Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
I regularly watch 1922 listings. Finishing up the manuscript for my book on 1922 cents.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@CaptHenway said:
I regularly watch 1922 listings. Finishing up the manuscript for my book on 1922 cents.
Great! then its probably not necessary for me to double your tracks, seeing how the 22 is just an add on for me. Its for sure you've better got them covered than me.
Mark
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Looks like a worn out 1928 to me, but I did not feel like getting into an argument with the man.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Anyone care to speculate as to what is up with this coin and the Seller's other coins? See the details below each one.
Hijacked account?
Fake slabs?
Martians?
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
I have a request.
What is the opinion about the following eight coins, as in - are they genuine and how many are actually considered as weak "D"?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers.
@vulcanize said:
I have a request.
What is the opinion about the following eight coins, as in - are they genuine and how many are actually considered as weak "D"?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers.
To be honest with you, in my opinion the term "Weak D" has been used so many different ways that it has become meaningless. In my book on the cents of 1922 I will be offering alternative terms for the coins between normal D's and No D's.
That said, I don't think that there is anything in this group that qualifies as a "Weak D" under CURRENT TPG standards.
TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@CaptHenway said:
WOW!
Just Sweet Fanny Adams WOW!
Check out the obverse!!!
Thought we should save the photo.
Amazing, ain't it!
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@CaptHenway said:
To be honest with you, in my opinion the term "Weak D" has been used so many different ways that it has become meaningless. In my book on the cents of 1922 I will be offering alternative terms for the coins between normal D's and No D's.
That said, I don't think that there is anything in this group that qualifies as a "Weak D" under CURRENT TPG standards.
TD
Thank you. My curiousity was piqued about the "No D" and "weak D" designations because the following coin has been graded by our hosts as VF 25 "weak D".
kindly excuse the quality of the old pics from the archive that seem to have been taken with a potato.
Can anyone explain to me what their fascination with 1922 is, regardless of the mint location, to them? I am sure there is a reason for some but I am curious of the interest beyond other early Lincolns.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@sedulous said:
Can anyone explain to me what their fascination with 1922 is, regardless of the mint location, to them? I am sure there is a reason for some but I am curious of the interest beyond other early Lincolns.
The Treasury had a glut of used coins in 1922 and had every intention of only striking Silver Dollars and Double Eagles as backing for Silver Certificates and Gold Certificates, respectively, plus a few commemorative issues. Nothing for circulation, though obviously some of the silver dollars and double eagles did circulate eventually.
Then in November of 1921 the U.S. finally signed a Peace Treaty with Germany and Austria, officially ending World War One as far as we were concerned. The Peace dollar was rushed into production, beginning on Dec. 28, 1921. It was intended to continue the design over into 1922 and beyond.
However, the design as rushed into production was in too high a relief, and the Mint could not strike them up properly. Therefore, striking of dollars was delayed for several weeks while the designs were lowered. Unable to strike gold, the Denver Mint struck cents in January and February of 1922 just to keep the workers busy. They did not have enough dies to use, so they kept using the ones they had well after they normally would have been retired. The quality suffered severely, and for a variety of reasons that will be explained in the book some coins left the Denver Mint without mint marks. Since Philadelphia did not strike cents in 1922, this caused considerable confusion and collector interest.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@CaptHenway said:
WOW!
Just Sweet Fanny Adams WOW!
Check out the obverse!!!
Thought we should save the photo.
Amazing, ain't it!
Can't believe this is still up on eBay
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@Aegis3 said:
A thought popped up in my head. Could it be some sort of gambling or board game token?
I highly doubt it.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Is this common practice? The seller illustrates three different coins, one of which has been scrunched in a lucky piece holder, and says in the description area "similar to the coins shown."
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
In studying the cents of 1922 I have occasionally picked up an interesting encased 1922-D cent just because, but sometimes I have seen pieces where the condition of the coin does not match the condition of the holder. I have suspected that somebody attempted to get a good price for a cull 1922-D cent (of which there are many, because people saved them for the date) and forced it into a random encasement holder from which the original coin had been removed sometime back.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
1922 is my favorite date LC. I actually found a 1922-D in circulation back in the day (early '60's). Someone should write a book about 1922 Lincoln cents, the lowest mintage year of all Lincoln cents.
