The more distressing comments in this thread are not those from people who consider their collections "investments", although I always counsel against such an approach.
I think perhaps you're taking our comments about the investment aspects of our decisions to purchase a bit too literally. Speaking only for myself, I have no fantasy of getting wealthy on my coin collection; I really don't even consider it likely that it will appreciate appreciably (see what I did there? I crack me up!).
When I speak of the investment aspect of my decision, I'm talking about feeling some confidence that I could recoup the clear majority of my purchase price if I had to sell. No, I never buy a coin with any intent to sell in the foreseeable future, and I never spend cash on a coin that foreseeably might be needed for something else in the future. But I spend a lot of money on this hobby, late in life, and my pile of money is finite; I could not do this if I considered that the money I spend is lost money.
@124Spider brings up a good point. Where one is in life will affect how you view expenditures and the future. Older collectors, if on limited income, may be more careful with their purchases. Other older collectors who might have disposable income may not worry too much about resale since the time horizon being alive is diminishing since they have sufficient income for the necessities.
I've had a rough 2022 fighting cancer and as such, I've spent significantly more on my hobby this year than any prior year. I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account. After all, the coins are still an asset and not a liability. Need to enjoy life and each day is precious!
Collect newly minted coins upon their distribution from the mint into the channels of commerce. Look for the highest quality newly minted coins you can find (through new roll searching and from pocket change that includes just released new issues).
Hold onto the highest quality coins you find and monitor what their market value is as the years go by.
For those coins that increase in value to the point where you can sell them for more than face value, sell them.
Instant profit.
For those other coins that do not increase in value, spend them or turn them into the bank (to recover the face value of each coin that you acquired for face value).
Doing the above will result in you never suffering a financial loss and will result in you obtaining some amount of profit (of course you will devote untold hours of time to do the above; and while looking for newly minted coins that are keepers you will likely be bored out of your mind).
The above is a sure fire way to make sure you never suffer a financial loss.
If only my parents (both born in the 1920s), grandparents (all four born in the 1870s and 1880s), great grandparents (all eight of them born in the 1820s and 1830s) and great, great, great grandparents (all 16 of them likely born from 1790 - 1810) had done the above; kept their collections of newly minted coins acquired at face value; and passed them down the generations to me.
@Catbert said: @124Spider brings up a good point. Where one is in life will affect how you view expenditures and the future. Older collectors, if on limited income, may be more careful with their purchases. Other older collectors who might have disposable income may not worry too much about resale since the time horizon being alive is diminishing since they have sufficient income for the necessities.
I've had a rough 2022 fighting cancer and as such, I've spent significantly more on my hobby this year than any prior year. I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account. After all, the coins are still an asset and not a liability. Need to enjoy life and each day is precious!
Doing the above will result in you never suffering a financial loss and will result in you obtaining some amount of profit (of course you will devote untold hours of time to do the above; and while looking for newly minted coins that are keepers you will likely be bored out of your mind).
The above is a sure fire way to make sure you never suffer a financial loss.
I agree with you, except that this type of collecting isn't that interesting to most collectors. To those who do it, it's often a side interest, not their primary collection.
The longer I have been a collector combined with having more discretionary income, the less interest I have in most coins. Coins that interested me in the past, both as a YN and more recently after resuming participation in the hobby in 1998, no longer interest me.
Most coins are too easy to buy, and the narrow definitions of scarcity invented by US collecting don't change it.
I wanted a particular CC in MS65 which at the time was about $1,500. I held off until I hit a coin show. Ended up buying a stellar graded old ANACS MS64 for 1/3 the price. Sent with next submission (raw) and got my 65 that I wanted....worked out that once for sure.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
@Catbert said:
I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account.
I'm having the same thoughts. I've been putting money away for retirement even after being retired.
At what point do you stop saving money & start spending it?
Coin collecting is a hobby for me... part of my entertainment budget. So, after the mortgage and bills, etc. this is my indulgence. I already have retirement/pension and health care deductions taken care of too, and my car is also paid off.
My collection is a bit more modest than most but it suits me fine... or extremely fine as the case may be.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@Catbert said:
I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account.
I'm having the same thoughts. I've been putting money away for retirement even after being retired.
At what point do you stop saving money & start spending it?
When your investment return is more than you make in wages/salary.
@Catbert said:
I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account.
I'm having the same thoughts. I've been putting money away for retirement even after being retired.
