you didn't request OGP back...then what?
This is not just an academic discussion with values like this!
Very good question. I would also think you would need to pay for all your coa’s to be encapsulated to have a chance to get the extra signed certificate appropriately linked and numbered to your special coin. It could get very costly.
Ideally the grading companies should email or call individuals about a signed certificate and ask if they want it encapsulated, but I don’t know their policies.
Also #24 at $2,500 and #53 at $2,475. These were the current bids last night. Obviously you do not need certification for a remarkable profit on these golden ticket coins
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
When I submitted my 1969 Apollo notes and the three special Apollo prints from the BEP, they charged me oversize rate listed in their pricing section. It was very reasonable. They told me that anything issued by the US mint or BEP is excepted for encapsulation. That’s what happened in my case and how they explained it to me when I made my submission. Director Gibson’s COA would fall into those category’s I would think.
2023 MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR UNC NO MINT MARK 261,048 +1,237
2023 MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR UNC NO MINT MARK – 40 COIN 343 +5
2023 PEACE SILVER DOLLAR UNC NO MINT MARK 260,666 +725
2023 PEACE SILVER DOLLAR UNC NO MINT MARK – 40 COIN 343 + 5
Subscription reductions every day over the last five days. This is starting to look different than the pattern seen with the uncs at < 2 weeks out. (now 8 days out from release, and maybe 4-5 days before subs get looked in by the mint)
There will be an estimated/approximate 54.3K Morgan proofs and 66.9K Peace proofs available for release day "live" sales.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@SPalladino said:
Subscription reductions every day over the last five days. This is starting to look different than the pattern seen with the uncs at < 2 weeks out. (now 8 days out from release, and maybe 4-5 days before subs get looked in by the mint)
There will be an estimated/approximate 54.3K Morgan proofs and 66.9K Peace proofs available for release day "live" sales.
It will be interesting to see if that pattern continues over the next couple days...If so perhaps the demand won't be quite as hot as the uncs?
@SPalladino said:
Subscription reductions every day over the last five days. This is starting to look different than the pattern seen with the uncs at < 2 weeks out. (now 8 days out from release, and maybe 4-5 days before subs get looked in by the mint)
There will be an estimated/approximate 54.3K Morgan proofs and 66.9K Peace proofs available for release day "live" sales.
It will be interesting to see if that pattern continues over the next couple days...If so perhaps the demand won't be quite as hot as the uncs?
Price weakness in the uncs is probably the reason for it.
@SPalladino said:
Subscription reductions every day over the last five days. This is starting to look different than the pattern seen with the uncs at < 2 weeks out. (now 8 days out from release, and maybe 4-5 days before subs get looked in by the mint)
There will be an estimated/approximate 54.3K Morgan proofs and 66.9K Peace proofs available for release day "live" sales.
It will be interesting to see if that pattern continues over the next couple days...If so perhaps the demand won't be quite as hot as the uncs?
Price weakness in the uncs is probably the reason for it.
Yeah makes sense. I'd think in the long run the proofs may be more in demand? We haven't seen a proof morgan or peace in over 100 years... I guess time will tell!
@SPalladino said:
Subscription reductions every day over the last five days. This is starting to look different than the pattern seen with the uncs at < 2 weeks out. (now 8 days out from release, and maybe 4-5 days before subs get looked in by the mint)
There will be an estimated/approximate 54.3K Morgan proofs and 66.9K Peace proofs available for release day "live" sales.
It will be interesting to see if that pattern continues over the next couple days...If so perhaps the demand won't be quite as hot as the uncs?
Price weakness in the uncs is probably the reason for it.
Yeah makes sense. I'd think in the long run the proofs may be more in demand? We haven't seen a proof morgan or peace in over 100 years... I guess time will tell!
Hard to know. If you look at ASEs, anything over 125,000 for a mintage is too much to sustain a premium over issue. So 400,000 here could be too many. It's hard to know since it's a bit of a unicorn.
@spyglassdesign said:
It will be interesting to see if that pattern continues over the next couple days...If so perhaps the demand won't be quite as hot as the uncs?
.
I am speculating, but I think the subscription reductions will continue for the next 4-5 days, until the mint looks the subs.
.
The reason? I agree with this:
@jmlanzaf said:
Price weakness in the uncs is probably the reason for it.
.
@spyglassdesign said:
I'd think in the long run the proofs may be more in demand?
I can't predict the "long run", but at this point I am skeptical.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@spyglassdesign said:
It will be interesting to see if that pattern continues over the next couple days...If so perhaps the demand won't be quite as hot as the uncs?