"A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new."
---Albert Einstein (b. 14Mar1879--d. 18Apr1955)
@mr1931S said:
1922 is my favorite date LC. I actually found a 1922-D in circulation back in the day (early '60's). Someone should write a book about 1922 Lincoln cents, the lowest mintage year of all Lincoln cents.
I have written a book about the cents of 1922, but am having trouble convincing my publisher of choice that there is a market for it.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@mr1931S said:
1922 is my favorite date LC. I actually found a 1922-D in circulation back in the day (early '60's). Someone should write a book about 1922 Lincoln cents, the lowest mintage year of all Lincoln cents.
I have written a book about the cents of 1922, but am having trouble convincing my publisher of choice that there is a market for it.
The market for it possibly as a gift or novelty item, shelve fillers for the academites. With the right cover it could sell millions.
@mr1931S said:
1922 is my favorite date LC. I actually found a 1922-D in circulation back in the day (early '60's). Someone should write a book about 1922 Lincoln cents, the lowest mintage year of all Lincoln cents.
I have written a book about the cents of 1922, but am having trouble convincing my publisher of choice that there is a market for it.
Maybe self-publishing would work out. I'm good for purchasing a copy.
"A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new."
---Albert Einstein (b. 14Mar1879--d. 18Apr1955)
@CaptHenway said:
In studying the cents of 1922 I have occasionally picked up an interesting encased 1922-D cent just because, but sometimes I have seen pieces where the condition of the coin does not match the condition of the holder. I have suspected that somebody attempted to get a good price for a cull 1922-D cent (of which there are many, because people saved them for the date) and forced it into a random encasement holder from which the original coin had been removed sometime back.
Tough to tell from those pictures, but I do not think the condition of the coin is out of line with the condition of the holder. Nor do I see any evidence of another coin being removed, the interface between the coin and the holder seems undisturbed.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Do most collectors still view the 22 as an variety or error? Would it still hold its interest if Philadelphia cents were struck that year? I assume it's value would be greatly reduced and it would fall into a lower class variety/error. It's value is strictly tied to the lack of 22 Philadelphia pieces being struck. I personally never considered the non-D a part of my LC set.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@WaterSport said:
If 1924 was when the bank was "established" - then yes, I think you got a dud there.
WS
Welllllllllll, for reasons that will be explained in my book on 1922 cents, the Mints and the Federal Reserve Banks received back large quantities of circulated coins in 1921, and they were given orders to re-issue the used stuff before issuing any new coins. Other than small quantities obtained by writing directly to the Denver Mint and enclosing cash, the 1922-D cents were not released in quantity until 1924. Not sure when the 1924 cents were finally released, but the bottom line is that in 1924 an encased cent manufacturer may not have been able to obtain 1924-dated cents until very late in the year, and so they used whatever was available.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@HoledandCreative said: @CaptHenway, I am looking for a holed 1922 No D in case you see one in your searching. Tia.
Haven’t seen one, but will keep you in mind if I ever do.
Does it have to be a Die Pair #2, or would a legitimate No D Die Pair #1 or #3 work?
Don’t know your intended use. Have you considered just holing one of the MANY altered coins out there?
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@CaptHenway said:
In studying the cents of 1922 I have occasionally picked up an interesting encased 1922-D cent just because, but sometimes I have seen pieces where the condition of the coin does not match the condition of the holder. I have suspected that somebody attempted to get a good price for a cull 1922-D cent (of which there are many, because people saved them for the date) and forced it into a random encasement holder from which the original coin had been removed sometime back.
It appears to be the original coin for that encasement. The coin's rims are flattened a little bit from the encasement over-strike (as they should be). On the reverse side of the coin, small amounts of aluminum have moved over the top of the coin rim, in an irregular fashion (again, an indication of this being the original coin to the encasement). And the condition of the coin is not out of line with the encasement.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@CaptHenway said:
In studying the cents of 1922 I have occasionally picked up an interesting encased 1922-D cent just because, but sometimes I have seen pieces where the condition of the coin does not match the condition of the holder. I have suspected that somebody attempted to get a good price for a cull 1922-D cent (of which there are many, because people saved them for the date) and forced it into a random encasement holder from which the original coin had been removed sometime back.
