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Question on Buying
Rebelgal
Posts: 10 ✭
I'm collecting Morgan and Peace dollars, strictly PCGS graded MS63 and above depending on dates and rarity. I have a set amount to make purchases every month. Question: is it better to buy that one rare date per month or to buy two to three more common dates, or does in make a difference at all? Thank you for your comments in advance!
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Welcome to the forum.
My suggestion would be not to decide that ahead of time. Instead, buy the coins when they meet your objectives in terms of quality, appeal and price. In other words, let the availability of the right coins determine whether to buy 2 or 3 common examples vs. 1 better date in a given month.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It’s whatever makes you happy, though many will say that it’s better to try to acquire the rare dates sooner than later, before prices keep rising. This advice can be taken in stride depending on the current state of the market imo.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
This ⬆️!! Take your time, find quality coins that make you happy
Don’t buy just to accumulate…
Go for the rare date when possible. You'll be glad you did. Of course, make
sure you pay a fair price.
I wouldn't touch common date Morgan/Peace in 63 to 65 right now. The prices are insane.
There are no "Rare Date" Morgan or Peace Dollars. What there are are less common dates that have been run up in price due to strong collector demand. Will the demand remain strong enough to support current price levels? Only the Shadow knows.
We have 69 and 70 Morgan/Peace common dates now!
Thanks guys for the input. I pulled the trigger on an 1878 8TF that I’ve been drooling over for a week!
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I would buy the coins that please you.
Many people say buy the key dates first. I don’t think that is a good idea. You need to buy the coins that attract you. Saying that I have to buy better date now forces the market in a way. You might end up passing on an attractive deal for a more common date.
You also need to train you grading eye if you are inexperienced. Making a mistake on a common date is a lot cheaper than blowing it on an expensive rarity.
Other's advice here is good, but for me I am trying to prioritize the rarer, harder to find coins. The rare coins appear to be appreciating at a much faster rate. I'm finding that if I turn one down or lose out at auction, I end up paying 10-20% more when another comes up 6-12 months later.
Read the above post. None of these coins are rare and none are hard to find "nice" either, except under the narrow arbitrary criteria typically applied by US collecting. Your user name indicates you collect proofs. With proof Morgan dollars if you buy those, I'd estimate each date shows up for sale at minimum 10 times per year or about once per month. That's my recollection just on Heritage the few times I have checked.
I did, but that's not been my experience. I'm mainly after PL and DMPL morgans which are harder to find than non-PL. But even the 1893-S in VF30-35, an $8-10k coin, hasn't been very available lately according to Coinfacts. There were quite a few last year, but hardly any in 2023. There was a slew of 25's but no 20's lately. So it depends what you're looking for.
Based on his posts, including what I copied below, it’s highly doubtful that he’s looking for Proof (rather than business strike) Morgan and Peace dollars.
“ I'm collecting Morgan and Peace dollars, strictly PCGS graded MS63 and above depending on dates and rarity.”
“Question: is it better to buy that one rare date per month or to buy two to three more common dates,…”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Morgans aren’t rare, even in a specific grade like VF35 for an 1893-S. Coinfacts results exclude GC as well as all private sales. How many are available on collectorscorner or eBay right now?
Answered my own question - take your pick on eBay. And that’s just one place to buy coins.
It's not always just a matter of finding the coin, it's a matter of finding a coin at a reasonable price. Some dealers and Ebay are full of 'wishful thinking.'
That doesn’t make the coin rare though. Morgans are high supply, high demand which keeps prices up.
Conversely, many civil war tokens are low supply and low demand. Unique or nearly unique pieces can be purchased for far less than an 1893-S Morgan, but if you are looking for a specific unique piece, good look finding it for sale - you might wait a lifetime.
eBay isn't known for reasonable prices. Look on Heritage, Stacks, GC, or find a dealer directly.
Disagree. Just because there are a few aspirational prices on ebay doesn't mean there aren't also plenty of reasonable ones.
I have found many bargains or good buys on ebay.
It depends upon your definition of difficult to find.
Look at it this way, for each 120 in existence, if the average holding period is 10 years, one additional coin becomes available for sale every month. This is in addition to any previously unsold. I doubt the typical holding period for Morgan dollars is longer than 10 years.
In your example of the 93-S, it's an expensive coin, so it should be much easier for potential buyers to be aware of it versus less prominent cheaper coins.
I've looked at the looked at the Morgan dollar TPG data intermittently. In a specific TPG grade in PL, DPL, DMPL, a low minority have low or "low" populations but most should come up for sale on average at least once per month.
To me, once per month is "often", though it may not be to most US collectors.
Depends upon what you are looking to buy. Yes, for the typical coins bought by most US collectors, since eBay has so many, this is less true. It will never sell otherwise.
@Rebelgal 😊 welcome to the Forum.
You’ll find many experts and wealth of information here.
Have FUN hunting
.
Welcome to forum!
This is an important post that may have gotten lost; "... I've been drooling over for a week ..."
We'd love to see images. Also, many of us say buy what you like, and your statement is the epidemy of that thought.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
At MS63, no date is absent from the market for that series for long. With different series, I would always suggest to primarily concentrate on those rare opportunities. Doing a date and mintmark set of Morgans, I would get the ones that catch your eye and fit your set when you see them and at the right price naturally. For instance, if you see one with uncommon superlative features, like a detailed central strike on an 1887-O or 1892-O, advantage yourself of the opportunity. For dates that are in high abundance and often meeting your standards, I would wait unless you have a superb deal for the coin. Get to know the characteristics of each date but availing yourself of the wealth of free information on the internet (also found in books of course), looking at a lot of auction archives and active auction and dealer inventory listings, to really be in tune with what is the norm and what is exceptional. Sometimes you won't pay extra for exceptional, or at least not much extra. But not always. In the end, you will have a stand out set.