.
I am speculating, but I think the subscription reductions will continue for the next 4-5 days, until the mint looks the subs.
.
The reason? I agree with this:
@jmlanzaf said:
Price weakness in the uncs is probably the reason for it.
.
@spyglassdesign said:
I'd think in the long run the proofs may be more in demand?
I can't predict the "long run", but at this point I am skeptical.
It's always speculative. But my bias with any Mint product is too expect the same trajectory in pricing.
I said it 5 years ago and I'll repeat it today: you can't have it both ways. Any strategy, like subscriptions, that guarantees smooth sales to all interested parties is incapable of generating any sustained increase in pricing. All those crazy keyboard pounding frustrations created price pressure because of uneven distribution. And except for the very restricted mintage coins, those price increases evaporated as soon as the distribution smoothed out.
You see with the Morgan and Peace Uncs that they cannot hold prices much above release from the moment of release because most people already had them. And when the people that bought a couple extra, just in case, go to sell, you will have more supply than demand.
If the proofs aren't sold out via subscription, I think we have our first clue that supply is more than sufficient.
@SPalladino said:
Subscription reductions every day over the last five days. This is starting to look different than the pattern seen with the uncs at < 2 weeks out. (now 8 days out from release, and maybe 4-5 days before subs get looked in by the mint)
There will be an estimated/approximate 54.3K Morgan proofs and 66.9K Peace proofs available for release day "live" sales.
It will be interesting to see if that pattern continues over the next couple days...If so perhaps the demand won't be quite as hot as the uncs?
Price weakness in the uncs is probably the reason for it.
Yeah makes sense. I'd think in the long run the proofs may be more in demand? We haven't seen a proof morgan or peace in over 100 years... I guess time will tell!
Hard to know. If you look at ASEs, anything over 125,000 for a mintage is too much to sustain a premium over issue. So 400,000 here could be too many. It's hard to know since it's a bit of a unicorn.
We'll I can say proof presale have all but stopped on my end. I am getting ready to reduce to my presale level +2 to keep each... And it looks like many others are also doing so.
Comments
I put some fish back into the ocean. From where i'm sitting, I would have gotten like 50% 70s, 40% 69s, and 10% 68s if I had straight submitted from the mint without opening them. I suspect the percentages will decrease dramatically as time goes on.
Just my 2 pennies.
They must not be connecting with the wholesalers. $85 going rate wholesale as of Friday.
Current bid is $2,700 for the #82 uncertified golden ticket peace dollar on Ebay. Bidding ends tomorrow afternoon.
Also #24 at $2,500 and #53 at $2,475.
I did not expect bidding to get that high for uncertified ones, but apparently a number of people are bidding on them.
I saw that... That's crazy dollars. Congrats to the sellers!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
$84 with free shipping
It sold
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
They are on the dealer network. That's where I saw the asks.
I just printed out to send my 12 M/P in. Had second thoughts based on pricing online but I’m still in them with fees for less than guaranteed 70s.
So...I'm getting ready to send my coins in to PCGS for grading. For once in my life, I pull out a loupe to see how they looked. This is not my area of expertise. Also, the quarterly submission deal is 5 for the price of 4. I bought six of each, so I figured I'd have to pay full price for two. Be careful what you wish for. Even with my non-expert eye, I noticed some stuff on two coins.
Morgan’s were a blip
Peace dollar available. Catch and release
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Available now
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Available now hurry
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Available now
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Are the items that pop up as available now ones that have been returned to the Mint by others? If so, I would think there may be problems with these.
That's what I was thinking too... 🤔
People buying at this point probably don't care for 70, just want a silver coin.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
IIRC, the mint cannot re-sell coins with defects. They can re-sell coins that they deem problem-free. (again, IIRC...not double checked)
.
Also, some other the coins that pop up could be from:
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
If I wanted a pocket piece or a host coin for a future "hobo dollar" project I would have no worries about getting a potential return, but of course that's a slim niche market.
I'm into free shipping for the year, so I suppose there's little downside if I ordered another, but I'm not sure I have a need to.
Gibson signed 2023 Peace Silver Dollar just sold on eBay for $2,850.00...
$2,850.00 07/31/2023 10:45:45am PDT
$2,800.00 07/31/2023 10:45:28am PDT
$2,750.00 07/31/2023 10:45:13am PDT
$2,700.00 07/30/2023 12:54:32am PDT
Amazing. Lucky sons of guns lol. I would have never thought it would go that high... Rarity does funny things to people!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
I ask again...if a TPG comes across a signed COA in a sealed box...and you didn't request OGP back...then what?