To add a little value to your conversation, I bought it. Thought you guys would like to see closer photos.
When I went to look for it, the guy had pulled the listing. I contacted him and he relisted it. For 25 buck it's a nice conversation piece. There's obvious damage to the rim on both the Obv. and Rev. Plus, a number of hit but I think it looks much nicer they the seller original photos. Light reflection off the surface, looks like the coin might be bent.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Did you acetone the cent or anything? THat looks a million times better than the seller's pictures.
Still not sure that the coin is original to the holder. Look at the flattened out obverse rim at 3 o'clock and the corresponding damage to the reverse rim at 4 o'clock (they line up because the dies are rotated). There does not seem to be any corresponding damage on the adjacent aluminum.
Here's a thought. The coin was supposed to be struck into an earlier holder but the strike failed and the coin was damaged. Rather than waste it, the manufacturer just put it in a new holder and struck it into that.
Please send me copies of your full front and back pictures.
Thx
TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or in January on Amazon.
@CaptHenway said:
Did you acetone the cent or anything? That looks a million times better than the seller's pictures.
Still not sure that the coin is original to the holder. Look at the flattened out obverse rim at 3 o'clock and the corresponding damage to the reverse rim at 4 o'clock (they line up because the dies are rotated). There does not seem to be any corresponding damage on the adjacent aluminum.
Here's a thought. The coin was supposed to be struck into an earlier holder but the strike failed and the coin was damaged. Rather than waste it, the manufacturer just put it in a new holder and struck it into that.
Please send me copies of your full front and back pictures.
Thx
TD
Well, you got me. I knew I wouldn't get that past you. Yes, I gave it a nice acetone bath and then some VERDI-CARE. It really works great on old copper.
Your theory works for me.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I had some time during some disappointing college football games yesterday to dig around in my boxed library of "destined for nowhere" outdated catalogs, auctions & price lists. I finally found what I was looking for, "An Illustrated Guide To Wisconsin Encased Coins", First Edition by friend & Wisky dealer Jerry Binsfeld. Jerry was also the founder and editor of "The Casement", the official publication of the short lived Association Of Encased Collectors (ACE) which existed for a few years around the turn of the last century. The publications have some interesting and informative articles along with a lot of listings but I couldn't find any listing for the Menomonie encased in either the catalog and "The Casement". The encased is also not listed on tokencatalog.
Orders of encased cents normally used a merchant's date of choice (if available) for Openings, Anniversaries, Town Commems, etc., otherwise the manufacturer normally used current or near current date bu cents. In other words, if we find another example of the Menomonie encased also with a 1922D cent it would go a long way to verifying that the current piece has the original cent.
The author is a decent guy and would probably help you with verification in a one-off inquiry. I've stayed quiet on the question of originality of this coin to the holder as I have several questions as well about the setting, overlap and lack of pressure points. I would have to see it live before passing my particular form of cruel up or down thumb judgement. Apologies for a lot of words that add nothing definitive to the question.
Comments
Oh dear.....it appears to have gone away........
I regularly watch 1922 listings. Finishing up the manuscript for my book on 1922 cents.
Great! then its probably not necessary for me to double your tracks, seeing how the 22 is just an add on for me. Its for sure you've better got them covered than me.
Mark
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Our goal is to make the little kid in the orange coat famous someday
POOF Gone!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
1922 DIME FOR SALE!!!!!!! AND ADJECTIVES!!!!!! Read the description.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304529384597?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l1120&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=52848ad6d759458cabdb0beea8326d1d&bu=43112640167&ut=RU&osub=-1~1&crd=20220616065210&segname=11021#vi-desc-maincntr
If a '22, a fake. I have seen another one before when making a stop near Paxton, IL related to a visit on another matter.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Looks like a worn out 1928 to me, but I did not feel like getting into an argument with the man.
Anyone care to speculate as to what is up with this coin and the Seller's other coins? See the details below each one.
Hijacked account?
Fake slabs?
Martians?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225156762611?hash=item346c638bf3:g:~oQAAOSwpz9d-FKV
Hijacked account.
Hijacked account and likely stolen images. Hopefully get NARU’d soon, i am reporting a few of the listings.
wow. that takes some serious time to fake 8600+ listings, even using technology to streamline the process.
lots of weird things going on with that account.
man i bet the people at ebay got their hands full dealing with scammers.
