Grade opinions on this 1909-s indian head cent

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0ronron
0ronron Posts: 248 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I need help with this one..

Thank you, Heavenly Father, for first loving us.

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  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice. VF35

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  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    XF40

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    My first impression was XF40 as well.... nice old IHC and good date/mint. Cheers, RickO

  • ldhair
    ldhair Posts: 7,460 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    40

    Larry

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    EF-40 sharpness, but I'm concerned about the color. There should be any bright coppery color on a piece that has seen this much circulation. I am concerned about dipping or cleaning and then artificial color to bring the brassy look down.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice 40 for sure.

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  • dsessom
    dsessom Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I would guess VF35, but it's had an old cleaning (a VF or even XF copper coin will not have any shiny copper color) so I am not sure it would straight grade. If it were mine, I would submit it anyway just to find out. That's a nice IHC either way!

    Best regards,
    Dwayne F. Sessom
    Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
    My V Nickel Registry Set - https://pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/71874
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2023 1:26PM
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    XF details, cleaned, as the color looks unnatural.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Piano1
    Piano1 Posts: 233 ✭✭✭
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    I'm going to go with XF 40 as well. I have to agree that the color appears just a touch off and there is a bit of a sheen to the surfaces. Regardless, a decent coin. In the "old days", the grading used to be knocked down a level to compensate for cleaning. SO, does that mean VF 35 if that "rule" still applies? I guess now they just call it "XF Details"??

    I remember a time when grades like F-15, VF-25 didn't exist, amongst others. "In my "day", it was just G, VG, F, VF, XF, and maybe AU. Gee...that REALLY dates me!!! Better get my chain and wheelchair out and my pacemaker lubed up. Sheldon's Penny Whimsy went 1-70 but I don't think there were as many numerical grades as there are these days. Probably a good thing though.

    Time for my Preparation X and Geritol for iron Poor Blood. 🤣

    Alan Piano 1

  • Piano1
    Piano1 Posts: 233 ✭✭✭
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    OOOOPS...I meant CANE, not chain! Haven't used the chains for years....

  • coinbuf
    coinbuf Posts: 12,577 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'm in the VF35 cleaned/detail camp.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'll go with a 40 as well

  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    40, but I am not sure it will straight grade.

  • Coin Finder
    Coin Finder Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    XF details questionable color...

    The court jester does not play, but gently pulls the strings…

  • Indianlincoln
    Indianlincoln Posts: 91 ✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:
    XF40

    VF-35 I’d say. Check coins facts photograde. You get more ribbon in XF-40 than the op’s coin

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice to see some original mint luster still left on the coin! 👍🏻

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    XF40BN

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Indianlincoln said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    XF40

    VF-35 I’d say. Check coins facts photograde. You get more ribbon in XF-40 than the op’s coin

    And I'd say XF40 or XF40 details. I appreciate the call-out, especially given the number of people who said XF or XF details. While the ribbon looks 35, the feathers and Liberty are more in line with a 40. But we're splitting hairs.

    I would be more concerned about the possibility of a details grade than the 35 or 40. If the coin is really as yellow around the devices as it appears, it is cleaned.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @OAKSTAR said:
    Nice to see some original mint luster still left on the coin! 👍🏻

    I could be wrong but I don’t think we’re seeing “original luster”.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • mr1931S
    mr1931S Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Appears to me to have been cleaned at one time. Not original luster. I doubt will receive straight grade from PCGS.

    "Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein-

    Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

  • braddick
    braddick Posts: 25,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Slabbable and acceptable as VF35.

  • OldIndianNutKase
    OldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think XF-40 if does not grade .91 Questionable color. I would dip it in acetone prior to submital…….you have little to lose.

  • 2windy2fish
    2windy2fish Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld, agree…the color is off and the “luster/red “ peeking through are from a cleaning…

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld- Hmmm, from cleaning not luster. So that coin would not straight grade? Okay. Market acceptable?..

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @OAKSTAR said:
    @MFeld- Hmmm, from cleaning not luster. So that coin would not straight grade? Okay. Market acceptable?..

    Not if it is a bright as it appears in the photo.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • 0ronron
    0ronron Posts: 248 ✭✭✭
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    Thank you all for your input and opinions!!
    I will go ahead and try to send it in with a couple of others to see what it gets. I will update with the results when I receive them.

    Thanks again,
    Ron

    Thank you, Heavenly Father, for first loving us.

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @0ronron said:
    Thank you all for your input and opinions!!
    I will go ahead and try to send it in with a couple of others to see what it gets. I will update with the results when I receive them.

    Thanks again,
    Ron

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 ✭
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    A little late, but I think xf40 details. I don't like the color and I'm not sure enough about bronze retoning to take a chance on it.

  • lkenefic
    lkenefic Posts: 9,519 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    My initial impression was VF35 based on the ribbon and lower curl on the obverse but the reverse looks more like an XF piece. I'm more concerned about the color... old wipe or very old cleaning?? Pleaselet us know what our hosts say with coin in hand...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

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