This is not just an academic discussion with values like this!
They send it back to you with the packaging unless you ask them to do something else.
Very good question. I would also think you would need to pay for all your coa’s to be encapsulated to have a chance to get the extra signed certificate appropriately linked and numbered to your special coin. It could get very costly.
Ideally the grading companies should email or call individuals about a signed certificate and ask if they want it encapsulated, but I don’t know their policies.
Also #24 at $2,500 and #53 at $2,475. These were the current bids last night. Obviously you do not need certification for a remarkable profit on these golden ticket coins
Congrats to the seller. Great price without the cost, hassle or lack of information from the TPGs
MCM:
When I submitted my 1969 Apollo notes and the three special Apollo prints from the BEP, they charged me oversize rate listed in their pricing section. It was very reasonable. They told me that anything issued by the US mint or BEP is excepted for encapsulation. That’s what happened in my case and how they explained it to me when I made my submission. Director Gibson’s COA would fall into those category’s I would think.
Available now. Both flavors
3 minutes in catching and releasing
5 minutes and still available. Plenty of time for anyone who wants one ☝️
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I’m following a offer for one of each. OGP.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
bullion exchanges:
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
That's the 10 scale which no doubt at this point in time has less perceived value.
2023 MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR UNC NO MINT MARK 261,048 +1,237
2023 MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR UNC NO MINT MARK – 40 COIN 343 +5
2023 PEACE SILVER DOLLAR UNC NO MINT MARK 260,666 +725
2023 PEACE SILVER DOLLAR UNC NO MINT MARK – 40 COIN 343 + 5
Not if you compare NGC 70 to NGCX 10.
Subscription reductions every day over the last five days. This is starting to look different than the pattern seen with the uncs at < 2 weeks out. (now 8 days out from release, and maybe 4-5 days before subs get looked in by the mint)
There will be an estimated/approximate 54.3K Morgan proofs and 66.9K Peace proofs available for release day "live" sales.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I thought that might elicit a response.
We'll see what the marketplace says.
They are already in the marketplace. That's why I suggested you look. But I guess speculation is easier.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314693801136
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204388671040
Or if clicking is too much work
It will be interesting to see if that pattern continues over the next couple days...If so perhaps the demand won't be quite as hot as the uncs?
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Price weakness in the uncs is probably the reason for it.
Yeah makes sense. I'd think in the long run the proofs may be more in demand? We haven't seen a proof morgan or peace in over 100 years... I guess time will tell!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Hard to know. If you look at ASEs, anything over 125,000 for a mintage is too much to sustain a premium over issue. So 400,000 here could be too many. It's hard to know since it's a bit of a unicorn.
.
I am speculating, but I think the subscription reductions will continue for the next 4-5 days, until the mint looks the subs.
.
The reason? I agree with this:
.
I can't predict the "long run", but at this point I am skeptical.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
PCGS and NGC see a future with the "10" scale. Just a matter of time before the market and collectors adapt.
I would be curious what the numbers are for re-slabs with the "10" scale.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
It's always speculative. But my bias with any Mint product is too expect the same trajectory in pricing.
I said it 5 years ago and I'll repeat it today: you can't have it both ways. Any strategy, like subscriptions, that guarantees smooth sales to all interested parties is incapable of generating any sustained increase in pricing. All those crazy keyboard pounding frustrations created price pressure because of uneven distribution. And except for the very restricted mintage coins, those price increases evaporated as soon as the distribution smoothed out.
You see with the Morgan and Peace Uncs that they cannot hold prices much above release from the moment of release because most people already had them. And when the people that bought a couple extra, just in case, go to sell, you will have more supply than demand.
If the proofs aren't sold out via subscription, I think we have our first clue that supply is more than sufficient.
But, my crystal ball is always broken
We'll I can say proof presale have all but stopped on my end. I am getting ready to reduce to my presale level +2 to keep each... And it looks like many others are also doing so.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Relax...its early flippers are dumping....I'm in it for the long haul.
I'm not sure what that has to do with the difference between NGC and NGCX pricing, which was the topic.
Surprise, surprise, surprise. Reverse Proofs available now. You can get 5 if you want
The thread topic is the coins. The grading scale was off topic sidebar
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
I must have missed it. What has pcgs said or done in efforts to move towards a 10 point scale?
Seems like people pick popular threads to do their whining in hopes more people will see their BS