At what point do you stop saving money & start spending it?
When your investment return is more than you make in wages/salary.
He did state that he’s retired so no wages/salary unless you wish to include social security income as salary (hah)!
@Catbert said:
I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account.
I'm having the same thoughts. I've been putting money away for retirement even after being retired.
At what point do you stop saving money & start spending it?
There is always the risk of outliving your money. Long term care is not cheap.
Although I could afford most available coins, I like to buy the coin with the best intrinsic and historical value for a low price. For example,
Draped Bust Half Cent with readable date for $3 in the cull bargain bin. It won’t grade but so what ?
Draped Bust Cent for $3 with unreadable date; won’t grade, but it’s real and one can imagine the history it had.
Barber Halves in Good condition for $12; cull Seated Halves for $8-15; perhaps more than melt value but close enough so I don’t feel that I overpaid.
In other words, history on the cheap without the risks intrinsic in expensive coins.
I don’t like holed coins though because something is missing and it would not have been accepted in commerce.
To each his own. If we all bought the same coins it would be expensive and boring.
@Catbert said:
I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account.
I'm having the same thoughts. I've been putting money away for retirement even after being retired.
At what point do you stop saving money & start spending it?
There is always the risk of outliving your money. Long term care is not cheap.
@Catbert said:
I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account.
I'm having the same thoughts. I've been putting money away for retirement even after being retired.
At what point do you stop saving money & start spending it?
There is always the risk of outliving your money. Long term care is not cheap.
Almost a decade ago, was stunned to know that Medicaid laws were signed in late nineties to collect from the estate.
Everyone needs to have an irrevocable trust fund in place wherein after the age of 55, even their home is to be bought through that trust to avoid possible liens being put on them down the road to save their hard earned monies from the grubby hands of Uncle Sam's crony caretakers.
This is not the place for the conversation but I would recommend speaking with a financial professional. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the program and tax/estate laws. Additionally, giving financial advice for everyone is extraordinarily irresponsible.
I've already posted on this thread once, but here's another thought that I thunk once.....
When my grandma passed, we discovered quite a few "collectible" coins. There wasn't anything there to get excited about..... think Littleton and Franklin mint stuff, colorized state quarters and the like. I was initially sad that she had spent some of her living on junk. I mentioned that sentiment to someone, my wife probably, and she commented that collecting those coins probably brought her some joy and entertainment.
In reality, it was a few hundred bucks, at most. It didn't hurt her quality of life or her living conditions. None of her heirs needed the money. So, in the end, she probably derived as much satisfaction from her collecting efforts as I do.
I am at the point where I collect the most interesting thing in my price range, instead of starting with the thing and gauging price.
I like Rarity, on topic (of whatever crazy thing I am interested at that moment), wholesome. Note wholesome is a combination of attributes that include the entire fabric from grade, originality, presentation, rarity and opportunity. I typically will go backwards on that list compromising when the other parts are higher.
@lermish said:
This is not the place for the conversation but I would recommend speaking with a financial professional. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the program and tax/estate laws. Additionally, giving financial advice for everyone is extraordinarily irresponsible.
Thank you.
Have rephrased my post.
What was mentioned stemmed from personal experience with the estate of my late uncle and a very savvy professional estate planning attorney in NYC stepped in at the perfect time to do the needful, since I was dealing with it for my aunt with alzheimers.
Buy whatever is going to make you happy. It’s your money and spend it however you so desire. If five dollar coins from the junk bin is your thing fine. If five figure coins is your thing fine also. My only suggestion is if you’re spending “serious” money know what you’re doing and hopefully find a friend or mentor who can help you.
@BryceM said:
I've already posted on this thread once, but here's another thought that I thunk once.....
When my grandma passed, we discovered quite a few "collectible" coins. There wasn't anything there to get excited about..... think Littleton and Franklin mint stuff, colorized state quarters and the like. I was initially sad that she had spent some of her living on junk. I mentioned that sentiment to someone, my wife probably, and she commented that collecting those coins probably brought her some joy and entertainment.
In reality, it was a few hundred bucks, at most. It didn't hurt her quality of life or her living conditions. None of her heirs needed the money. So, in the end, she probably derived as much satisfaction from her collecting efforts as I do.
At a much cheaper price point too!
Hopefully, she wasn't buying them thinking you would enjoy them. I don't mean to be flip - I've had people do it for me.