Looks like ebay shut it down.
WOW!
Just Sweet Fanny Adams WOW!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284979133685?hash=item425a147cf5:g:e3AAAOSw-c9jL7yZ&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoBEQIkyIJ6iliP4FLT3X6LEy5OrzVYkmM2PjghCVvCD+jjJe3fK7fDANJMvthoMW1Yzn4Tz283g8nDb6NeuiiCRMEOLUGOu+1+cq3HN5wtn9D8O1kmzD6J9hCepvavlxw+hVvOAkAiScrtlIvtsYktIBpzHmgzRx31XBN9v0JuNUVbUdubyDXt3Sx2TNH2c2QubWueAtVL1AlwfNckQJswU=|tkp:Bk9SR9yM0NHuYA
Check out the obverse!!!
Thought we should save the photo.
I have a request.
What is the opinion about the following eight coins, as in - are they genuine and how many are actually considered as weak "D"?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
To be honest with you, in my opinion the term "Weak D" has been used so many different ways that it has become meaningless. In my book on the cents of 1922 I will be offering alternative terms for the coins between normal D's and No D's.
That said, I don't think that there is anything in this group that qualifies as a "Weak D" under CURRENT TPG standards.
TD
Amazing, ain't it!
Thank you. My curiousity was piqued about the "No D" and "weak D" designations because the following coin has been graded by our hosts as VF 25 "weak D".
kindly excuse the quality of the old pics from the archive that seem to have been taken with a potato.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
@CaptHenway, when is your book coming out? Looking forward to it!
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Can anyone explain to me what their fascination with 1922 is, regardless of the mint location, to them? I am sure there is a reason for some but I am curious of the interest beyond other early Lincolns.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
The Treasury had a glut of used coins in 1922 and had every intention of only striking Silver Dollars and Double Eagles as backing for Silver Certificates and Gold Certificates, respectively, plus a few commemorative issues. Nothing for circulation, though obviously some of the silver dollars and double eagles did circulate eventually.
Then in November of 1921 the U.S. finally signed a Peace Treaty with Germany and Austria, officially ending World War One as far as we were concerned. The Peace dollar was rushed into production, beginning on Dec. 28, 1921. It was intended to continue the design over into 1922 and beyond.
However, the design as rushed into production was in too high a relief, and the Mint could not strike them up properly. Therefore, striking of dollars was delayed for several weeks while the designs were lowered. Unable to strike gold, the Denver Mint struck cents in January and February of 1922 just to keep the workers busy. They did not have enough dies to use, so they kept using the ones they had well after they normally would have been retired. The quality suffered severely, and for a variety of reasons that will be explained in the book some coins left the Denver Mint without mint marks. Since Philadelphia did not strike cents in 1922, this caused considerable confusion and collector interest.
I am still working on it.
Can't believe this is still up on eBay
A thought popped up in my head. Could it be some sort of gambling or board game token?
Ed. S.
(EJS)
I highly doubt it.
Is this common practice? The seller illustrates three different coins, one of which has been scrunched in a lucky piece holder, and says in the description area "similar to the coins shown."
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204127849541?hash=item2f86f7cc45:g:c9oAAOSw5k1jUngZ&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAA4KSi3QPAopxQVJDC3oS+E/73HGAS+ZLkcYz0dJyDKhj68BJZqS7F7zxP7y8+RngWgtmEoo0AIwoiDWnCWS3JMDrlPzA6d7mjLAZ15FLmz7Ce9ALL5ckdbeBbax0oICBdcBRFzQJCqm0edcbRKdIrcMylffNlkUSeLtS3G9PYtYTqeEbQyi3un+UxQoo6KFWBM+TJ3J1Er029CAnxWNNVXQDhpIWZMvOvDYXMD0L/SYtvU0R0eSIAKeAgzkOnujcmdous76heVcKfO+n2r8tCiTCBwtq+raPF2JzB/7xc/hLB|tkp:Bk9SR_yL37L_YA
Guess which one you get!
