Exciting new 2023 Peace dollar error

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1st_Place
1st_Place Posts: 24 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I received 6 new 2023-P burnished Peace dollars from the US Mint and one of them has a very interesting error on the upper side of the obverse. The letters BER in LIBERTY are stamped up on a bulged rim area. Please take a look at the photos. I need help in determining what type of error it is referred to as and some advice on submitting it as an error to one of the grading companies like PGCS, NGC or ANACS. Could this be a planchet error? What could possibly cause that bulge on top (circled in red in Area #1)?
Area #2 shows where the raised rim (or bulge area) blends back into the rim.

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  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It looks like something went wrong during the manufacture of the die.

    Moonlight Mint
  • derryb
    derryb Posts: 38,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    worthy of a label

    Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat

  • Goldbully
    Goldbully Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2023 2:02AM
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    @1st_Place said:
    I received 6 new 2023-P burnished Peace dollars from the US Mint and one of them has a very interesting error on the upper side of the obverse. The letters BER in LIBERTY are stamped up on a bulged rim area. Please take a look at the photos. I need help in determining what type of error it is referred to as and some advice on submitting it as an error to one of the grading companies like PGCS, NGC or ANACS. Could this be a planchet error? What could possibly cause that bulge on top (circled in red in Area #1)?
    Area #2 shows where the raised rim (or bulge area) blends back into the rim.


    Interesting.....good luck.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @1st_Place.... Interesting find. I would say it is worth submitting. Lighting is tricky, obvious between the two photographs. Let us know the results. Cheers, RickO

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2023 3:44PM
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    Sorry, to late for the next CPR. >:);) Or maybe not.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • SPalladino
    SPalladino Posts: 976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2023 10:15AM
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    Cool error! If a planchet error, then it could be the only one. OTOH, if a working die fabrication error (an expert opinion from @dcarr ), there could be at least 250K to >300K of these in existence, depending on avg die production life for a dollar die striking up 0.999 silver planchets these days, and whether they caught the error and pulled the die from production.

    Steve Palladino
    - Ike Group member
    - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
  • johnny010
    johnny010 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Watching

  • Relaxn
    Relaxn Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Cursory glance of ebay shows no other similar strike anomaly.
    Interesting to see how this gets marketed.

  • Wolf359
    Wolf359 Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭
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    @Onastone said:
    Hmmm, gives new meaning to "edge lettering"

    Nice name for the error.

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  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Are we sure it’s just not how the coin appears in the holder? Looks like a shadow to me

  • Goldminers
    Goldminers Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jwitten said:
    Are we sure it’s just not how the coin appears in the holder? Looks like a shadow to me

    Agree, it would be better to have a straight on photo of the coin out of the holder as the lighting and ridges in the plastic can cause things to look deceiving.

    My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set

  • 1st_Place
    1st_Place Posts: 24 ✭✭✭
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    It's not trick lighting. The bulge creates the shadow, that otherwise wouldn't show. When I photograph my other Peace dollars next to it, that shadow doesn't develop on them. I'll get another photo. :)

  • 1madman
    1madman Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I believe that this is the same kind of error that I’ve seen on 1984 Lincoln cents. I don’t know if it’s caused by a misaligned die, or partial collar, or something else.

    Here’s an example, and I know it’s more pronounced around more of the rim on this cent, but I’ve seen Lincoln’s exactly like this peace dollar. This sellers picture is decent

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/364307662835

  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I see the rim and a shadow. I don't see a bulge.

    The best way to image this would be removing it from the plastic capsule and imaging it that way.

    Coin Photography

  • lilolme
    lilolme Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Here are the two OP photos, one above the other. I only rotated and positioned. The apparent 'lettering on the rim' (or whatever it is best called) does not appear to match to my eyes (letter B and rays more) but then these thing can trick the eye. So here it is for others to view.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwZlYz2V4AM Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover Paranoid (Black Sabbath)

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    RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2023 3:07PM
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    I am not saying it's the situation here but I am just sharing what I remember about a similar kind of situation a few years ago. In that situation, the coin wasn't seated properly in the plastic case and it caused a distorted view at one edge.

    If this is an actual variety then there will be others showing up.

  • coinbuf
    coinbuf Posts: 12,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2023 3:21PM
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    Both the OP coin and (especially) the ebay one linked by @1madman look to be a simple ridge ring caused by die wear. Neither the op coin or the Lincoln that was linked are a legit error imo.

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  • 1st_Place
    1st_Place Posts: 24 ✭✭✭
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    @coinbuf said:
    Both the OP coin and (especially) the ebay one linked by @1madman look to be a simple ridge ring caused by die wear. Neither the op coin or the Lincoln that was linked are a legit error imo.

    My coin is sharply struck, not something that looks anything like a worn out die, as in the eBay Lincoln cent example. of @1madman.

  • coinbuf
    coinbuf Posts: 12,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @1st_Place said:

    @coinbuf said:
    Both the OP coin and (especially) the ebay one linked by @1madman look to be a simple ridge ring caused by die wear. Neither the op coin or the Lincoln that was linked are a legit error imo.

    My coin is sharply struck, not something that looks anything like a worn out die, as in the eBay Lincoln cent example. of @1madman.