No, she pretty carefully outlined where things were supposed to go. No mention of the coins was made. I don't think she viewed them as a significant asset.
@Catbert said:
I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account.
I'm having the same thoughts. I've been putting money away for retirement even after being retired.
At what point do you stop saving money & start spending it?
There is always the risk of outliving your money. Long term care is not cheap.
My take on this discussion - if you forgive the stretch analogy - is that building a coin collection is like constructing a building.
Rule #1, "what's my budget???"
Some are building a box of 20 taj mahal. Some are building a sprawling compound. Others a fuctional modular home. Some keep renovating and adding on a whim. There are those where all of the brick, stone, or siding needs to match and complement each other.
Some are worried about the resale value. Others will let the estate handle it.
Is it going to match the neighborhood or be full of quirky character?
There's a cadre of property flippers. Others wish to keep their little nook in the family for generations.
Quality of building materials is important. Almost nobody wants to have slapped together junk. For perspective though, one person's cheap junk is another person's cost-effective material. The real question is how much are you willing to stretch for good material. Should I go for hardwood floors or laminate? Will anybody else notice? Will I care later? The one guy on TV said "don't over-improve your house" though. Decisions decisions.
Should I pay to have an expert check the wiring to make sure the place isn't going to be a torched mess somewhere down the line?
Is this going to be my dream home? Am I overstretching myself here? How long am I willing to wait to get it built right before I can claim construction is finished?
This is easy I buy what I want but I won’t go crazy. There is always a way to get the coin you want you just need to want it enough to do the work to get it.
Let me start by saying that for the most part, the money I use for my hobby is discretionary income. This means if I were to loose it all, it would not be devastating to my way of living. If your collection is part of an investment portfolio or it's money you need to get back, then disregard what I'm about to say.
To answer the question, I guess I subscribe to "buying the best I can afford" for a given coin. At the same time (like some have already said) that generally falls in place with buying the coin grade just before the big jump in price. This is where my thinking is different than most. This is a hobby for me and I consider myself a true hobbyist. That (to me) means I don't care about the liquidity and the investment aspect of collecting coins. Sorry to sound selfish and grim, but this money I spend on my hobby is for me and my enjoyment only. I don't care what someone can get for it when I'm dead. If having more coins makes you happier than having less coins of greater quality, please by all means collect that way. That to me is what a hobby is about. Doing it in a way that makes you the happiest, not what other people think you should do. As someone already mentioned, the quickest way for me to leave this hobby is to think about the return on my investment. That to me sounds like a job. I already have one of those and I don't do it for fun.
Enjoy what you collect, otherwise what's the point? You might as well just be a dealer that needs to find another hobby to make you happy.
@AUandAG said:
I wanted a particular CC in MS65 which at the time was about $1,500. I held off until I hit a coin show. Ended up buying a stellar graded old ANACS MS64 for 1/3 the price. Sent with next submission (raw) and got my 65 that I wanted....worked out that once for sure.
bob
One thing I’ve noticed on eBay is at times I’ll find a coin that for whatever reason was mostly graded at ngc Vs pcgs so the exact coin in a pcgs slab is substantially more than ngc (I’ve seen double and triple). I’m to the point of buying ngc and just crossing them which creates more value and puts the coin in a slab I prefer.
As for buying the best you can afford not sure I follow. Extreme example but at what point would that be? Is one coin once a year that point? Is one coin every five years that point? You see? If the thought is…. This week I have $5k to spend so max it out…ok? You could also spread the risk and buy five $1000 coins and could see a higher return that way. Guess it’s going to be different for everyone.
@AUandAG said:
I wanted a particular CC in MS65 which at the time was about $1,500. I held off until I hit a coin show. Ended up buying a stellar graded old ANACS MS64 for 1/3 the price. Sent with next submission (raw) and got my 65 that I wanted....worked out that once for sure.
bob
One thing I’ve noticed on eBay is at times I’ll find a coin that for whatever reason was mostly graded at ngc Vs pcgs so the exact coin in a pcgs slab is substantially more than ngc (I’ve seen double and triple). I’m to the point of buying ngc and just crossing them which creates more value and puts the coin in a slab I prefer.
As for buying the best you can afford not sure I follow. Extreme example but at what point would that be? Is one coin once a year that point? Is one coin every five years that point? You see? If the thought is…. This week I have $5k to spend so max it out…ok? You could also spread the risk and buy five $1000 coins and could see a higher return that way. Guess it’s going to be different for everyone.