New die-struck counterfeit 1922 cent. Reported. Please report.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/394321466809?hash=item5bcf6415b9:g:VnwAAOSwDpBjZbWq&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoJ+xLiBhD8apGiqgfygDqR+wh9IMH83ghO/3cMqD8JWT5RdnsKGjg3IqSbZMabwdzZous56heKdceQCfwXDdcPmFn8zxA6zXZK+dolX5Qg/fP8ydne26QCZ9S7waSQ0dYhD6w5ElRN/zQaCj/oKl7OQKlvtRYDndfCuJWqIyuGBJUCdCdyPDngfAheEEZ5cxP9VckujT5NGtzrM/XcrSa1I=|tkp:Bk9SR5CqoNOJYQ
Everyone should educate themselves on this stuff, because it's never going to end.
Just get worse.
Pete
"Brown?"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125865289814?hash=item1d4e27e856:g:oCkAAOSwiGNkLV7b&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAA4MZsXt+gQ+DisWESjq4xJ2/TcxT4/ToHQf5FuaKIiY86Iv29xkKhtOJ53mcGvHSlHXIulMYAzYnxb/+Pm1BlnzONhY+/I8Ku7aP7fwkGPHWDYSjiVaP8M/AMh2JCkIkUgI3DiiVVO0HNERrPO/Yia0g8C4OcSEpWF7q+n4nka8yYRHaWkpd2YHAQYskvO7i4eTBQgHrTemg3h2oitp1+pqUA6Hpvwk71maj6rb/U7pBrLL1Qq+reqNhBqSioH3MCyZpwuaw6S/tfcctsISlU94n3Tm00KNsdqhdUDbDh6XP1|tkp:Bk9SR6i5_5zqYQ
In studying the cents of 1922 I have occasionally picked up an interesting encased 1922-D cent just because, but sometimes I have seen pieces where the condition of the coin does not match the condition of the holder. I have suspected that somebody attempted to get a good price for a cull 1922-D cent (of which there are many, because people saved them for the date) and forced it into a random encasement holder from which the original coin had been removed sometime back.
Take a look at this piece:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276039056326?hash=item404535bbc6:g:9xsAAOSwjJVk80kt&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAAwIxCPOGr9YZB0tHKje2xIZhgNEZ6Q+pdCZCrk/qOlhbJnWJSkeK69CA0VbcVvwuO/9ipdai1TkG3Ab+rkN94+jCetRS3jt4TVmvd2n6qFb0dddhsJj6GM/L+42kaupUeyJsFAh7tW9qKOCJwUdjy7UhCWxLHPDicjmtxKdAdojRoUp9WaC5rMGQrAKmDAvJW1X5z2dUC7X37yZPo4GV2OUPm2vGtxNXbeu7oLaOn6d4kjG6qJqpXHv1IOSGW8Z0wEQ==|tkp:Bk9SR9jP8_bPYg
What do you think?
1922 is my favorite date LC. I actually found a 1922-D in circulation back in the day (early '60's). Someone should write a book about 1922 Lincoln cents, the lowest mintage year of all Lincoln cents.
"A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new."
---Albert Einstein (b. 14Mar1879--d. 18Apr1955)
I have written a book about the cents of 1922, but am having trouble convincing my publisher of choice that there is a market for it.
The market for it possibly as a gift or novelty item, shelve fillers for the academites. With the right cover it could sell millions.
Maybe self-publishing would work out. I'm good for purchasing a copy.
"A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new."
---Albert Einstein (b. 14Mar1879--d. 18Apr1955)
Tough to tell from those pictures, but I do not think the condition of the coin is out of line with the condition of the holder. Nor do I see any evidence of another coin being removed, the interface between the coin and the holder seems undisturbed.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
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Do most collectors still view the 22 as an variety or error? Would it still hold its interest if Philadelphia cents were struck that year? I assume it's value would be greatly reduced and it would fall into a lower class variety/error. It's value is strictly tied to the lack of 22 Philadelphia pieces being struck. I personally never considered the non-D a part of my LC set.
If 1924 was when the bank was "established" - then yes, I think you got a dud there.
WS
Welllllllllll, for reasons that will be explained in my book on 1922 cents, the Mints and the Federal Reserve Banks received back large quantities of circulated coins in 1921, and they were given orders to re-issue the used stuff before issuing any new coins. Other than small quantities obtained by writing directly to the Denver Mint and enclosing cash, the 1922-D cents were not released in quantity until 1924. Not sure when the 1924 cents were finally released, but the bottom line is that in 1924 an encased cent manufacturer may not have been able to obtain 1924-dated cents until very late in the year, and so they used whatever was available.
