Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Pretty decent strike. Just environmentally damaged.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
That is different. Look at the planchet texture. Is that sign of a poured or cast planchet? It does not look rolled and stamped from a strip. Otherwise that is a great strike for a 22 no D.
That and the 1955 doubled die are very common Chinese fakes, I think they also make an off center 1909-S VDB. It's honestly hard to believe anyone is still fooled by them.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
it's got a smooth rim then a textured un-struck interior
They probably made two fake dies with the images offset and then struck them this way in a regular press and collar. That way they would not have to hand feed planchets into the press off-center.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I have noticed that 1922-D cents are highly prone to coming in 2x2's that are covered with hyperbolic scrawl. I may buy this one just for the holder (both sides).
Are people like this deliberately trying to make us think that they are rubes whom we can outsmart? It boggles the mind!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
That and the 1955 doubled die are very common Chinese fakes, I think they also make an off center 1909-S VDB. It's honestly hard to believe anyone is still fooled by them.
Sean Reynolds
No, it isn't. There are new coin collectors every day. This translates to the old phrase "there are suckers born every day" to the sellers of such items.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I think I may have mentioned it to you previously, I distinctly remember Alan Levy offering this coin raw on eBay maybe 20 years ago. Very cool seeing it again and having my memory of it validated. I only wish I had the funds to bid for it, I expect it to go for "moon money".
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Check out his verbiage down below. We are humbled by his mastery of the English language!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Or, why coins should not be left in PVC auction flips for a quarter of a century.
THe seller has a couple other Eliasberg coins in similar flips.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I have seen one 1922-D in an encasement that was typical of the late 1940's or the 1950's. On that one the grade of the encasement was not even close to the grade of the coin.
Anybody else ever see encased coins where you think that the coin was shoved into a previously-used encasement?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
I would appreciate opinions as to whether or not there is ANY chance that this coin was encased in this holder in 1922 or shortly thereafter:
I have seen one 1922-D in an encasement that was typical of the late 1940's or the 1950's. On that one the grade of the encasement was not even close to the grade of the coin.
Anybody else ever see encased coins where you think that the coin was shoved into a previously-used encasement?
Irregularities on the periphery of the encasement kind of bother me. I think there is a better than even chance the '22-D was pressed in to a previously-used encasement.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@CaptHenway said:
I would appreciate opinions as to whether or not there is ANY chance that this coin was encased in this holder in 1922 or shortly thereafter:
I have seen one 1922-D in an encasement that was typical of the late 1940's or the 1950's. On that one the grade of the encasement was not even close to the grade of the coin.
Anybody else ever see encased coins where you think that the coin was shoved into a previously-used encasement?
The obverse of that encasement dates back to at least 1904, based on this auction:
The reverse on that auction is related to the St Louis Fair. There is another auction for the same revse encasement as the 1922-D, but with an AU 1920 cent listed here:
Without doing a lot of additional searching, I think it is reasonable to assume the 1922-D was encased in the early 1920s.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
@CaptHenway said:
I would appreciate opinions as to whether or not there is ANY chance that this coin was encased in this holder in 1922 or shortly thereafter:
I have seen one 1922-D in an encasement that was typical of the late 1940's or the 1950's. On that one the grade of the encasement was not even close to the grade of the coin.
Anybody else ever see encased coins where you think that the coin was shoved into a previously-used encasement?
Tom, I don't like that encased - it does definitely look like a replaced cent to me. That style of chamber pot frame/holder is most often seen with Indian 1c encased but there are a number of Lincolns encased in those as well. That said, 1922 is one of the latest date cents that I've seen in the classic chamber pot.
To answer your other question, yes, I have handled many encased with replaced cents, especially Indians where the lustrous uncs were often popped. A difference in the grade of the holder vs the coin is one of the first giveaways as is the wrong type (Abe vs. IH) in the wrong type holder. Tooling around the cents is always suspicious and the light gap between the cent & holder when held up to a lamp is one of the best methods (kind of like staring at an eclipse or into the sun but as Bruce says, that's where the fun is).