Generally, crossing NGC coins to PCGS holders at the same grade, isn’t nearly as easy as might be thought from reading your post. That applies even for the very sharpest collectors and dealers.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree with the OP- the saying is an aphorism that may or may not be true in each individual situation.
If I’m looking for a specific coin, and I have plenty of time, and it is frequently available in many grades, then yes I will buy the best I can afford.
But if it is generally not available and one suddenly pops up, and I know it won’t be available for long, then I might buy it in a lower grade for a lower price than I was willing to spend, not knowing when I might be able to find a nicer one.
Generally, crossing NGC coins to PCGS holders at the same grade, isn’t nearly as easy as might be thought from reading your post. That applies even for the very sharpest collectors and dealers.
I’m guessing this is only a one way street then? If this is a known fact, why would one grade at NGC? Artificially looking for better grades?
But if it is generally not available and one suddenly pops up, and I know it won’t be available for long, then I might buy it in a lower grade for a lower price than I was willing to spend, not knowing when I might be able to find a nicer one.
I second this. In my set, many of the issues are scarce to rare. I recently bought two problem coins (one cleaned but attractive, one polished and ugly) because there only exist 17 and 10 straight graded examples respectively.
The first is relatively available, one was publicly auctioned less than 6 years ago. The second has never been available in public auction (at least in records that I can find). I would happily spend ten times as much as I did but it's simply not an option.
Another way to look at this. If you buy the best you can afford, you probably won't have to worry about upgrading the coin as soon as a better one appears, so it's not a bad collecting strategy. But for the purposes of investment, a better rule would be to only buy the best that exists, assuming you think it represents good value, because the truth is that it's really hard to get a good ROI on a coin unless you buy something that will drive bidders wild when the time comes to sell.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Generally, crossing NGC coins to PCGS holders at the same grade, isn’t nearly as easy as might be thought from reading your post. That applies even for the very sharpest collectors and dealers.
I’m guessing this is only a one way street then? If this is a known fact, why would one grade at NGC? Artificially looking for better grades?
It's an assumption, not a fact. As for why someone would use NGC over PCGS, it could be fees, turnaround times, proximity to grading location.
Generally, crossing NGC coins to PCGS holders at the same grade, isn’t nearly as easy as might be thought from reading your post. That applies even for the very sharpest collectors and dealers.
I’m guessing this is only a one way street then? If this is a known fact, why would one grade at NGC? Artificially looking for better grades?
It's an assumption, not a fact. As for why someone would use NGC over PCGS, it could be fees, turnaround times, proximity to grading location.
Generally, crossing NGC coins to PCGS holders at the same grade, isn’t nearly as easy as might be thought from reading your post. That applies even for the very sharpest collectors and dealers.
I’m guessing this is only a one way street then? If this is a known fact, why would one grade at NGC? Artificially looking for better grades?
Some people prefer NGC for their collection. It can be hard to cross from PCGS to NGC in some series.
Generally, crossing NGC coins to PCGS holders at the same grade, isn’t nearly as easy as might be thought from reading your post. That applies even for the very sharpest collectors and dealers.
I’m guessing this is only a one way street then? If this is a known fact, why would one grade at NGC? Artificially looking for better grades?
It's an assumption, not a fact. As for why someone would use NGC over PCGS, it could be fees, turnaround times, proximity to grading location.
@AUandAG said:
I wanted a particular CC in MS65 which at the time was about $1,500. I held off until I hit a coin show. Ended up buying a stellar graded old ANACS MS64 for 1/3 the price. Sent with next submission (raw) and got my 65 that I wanted....worked out that once for sure.
bob
One thing I’ve noticed on eBay is at times I’ll find a coin that for whatever reason was mostly graded at ngc Vs pcgs so the exact coin in a pcgs slab is substantially more than ngc (I’ve seen double and triple). I’m to the point of buying ngc and just crossing them which creates more value and puts the coin in a slab I prefer.
As for buying the best you can afford not sure I follow. Extreme example but at what point would that be? Is one coin once a year that point? Is one coin every five years that point? You see? If the thought is…. This week I have $5k to spend so max it out…ok? You could also spread the risk and buy five $1000 coins and could see a higher return that way. Guess it’s going to be different for everyone.
Generally, crossing NGC coins to PCGS holders at the same grade, isn’t nearly as easy as might be thought from reading your post. That applies even for the very sharpest collectors and dealers.