    The ebay Lincoln is an example of a very late die state, yours is not as far gone. A coin can be well struck and still form a ridge ring or other late state die issues like field striations, I stand by my opinion.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • SPalladino
    SPalladino Posts: 976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2023 3:42PM
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    @jwitten said:
    Are we sure it’s just not how the coin appears in the holder? Looks like a shadow to me

    I thought that I had one, but rotating in the light, I could verify that is was not one. The photos in the OP have lighting from two different directions, leading me to believe that it may be the real deal. That said, photos out of the capsule would be confirmatory.

    Steve Palladino
    - Ike Group member
    - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Wolf359 said:

    @Onastone said:
    Hmmm, gives new meaning to "edge lettering"

    Nice name for the error.

    Not really since "edge lettering" refers to something different.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2023 4:42PM
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    @coinbuf said:
    Both the OP coin and (especially) the ebay one linked by @1madman look to be a simple ridge ring caused by die wear. Neither the op coin or the Lincoln that was linked are a legit error imo.

    I tend to agree. I can't think of another mechanism that fits. Unless, of course, it's a capsule illusion.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • BLUEJAYWAY
    BLUEJAYWAY Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If legit wouldn't it be labeled rim lettering?

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • Che_Grapes
    Che_Grapes Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I like it - love the coin and agree with the OP and this one

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    If legit wouldn't it be labeled rim lettering?

    Only if the die were that way. If it's MAD or die fatigue, it would be called by those monikers.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @dcarr said:
    It looks like something went wrong during the manufacture of the die.

    All the pictures have the light source from the same direction in relation to the coin (12:00).
    So now I am wondering about a shadow cast.

    If you can, please post a picture using a different lighting angle, at least 90 degrees from where it was.

    Moonlight Mint
  • Goldminers
    Goldminers Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Still waiting to see the full reverse and its edges.

    My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set

  • jacrispies
    jacrispies Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like die wear similar to early 19th century type coins. Does not make sense because it is a modern die but manufacturing mistakes can happen. Not an error, but a "variety" in my book.

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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  • Rexford
    Rexford Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Shadow

    Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
    https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en

  • 1madman
    1madman Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Manorcourtman said:
    I saw the same thing on my coin at a certain angle while in the capsule. Upon closer examination I discovered it was an optical illusion.

    Can you replicate the illusion and post a picture? It will clarify things

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2023 8:56AM
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    @JBK said:
    I am not saying it's the situation here but I am just sharing what I remember about a similar kind of situation a few years ago. In that situation, the coin wasn't seated properly in the plastic case and it caused a distorted view at one edge.

    If this is an actual variety then there will be others showing up.

    I'll quote myself to reiterate the possibility that if only one out of the OP's six coins shows this effect, they should examine the capsule to see if it is properly closed and the coin is properly seated inside it.

  • RichR
    RichR Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    [Mine is definitely a shadow.]

    But is it worth anything?????

    :)

  • UpGrayedd
    UpGrayedd Posts: 825 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RichR said:
    [Mine is definitely a shadow.]

    But is it worth anything?????

    :)

    The shadow or the coin? ;)

    I only bought one for my personal collection so it's not a huge factor for me, but the value seems to be dropping precipitously.

    Philippians 4:4-7

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @UpGrayedd said:

    @RichR said:
    [Mine is definitely a shadow.]

    But is it worth anything?????

    :)

    The shadow or the coin? ;)

    I only bought one for my personal collection so it's not a huge factor for me, but the value seems to be dropping precipitously.

    I'll pay $1000 if you can send me the shadow.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • UpGrayedd
    UpGrayedd Posts: 825 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @UpGrayedd said:

    @RichR said:
    [Mine is definitely a shadow.]

    But is it worth anything?????

    :)

    The shadow or the coin? ;)

    I only bought one for my personal collection so it's not a huge factor for me, but the value seems to be dropping precipitously.

    I'll pay $1000 if you can send me the shadow.

    After watching an online tutorial I was able to catch the shadow.

    PM me your address and I'll send you my PayPal info. ;) Just be careful when you open the package and don't let it escape.

    Philippians 4:4-7

  • Bochiman
    Bochiman Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RichR said:
    [Mine is definitely a shadow.]

    But is it worth anything?????

    :)

    If you can get the shadow slabbed, then, yes ;)

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • World67
    World67 Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • Wolf359
    Wolf359 Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Wolf359 said:

    @Onastone said:
    Hmmm, gives new meaning to "edge lettering"

    Nice name for the error.

    Not really since "edge lettering" refers to something different.

    Well duh. But the letters are on the edge of the obverse, so edge lettering works whether you like it or not.

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  • IkesT
    IkesT Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZxA3FVUwvk

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Wolf359 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Wolf359 said:

    @Onastone said:
    Hmmm, gives new meaning to "edge lettering"

    Nice name for the error.

    Not really since "edge lettering" refers to something different.

    Well duh. But the letters are on the edge of the obverse, so edge lettering works whether you like it or not.

    That wouldn't be at all confusing. That's like calling both the arctic and the antarctic "The North Pole". No one would know where to look.

    So, it really doesn't work, whether you like it or not.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • Manorcourtman
    Manorcourtman Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like this error has been debunked! I wonder if we will ever hear from the OP again? Prolly not. Sounds like a perfect eBay scam.

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Manorcourtman said:
    Looks like this error has been debunked! I wonder if we will ever hear from the OP again? Prolly not. Sounds like a perfect eBay scam.

    They seem to be logging in every day but they haven't posted since the few posts on the day they started the thread. And the additional photos they promised haven't materialized.

    I vote for an optical illusion. I also speculate that the OP's six Peace Dollars don't all show the same effect because the one is seated improperly in the capsule.

    But who knows...

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