There was one noted exonumist from the Western region (long since passed) that made a cottage industry of jamming older Lincolns and Indians into empty frames with some skill. He did it so often that most people were extremely leery of him whenever he finally had a scarce legit encased for sale.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Next thing you know, there becomes the MnMs service along with funky Super Bowl commercials. At least the coins don't melt in your hands but the holders do taste chocolaty.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I don't know whether to report it or spray it with Lysol!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Looks like some design elements of the case appear on the 1922-D coin's rim at about 3 to 5 o'clock which would indicate it being original.
The marks are similar to the left-side rim of the 1920 linked above by seanq, but less extensive.
You are correct, Sir! Based on your excellent observation I bought the piece. Will try to post a picture below.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
I think this is a removed mint mark, but I am not sure that the entire coin isn't counterfeit. It is not any genuine variety. WHat do you think?
We know why the mintmark on 1922 Lincolns vanished. There are some lightly struck examples on well struck coins.
This is a common malady of Lincolns in that time period. Seems like 1921-1925 coins are seen with it.
The coin here is not one of those coins, and It is struck better than a majority of its stablemates to boot.
So, someone must have removed the mintmark (IMHOP). They did a real good job of hiding their work, too.
Strange coin indeed.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
Yes, the obverse does not look right for an actual '22 no D. There looks like removed material underneath the date per the picture. I concur with @BuffaloIronTail .
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
When posting things you find on eBay, I would suggest copy/pasting the photo to the post, rather than just adding a link. There is (or was) a ton a good visual information on '22 counterfeits here that is lost because the links are no longer good. I think I read that you're working on writing something up for the '22 cents, but this post alone would have been a great resource—only to have become a wealth of broken links.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS). Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Also, I've been told by a good number of members that its best to start a new thread for new coins in new listings.
I ended up starting a thread for the same off center 22 No D.
"CaptHenway" do you find this coin doing regular searches for newly listed 22 no d's or did you just by chance run across it?
Mark
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Comments
Harshly Cleaned
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
A new DDO 1922-D cent!!!! Not.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-D-Doubled-Die-Obverse-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-Bronze-Penny-ERROR-1922-D-DDO-001/224274678883?hash=item3437d00463:g:JaEAAOSwhL1f05-h
Love the KM number!
buy it for the toning then...
Pretty decent strike. Just environmentally damaged.
An interesting "pedigree," but I doubt it can ever be proven.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-No-D-Lincoln-Wheat-1-Cent-Previously-Owned-By-Buddy-Ebson/143907663196?hash=item218190ad5c:g:gyoAAOSwS4df8luw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Ebsen
Pig in a poke. Pay the price and get one of the coins in this picture.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254829634825?ul_noapp=true
Anybody feel lucky?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373456568715?ul_noapp=true
Or how about this one?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-Lincoln-cent-no-D-not-authenticated/284180975411
Edited to add: Check out his 1911-S:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-S-Lincoln-Cent-G/284180966218?hash=item422a816b4a:g:fQwAAOSwm2JgJXDw
Report time:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-No-D-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-off-strike/294018549920?hash=item4474df08a0:g:FikAAOSwzQxgLIrm
He has a fake 1955 double die as well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-55-DOUBLED-DIE-OBVERSE-Lincoln-Cent-Wheat-Penny/294019363974?hash=item4474eb7486:g:FQIAAOSwlq1gLUNN
That is different. Look at the planchet texture. Is that sign of a poured or cast planchet? It does not look rolled and stamped from a strip. Otherwise that is a great strike for a 22 no D.
That and the 1955 doubled die are very common Chinese fakes, I think they also make an off center 1909-S VDB. It's honestly hard to believe anyone is still fooled by them.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
What Sean said.
That 22-D is too well struck to be genuine anyway.
Pete
it's got a smooth rim then a textured un-struck interior
a pompadour hairstyle
so 1950s
They probably made two fake dies with the images offset and then struck them this way in a regular press and collar. That way they would not have to hand feed planchets into the press off-center.