@logger7 said:
Also, don't overpay. Think like a businessman or dealer if you are assembling a quality collection; ie, if you needed to sell that coin in the next few months, how liquid would it be, how much money would you lose if any?
If you are assembling a quality collection, you may need to overpay for some coins. I agree with you to a point. Coins that are easy to obtain, moderns, Most 20th century coins, and anything that is plentiful should not be overpaid for.
If you are assembling a collection of pre-1900 coins in xf or better you may have to overpay just to get the coin. A friend of mine said "You may have overpaid, but at least you have it."
Most Morgan dollars are available in ms 63, so no need to overpay here.
But what if you are looking for a coin for years and can't find just the right one? Then you find it and think it is $100 too much? Do you buy it, or wait for years before another one hits the market?
I have lots of coins pre-1900 that I overpaid for when I bought them, but today, I can't find them to purchase. Glad I bought them.
I was trying to assemble a set of circulation strike 3 cent silvers (1863-1872) in vf-au condition it took me about 45 years, I just finished this set with an 1863 AU 55 that I bought last week from Heritage. I don't even have it yet. I don't know if I overpaid, but at least I have it. The price guides are way out of date for these coins. There simply aren't many around. Most collectors just give-up on the circulation strikes and get Proofs.
@rec78 said:
I was trying to assemble a set of circulation strike 3 cent silvers (1863-1872) in vf-au condition it took me about 45 years, I just finished this set with an 1863 AU 55 that I bought last week from Heritage. I don't even have it yet. I don't know if I overpaid, but at least I have it. The price guides are way out of date for these coins. There simply aren't many around. Most collectors just give-up on the circulation strikes and get Proofs.
Or buy in an MS grade if they can afford it, though this isn't cheap.
The mintages are low to very low, so it isn't unusual for a low denomination coin of this age to have few to very few survivors in mid to high circulated quality. Often, the distribution has a majority on the low end and a smaller but still large proportion in higher grades.
All of these dates have sold at least two times on Heritage in the last year, though few in the grades you mentioned. Depending upon the number of duplicates and coins not graded, the TPG counts are low by US standards but not otherwise.
First off, like many others have said in this thread, if you are fundamentally a collector, the money you use to purchase coins should be part of your discretionary income, otherwise you will be miserable. I enjoy the idea that the coins I purchase could have future value for me if I ever decided to sell, I consider what I have now a sunk cost. I could understand future resale value being an incentive for being a collector though, I do not see anything wrong with that.
As for purchasing the "best you can afford," is that statement not knowledge-based? If you are a collector, especially if you have focused on a certain series, you should always be thinking scarcity, wear, surfaces, strike, eye appeal. If the coin reaches your threshold, and the price fits your budget for that coin, you should feel guilt-free making the purchase. I think other posters have essentially made the same point as well.
A lot of the fun in this hobby is the hunt. I love the feeling of finding and purchasing a coin I want, the act feels impulsive, but there is a very calculated decision-making process behind it.
Comments
I think perhaps you're taking our comments about the investment aspects of our decisions to purchase a bit too literally. Speaking only for myself, I have no fantasy of getting wealthy on my coin collection; I really don't even consider it likely that it will appreciate appreciably (see what I did there? I crack me up!).
When I speak of the investment aspect of my decision, I'm talking about feeling some confidence that I could recoup the clear majority of my purchase price if I had to sell. No, I never buy a coin with any intent to sell in the foreseeable future, and I never spend cash on a coin that foreseeably might be needed for something else in the future. But I spend a lot of money on this hobby, late in life, and my pile of money is finite; I could not do this if I considered that the money I spend is lost money.
@124Spider brings up a good point. Where one is in life will affect how you view expenditures and the future. Older collectors, if on limited income, may be more careful with their purchases. Other older collectors who might have disposable income may not worry too much about resale since the time horizon being alive is diminishing since they have sufficient income for the necessities.
I've had a rough 2022 fighting cancer and as such, I've spent significantly more on my hobby this year than any prior year. I decided that I prefer having a better coin collection than watching numbers in a bank account. After all, the coins are still an asset and not a liability. Need to enjoy life and each day is precious!
Collect newly minted coins upon their distribution from the mint into the channels of commerce. Look for the highest quality newly minted coins you can find (through new roll searching and from pocket change that includes just released new issues).
Hold onto the highest quality coins you find and monitor what their market value is as the years go by.