You’re expecting demand to drop?
Eye appeal.
It's very important to gain ample experience with what qualifies as an MS63 grade or an MS64 grade coin. Form your own set of standards as to what's acceptable and what not. Might want to start with the common cheaper dates and work your way up. It never fails that you'll see something that will raise some questions and you just don't know. It's known, 10 coins in the same grade are not always going to be identical in strike, condition and eye appeal. And someone along the way will eventually be telling you the flaws in the coins you have chosen. But with some hard-earned experience, you'll be able to avoid some of that, perhaps counter and defend your choices.
Good luck to you with your endeavor.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
@Rebelgal ... Welcome aboard. A lot of good advice above - and some conflicting inputs. This is typical though. Coin collecting is a hobby, and a business for some. Therefore, differing perspectives. First of all, learn about the coins that interest you, learn to grade, buy books in your area of interest (Buy the Redbook right away). Above all, have fun. Cheers, RickO
Prices. Probably.
3 years ago an 1881-S Morgan in 63 was a tough sell at $40 Now the CPG is at $90. That coin is more common than most Mint commemoratives.
Fine+ Morgans are at $37 wholesale, up $5 in the last month. This is an item you can buy in truckload quantities. The premium on these has gotten insane.
Wholesale on bags of wheats is at $240.
It's not even clear to me who the retail buyers are. Who is buying millions of FIne Morgans for $40+? Post one on here and half the folks will offer you melt.
Obviously, the market is what it is. But I don't want to be buying very common widgets when their premium haa recently surged to all time highs.
I’ve been trying to wrap my head around this as well, and I’m starting to believe that the telemarketing/HSN marketers are driving the market. There’s a few call centers in my office building that peddle these types of coins to middle aged/elderly collectors/“investors” in bulk quantities, and these guys are crushing it right now.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Yeah, there's some market out there that's not visible to me. Especially the wheats.
If it is telemarketers, I would expect a drop. Those investment groups in the late 80s are what fueled a peak that we haven't come close to regaining after 35v years.
I don't know. My crystal ball is forever broken. But I just don't think this is the best time to chase very common material. I would rather buy modern commems at just above spot than buy common grade, common dollars.
[Side note: this is why I favor type collecting. I can go out and buy one really nice 67/68 Morgan and be done with the pre-1921s.]
I have never regretted buying the rarer/harder to find dates for my collection. I can't say the same for the common dates. Also, whenever I sold a coin or two, the common dates were the first to go.
I have bought a few 1923 Peace Dollars and 1883-O Morgan dollars in MS64 to retail due to the Yellowstone Ranch show and series taking place in those years. Will be stacking them at upcoming show - should make nice display. They seem a little pricey and certainly no interest in being buried in the more expensive dates. I did win a really nice 1883-O MS64+ $ around $110 / CF MV $165 at online auc, - super pickup. I have handled many better date Peace dollars but when selling gets tough at that level (market conditions) one can become desperado selling.
$50 used to be ballpark on a generic Morgan MS63 dollar now it slightly over $100. I don’t see how they are worth that with their tens of thousands pop. Over promoted? Then if u add the sticker game what $130? Get outta here lol.
The time to buy the rarer or scarcer date is when you see it. But never rush into buying that pricey rare or scarce date. Make sure the piece under consideration for purchase meets your high quality standards of excellence because very, very few US coins are truly rare or even all that scarce. Get a second opinion from another you have confidence in if you not quite sure whether to purchase or pass. Oftentimes, that scarce or rare coin that has gotten your attention is for sale for a reason you'd rather not think about. A simple way of saying this is do all you can do to not make someone's problem with a coin your problem.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Since it has not been previously mentioned CAC would become my new friend.
I believe for the specific type you are looking for it is best to get high grade and better looking examples then just a mere better date just for the sake of better date since the eye appeal matters a lot and if you find better dates they should have those characteristics or you are kind of throwing money and hard earned time down the can because they are available
Correct but make sure you like it also
Great thread.
I don’t see a lot of potential in MS63. MS64 and above what I consider as investment grade. However the way USA Classic dollars have been run up I am bearish on them. Any positive margin it’s going to take buyers eager pay the money. In addition you have firmly entrenched competition. Additionally on the buy side expect aggressive bid competition from rich collectors. If you don’t have the pocket it’s game over. Being able to buy right is key. Are you able procure them at 10-20 pct back of bid?
We are in very uncertain times a market crash aka 1989 is certainly possible. I would suggest just a few nice CC issues. Ever considered a $5 Indian set?
It's certainly not a series I would buy at current prices if I cared too much about the financial outcome. But then, I thought the same in early 2020 before the recent price run-up.
The coin in your post or any like it is a bullion substitute widget selling for an astronomically inflated price. I've also wondered who owns all these such common dates. No way it's actual collectors for their Morgan collections. There aren't enough of them. Yes, maybe many non-collectors buying off TV, but I've always assumed it's predominantly financially motivated buyers owning these coins in multiple or large number.
I don't think the rule about "investment grade" applies too much any more, but if it does it applies to common dates. An 1893-S in any grade is "investment grade" IMO.