Who Knew! - But you! Thats a bit of new history for sure. Can't wait for the book.
WS
@CaptHenway, I am looking for a holed 1922 No D in case you see one in your searching. Tia.
Haven’t seen one, but will keep you in mind if I ever do.
Does it have to be a Die Pair #2, or would a legitimate No D Die Pair #1 or #3 work?
Don’t know your intended use. Have you considered just holing one of the MANY altered coins out there?
It appears to be the original coin for that encasement. The coin's rims are flattened a little bit from the encasement over-strike (as they should be). On the reverse side of the coin, small amounts of aluminum have moved over the top of the coin rim, in an irregular fashion (again, an indication of this being the original coin to the encasement). And the condition of the coin is not out of line with the encasement.
I appreciate all of the comments. Thanks.
I want the No D, strong reverse. There should be one out there somewhere. I collect holed U.S. coins by date and mint mark, all metals.
To add a little value to your conversation, I bought it. Thought you guys would like to see closer photos.
When I went to look for it, the guy had pulled the listing. I contacted him and he relisted it. For 25 buck it's a nice conversation piece. There's obvious damage to the rim on both the Obv. and Rev. Plus, a number of hit but I think it looks much nicer they the seller original photos. Light reflection off the surface, looks like the coin might be bent.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Did you acetone the cent or anything? THat looks a million times better than the seller's pictures.
Still not sure that the coin is original to the holder. Look at the flattened out obverse rim at 3 o'clock and the corresponding damage to the reverse rim at 4 o'clock (they line up because the dies are rotated). There does not seem to be any corresponding damage on the adjacent aluminum.
Here's a thought. The coin was supposed to be struck into an earlier holder but the strike failed and the coin was damaged. Rather than waste it, the manufacturer just put it in a new holder and struck it into that.
Please send me copies of your full front and back pictures.
Thx
TD
Well, you got me. I knew I wouldn't get that past you. Yes, I gave it a nice acetone bath and then some VERDI-CARE. It really works great on old copper.
Your theory works for me.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
El Capitan:
I had some time during some disappointing college football games yesterday to dig around in my boxed library of "destined for nowhere" outdated catalogs, auctions & price lists. I finally found what I was looking for, "An Illustrated Guide To Wisconsin Encased Coins", First Edition by friend & Wisky dealer Jerry Binsfeld. Jerry was also the founder and editor of "The Casement", the official publication of the short lived Association Of Encased Collectors (ACE) which existed for a few years around the turn of the last century. The publications have some interesting and informative articles along with a lot of listings but I couldn't find any listing for the Menomonie encased in either the catalog and "The Casement". The encased is also not listed on tokencatalog.
Orders of encased cents normally used a merchant's date of choice (if available) for Openings, Anniversaries, Town Commems, etc., otherwise the manufacturer normally used current or near current date bu cents. In other words, if we find another example of the Menomonie encased also with a 1922D cent it would go a long way to verifying that the current piece has the original cent.
There is one last possibly productive avenue of inquiry to verify the date of the Menomonie encased. There is a more recent catalog titled "The Encased Cents Of Wisconsin" by Milwaukee dealer James Skwarek that has a much deeper coverage of WIsconsin encased -- I do not own a copy due to probable high cost per usage but it is available here: https://ebay.com/itm/142805125734?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1xQtC9Z_1TeO8XWiD7Hh6AA52&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=142805125734&targetid=1587268787897&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9019526&poi=21182&campaignid=19894961968&mkgroupid=148855406073&rlsatarget=pla-1587268787897&abcId=9307911&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQjwx5qoBhDyARIsAPbMagAaUfZAUedDwA-quq3q33WBw9bUQQJ2rQJzLD6ZwKOT_awz04SXzkEaAtfLEALw_wcB
The author is a decent guy and would probably help you with verification in a one-off inquiry. I've stayed quiet on the question of originality of this coin to the holder as I have several questions as well about the setting, overlap and lack of pressure points. I would have to see it live before passing my particular form of cruel up or down thumb judgement. Apologies for a lot of words that add nothing definitive to the question.