For those coins that increase in value to the point where you can sell them for more than face value, sell them.
Instant profit.
For those other coins that do not increase in value, spend them or turn them into the bank (to recover the face value of each coin that you acquired for face value).
Doing the above will result in you never suffering a financial loss and will result in you obtaining some amount of profit (of course you will devote untold hours of time to do the above; and while looking for newly minted coins that are keepers you will likely be bored out of your mind).
The above is a sure fire way to make sure you never suffer a financial loss.
If only my parents (both born in the 1920s), grandparents (all four born in the 1870s and 1880s), great grandparents (all eight of them born in the 1820s and 1830s) and great, great, great grandparents (all 16 of them likely born from 1790 - 1810) had done the above; kept their collections of newly minted coins acquired at face value; and passed them down the generations to me.
We're all praying for you.
I agree with you, except that this type of collecting isn't that interesting to most collectors. To those who do it, it's often a side interest, not their primary collection.
The longer I have been a collector combined with having more discretionary income, the less interest I have in most coins. Coins that interested me in the past, both as a YN and more recently after resuming participation in the hobby in 1998, no longer interest me.
Most coins are too easy to buy, and the narrow definitions of scarcity invented by US collecting don't change it.
I wanted a particular CC in MS65 which at the time was about $1,500. I held off until I hit a coin show. Ended up buying a stellar graded old ANACS MS64 for 1/3 the price. Sent with next submission (raw) and got my 65 that I wanted....worked out that once for sure.
bob
Thanks for your positivity and fun that you add.
I'm having the same thoughts. I've been putting money away for retirement even after being retired.
At what point do you stop saving money & start spending it?
My Saint Set
Coin collecting is a hobby for me... part of my entertainment budget. So, after the mortgage and bills, etc. this is my indulgence. I already have retirement/pension and health care deductions taken care of too, and my car is also paid off.
My collection is a bit more modest than most but it suits me fine... or extremely fine as the case may be.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
a simple rule i follow whatever gets my notice and is within what my budget i get
When your investment return is more than you make in wages/salary.
He did state that he’s retired so no wages/salary unless you wish to include social security income as salary (hah)!
There is always the risk of outliving your money. Long term care is not cheap.
Although I could afford most available coins, I like to buy the coin with the best intrinsic and historical value for a low price. For example,
Draped Bust Half Cent with readable date for $3 in the cull bargain bin. It won’t grade but so what ?
Draped Bust Cent for $3 with unreadable date; won’t grade, but it’s real and one can imagine the history it had.
Barber Halves in Good condition for $12; cull Seated Halves for $8-15; perhaps more than melt value but close enough so I don’t feel that I overpaid.
In other words, history on the cheap without the risks intrinsic in expensive coins.
I don’t like holed coins though because something is missing and it would not have been accepted in commerce.
To each his own. If we all bought the same coins it would be expensive and boring.
True.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-10-14/debt-after-death-the-painful-blow-of-medicaid-estate-recovery
Almost a decade ago, was stunned to know that Medicaid laws were signed in late nineties to collect from the estate.
https://ctmirror.org/2013/12/27/when-getting-medicaid-now-means-repaying-state-later/
Probably a good idea to discuss with an estate planning attorney and avoid possible liens being put on them down the road.
** Editing it for sentence construction as pointed out by @lermish
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
This is not the place for the conversation but I would recommend speaking with a financial professional. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the program and tax/estate laws. Additionally, giving financial advice for everyone is extraordinarily irresponsible.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US Gold Showcase --- World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
I've already posted on this thread once, but here's another thought that I thunk once.....
When my grandma passed, we discovered quite a few "collectible" coins. There wasn't anything there to get excited about..... think Littleton and Franklin mint stuff, colorized state quarters and the like. I was initially sad that she had spent some of her living on junk. I mentioned that sentiment to someone, my wife probably, and she commented that collecting those coins probably brought her some joy and entertainment.
In reality, it was a few hundred bucks, at most. It didn't hurt her quality of life or her living conditions. None of her heirs needed the money. So, in the end, she probably derived as much satisfaction from her collecting efforts as I do.
At a much cheaper price point too!
I am at the point where I collect the most interesting thing in my price range, instead of starting with the thing and gauging price.
I like Rarity, on topic (of whatever crazy thing I am interested at that moment), wholesome. Note wholesome is a combination of attributes that include the entire fabric from grade, originality, presentation, rarity and opportunity. I typically will go backwards on that list compromising when the other parts are higher.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Thank you.
