Should something be added to this PCGS cert to warn collectors?
burfle23
Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
6 different internet sellers listing this particular "certed" Morgan since this summer:
The latest one even images the cert:
Unfortunately the on-line cert has no image to compare to the counterfeits...
4
Comments
You would think so. And at this point you'd think all slabs would be imaged to show what it looked like after encapsulation. That would go some distance to helping people determine a fake slab.
Yes, PCGS should add a warning to the cert verification page.
fwiw, this has been brought up before and while on the surface it seems like a good idea and i suppose a few notifications on cert pages is better than none but if we put warnings on cert pages about cert numbers being duplicated for fakes, there will need to be tens of thousands, at least.
i personally have seen probably over 1000 different ones over the past 10+ years.
anyone remember that crazy thorough thread(s) i did a long time ago, the one @MsMorrisine contributed to?
that thread was a DROP in the bucket.
not trying to discourage, just inform the reality of the situation. i presume it is worse than we know.
if someone thought it would be truly helpful, a tracking thread by denom and cert numerical order certainly would help, as it would be a "master" reference point. something like the threads that are tracking doilies, 2.1s etc.
i didn't find it in my bookmarks disappointingly but i'll post the link just for inspiration when i come across it again.
Absolutely.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not the same but a related discussion on fake slabs. At this link, back in June, PCGS indicates to be working on a method to report fake slabs suggested by MFeld. Then I suggested to have a page and link on the cert page for fakes. I have not heard anything on this since. I would say do both. Maybe also a page that lists all the reported fake slab certs.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13265434/#Comment_13265434
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13265474/#Comment_13265474
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yq4KA0mUnC8 - Dream On (Aerosmith cover) via Morgan James & Postmodern Jukebox
https://youtube.com/watch?v=m3lF2qEA2cw - Creep (Radiohead cover) via Haley Reinhart & Postmodern Jukebox
RLJ 1958 - 2023
ok, found it.
if i were to do it again, i'd not add so much info. just list the certs by denom and sequentially.
first thread
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/870746/occ-counterfeit-cert-number-tracking-thread-in-first-post-old
redux
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13221974
msmorrisine's big contributions at kinda intermingled but they were a lot.
Thought I would add an image of this latest one's mm compared to genuine VAMs:
With all of the different slab varieties now (and in the future), it might be time to add a pic of obverse and reverse of slab. This would not help now, but would in a few years.
I found the genuine from an APMEX listing:
I appreciate the links here for discussion!
I as well wonder where this process is at this time?
@HeatherBoyd
Probably this has been proposed before, but if the genuine original can be located (as was done above),
a good solution would be to pay the owner to reholder it (at Express speed) with a new cert # at the same grade.
Then mark the old cert # as COUNTERFEIT on the Cert Verification page.
Another part of a good anti-counterfeit effort would be to have a reward for people who find counterfeits,
especially if they find the genuine original.
https://www.apmex.com/product/10563/1881-cc-morgan-dollar-ms-64-pcgs
APMEX photoshops some of their coins and slabs ... you never know what you will get.
A good way to get the hammer.
Smitten with DBLCs.
The reality is that the people that are going to buy these coins are not going to take the time to research the coin much less have any idea that Cert Verification exists…
Just when I thought this couldn't get weirder...
With the growing proliferation of counterfeit coins and slabs, a tracking method/reference from PCGS would be most welcome. Cheers, RickO