Have rephrased my post.
What was mentioned stemmed from personal experience with the estate of my late uncle and a very savvy professional estate planning attorney in NYC stepped in at the perfect time to do the needful, since I was dealing with it for my aunt with alzheimers.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
My two cents:
Buy whatever is going to make you happy. It’s your money and spend it however you so desire. If five dollar coins from the junk bin is your thing fine. If five figure coins is your thing fine also. My only suggestion is if you’re spending “serious” money know what you’re doing and hopefully find a friend or mentor who can help you.
This all goes back to what I've said, before, about finding the optimum grade level.
For example, I can afford a MS 68 Walker but a 65 or 66 suits me just fine.
In the business world, it is the 'Law of Diminishing Returns'.
Does the increase in cost (grade) give you a proportionate amount of investment return or satisfaction??
If the answer is 'NO', then you have found your optimal grade.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Hopefully, she wasn't buying them thinking you would enjoy them. I don't mean to be flip - I've had people do it for me.
No, she pretty carefully outlined where things were supposed to go. No mention of the coins was made. I don't think she viewed them as a significant asset.
I've never understood [political discussion redacted].
My take on this discussion - if you forgive the stretch analogy - is that building a coin collection is like constructing a building.
Rule #1, "what's my budget???"
Some are building a box of 20 taj mahal. Some are building a sprawling compound. Others a fuctional modular home. Some keep renovating and adding on a whim. There are those where all of the brick, stone, or siding needs to match and complement each other.
Some are worried about the resale value. Others will let the estate handle it.
Is it going to match the neighborhood or be full of quirky character?
There's a cadre of property flippers. Others wish to keep their little nook in the family for generations.
Quality of building materials is important. Almost nobody wants to have slapped together junk. For perspective though, one person's cheap junk is another person's cost-effective material. The real question is how much are you willing to stretch for good material. Should I go for hardwood floors or laminate? Will anybody else notice? Will I care later? The one guy on TV said "don't over-improve your house" though. Decisions decisions.
Should I pay to have an expert check the wiring to make sure the place isn't going to be a torched mess somewhere down the line?
Is this going to be my dream home? Am I overstretching myself here? How long am I willing to wait to get it built right before I can claim construction is finished?
This is easy I buy what I want but I won’t go crazy. There is always a way to get the coin you want you just need to want it enough to do the work to get it.
Hoard the keys.
Let me start by saying that for the most part, the money I use for my hobby is discretionary income. This means if I were to loose it all, it would not be devastating to my way of living. If your collection is part of an investment portfolio or it's money you need to get back, then disregard what I'm about to say.
To answer the question, I guess I subscribe to "buying the best I can afford" for a given coin. At the same time (like some have already said) that generally falls in place with buying the coin grade just before the big jump in price. This is where my thinking is different than most. This is a hobby for me and I consider myself a true hobbyist. That (to me) means I don't care about the liquidity and the investment aspect of collecting coins. Sorry to sound selfish and grim, but this money I spend on my hobby is for me and my enjoyment only. I don't care what someone can get for it when I'm dead. If having more coins makes you happier than having less coins of greater quality, please by all means collect that way. That to me is what a hobby is about. Doing it in a way that makes you the happiest, not what other people think you should do. As someone already mentioned, the quickest way for me to leave this hobby is to think about the return on my investment. That to me sounds like a job. I already have one of those and I don't do it for fun.
Enjoy what you collect, otherwise what's the point? You might as well just be a dealer that needs to find another hobby to make you happy.
Enjoy your hobby.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
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One thing I’ve noticed on eBay is at times I’ll find a coin that for whatever reason was mostly graded at ngc Vs pcgs so the exact coin in a pcgs slab is substantially more than ngc (I’ve seen double and triple). I’m to the point of buying ngc and just crossing them which creates more value and puts the coin in a slab I prefer.
As for buying the best you can afford not sure I follow. Extreme example but at what point would that be? Is one coin once a year that point? Is one coin every five years that point? You see? If the thought is…. This week I have $5k to spend so max it out…ok? You could also spread the risk and buy five $1000 coins and could see a higher return that way. Guess it’s going to be different for everyone.
Generally, crossing NGC coins to PCGS holders at the same grade, isn’t nearly as easy as might be thought from reading your post. That applies even for the very sharpest collectors and dealers.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But what if you can't afford the best you can understand?
I like buying eye appealing coins.
These can be expensive, but don't have to be. They can be outright cheap.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/978805/post-your-inexpensive-but-interesting-items
Study lower graded examples or a more affordable type?
But with if the coins are just that interesting?
Here, I prefer to study but not buy, also practiced by RWB.
I agree with the OP- the saying is an aphorism that may or may not be true in each individual situation.
If I’m looking for a specific coin, and I have plenty of time, and it is frequently available in many grades, then yes I will buy the best I can afford.
But if it is generally not available and one suddenly pops up, and I know it won’t be available for long, then I might buy it in a lower grade for a lower price than I was willing to spend, not knowing when I might be able to find a nicer one.
I’m guessing this is only a one way street then? If this is a known fact, why would one grade at NGC? Artificially looking for better grades?
I second this. In my set, many of the issues are scarce to rare. I recently bought two problem coins (one cleaned but attractive, one polished and ugly) because there only exist 17 and 10 straight graded examples respectively.
The first is relatively available, one was publicly auctioned less than 6 years ago. The second has never been available in public auction (at least in records that I can find). I would happily spend ten times as much as I did but it's simply not an option.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US Gold Showcase --- World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Another way to look at this. If you buy the best you can afford, you probably won't have to worry about upgrading the coin as soon as a better one appears, so it's not a bad collecting strategy. But for the purposes of investment, a better rule would be to only buy the best that exists, assuming you think it represents good value, because the truth is that it's really hard to get a good ROI on a coin unless you buy something that will drive bidders wild when the time comes to sell.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It's an assumption, not a fact. As for why someone would use NGC over PCGS, it could be fees, turnaround times, proximity to grading location.
Is it really an assumption though? 😅
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Some people prefer NGC for their collection. It can be hard to cross from PCGS to NGC in some series.
It really depends on the coin type.
.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And, of course, the other way around.
Sometimes buying what you can afford is determined by your Wife's idea of affordable.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
If you are assembling a quality collection, you may need to overpay for some coins. I agree with you to a point. Coins that are easy to obtain, moderns, Most 20th century coins, and anything that is plentiful should not be overpaid for.
If you are assembling a collection of pre-1900 coins in xf or better you may have to overpay just to get the coin. A friend of mine said "You may have overpaid, but at least you have it."
Most Morgan dollars are available in ms 63, so no need to overpay here.
But what if you are looking for a coin for years and can't find just the right one? Then you find it and think it is $100 too much? Do you buy it, or wait for years before another one hits the market?
I have lots of coins pre-1900 that I overpaid for when I bought them, but today, I can't find them to purchase. Glad I bought them.
I was trying to assemble a set of circulation strike 3 cent silvers (1863-1872) in vf-au condition it took me about 45 years, I just finished this set with an 1863 AU 55 that I bought last week from Heritage. I don't even have it yet. I don't know if I overpaid, but at least I have it. The price guides are way out of date for these coins. There simply aren't many around. Most collectors just give-up on the circulation strikes and get Proofs.
Or buy in an MS grade if they can afford it, though this isn't cheap.
The mintages are low to very low, so it isn't unusual for a low denomination coin of this age to have few to very few survivors in mid to high circulated quality. Often, the distribution has a majority on the low end and a smaller but still large proportion in higher grades.
All of these dates have sold at least two times on Heritage in the last year, though few in the grades you mentioned. Depending upon the number of duplicates and coins not graded, the TPG counts are low by US standards but not otherwise.
If I did that and was half smart, I would have no coins.
First off, like many others have said in this thread, if you are fundamentally a collector, the money you use to purchase coins should be part of your discretionary income, otherwise you will be miserable. I enjoy the idea that the coins I purchase could have future value for me if I ever decided to sell, I consider what I have now a sunk cost. I could understand future resale value being an incentive for being a collector though, I do not see anything wrong with that.
As for purchasing the "best you can afford," is that statement not knowledge-based? If you are a collector, especially if you have focused on a certain series, you should always be thinking scarcity, wear, surfaces, strike, eye appeal. If the coin reaches your threshold, and the price fits your budget for that coin, you should feel guilt-free making the purchase. I think other posters have essentially made the same point as well.
A lot of the fun in this hobby is the hunt. I love the feeling of finding and purchasing a coin I want, the act feels impulsive, but there is a very calculated decision-making process behind it.