I have noticed that 1922-D cents are highly prone to coming in 2x2's that are covered with hyperbolic scrawl. I may buy this one just for the holder (both sides).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-DENVER-USA-MINT-LUSTROUS-A-HIGH-END-FILLER-WEAK-DATE-LINCOLN-COPPER-CENT/363337393354
Are people like this deliberately trying to make us think that they are rubes whom we can outsmart? It boggles the mind!
No, it isn't. There are new coin collectors every day. This translates to the old phrase "there are suckers born every day" to the sellers of such items.
The dangers of using plus signs in grading. See just the second line of the heading:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294175128966?hash=item447e343d86:g:P7gAAOSwOopgnW~9
Worst die-struck counterfeit 1922 cent I have seen in a long time!
With 21 bids!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313687192972?hash=item490936b58c:g:pIkAAOSw1VBhToll
Please report also.
Reporting must have worked. Page is missing. Good work ebay!
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
reported
Hey @CaptHenway I want to make sure you see this coin.
1922-D broadstruck on a straight clip, in a new ANACS holder
I think I may have mentioned it to you previously, I distinctly remember Alan Levy offering this coin raw on eBay maybe 20 years ago. Very cool seeing it again and having my memory of it validated. I only wish I had the funds to bid for it, I expect it to go for "moon money".
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Thanks. I may chase it a little ways just to see what happens.
Did you see this amazing error of the reverse of a 1922 cent? What? The seller didn't show the reverse you say???
https://www.ebay.com/itm/352971970101?hash=item522ec4d635:g:l1sAAOSwLnBX40Gq
Check out his verbiage down below. We are humbled by his mastery of the English language!
The Eliasberg 1922-D cent:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144380968055?hash=item219dc6bc77:g:C2UAAOSwIchh634q
Or, why coins should not be left in PVC auction flips for a quarter of a century.
THe seller has a couple other Eliasberg coins in similar flips.
I don't see corrosion. Are you thinking the mottled brown color all came from the flip?
I would appreciate opinions as to whether or not there is ANY chance that this coin was encased in this holder in 1922 or shortly thereafter:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115250451033
I have seen one 1922-D in an encasement that was typical of the late 1940's or the 1950's. On that one the grade of the encasement was not even close to the grade of the coin.
Anybody else ever see encased coins where you think that the coin was shoved into a previously-used encasement?
Irregularities on the periphery of the encasement kind of bother me. I think there is a better than even chance the '22-D was pressed in to a previously-used encasement.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
The obverse of that encasement dates back to at least 1904, based on this auction:
eBay link
The reverse on that auction is related to the St Louis Fair. There is another auction for the same revse encasement as the 1922-D, but with an AU 1920 cent listed here:
eBay link
Without doing a lot of additional searching, I think it is reasonable to assume the 1922-D was encased in the early 1920s.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Tom, I don't like that encased - it does definitely look like a replaced cent to me. That style of chamber pot frame/holder is most often seen with Indian 1c encased but there are a number of Lincolns encased in those as well. That said, 1922 is one of the latest date cents that I've seen in the classic chamber pot.
To answer your other question, yes, I have handled many encased with replaced cents, especially Indians where the lustrous uncs were often popped. A difference in the grade of the holder vs the coin is one of the first giveaways as is the wrong type (Abe vs. IH) in the wrong type holder. Tooling around the cents is always suspicious and the light gap between the cent & holder when held up to a lamp is one of the best methods (kind of like staring at an eclipse or into the sun but as Bruce says, that's where the fun is).
There was one noted exonumist from the Western region (long since passed) that made a cottage industry of jamming older Lincolns and Indians into empty frames with some skill. He did it so often that most people were extremely leery of him whenever he finally had a scarce legit encased for sale.
Thanks
Looks like some design elements of the case appear on the 1922-D coin's rim at about 3 to 5 o'clock which would indicate it being original.
The marks are similar to the left-side rim of the 1920 linked above by seanq, but less extensive.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Anybody ever hear of Masters Numismatic Service?
And it's self-stickered!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125161678008?hash=item1d2437a4b8:g:tw8AAOSwDeRiE~Ko
Never heard of them. https://numismaticnews.net/archive/masters-numismatic-services-moves-to-florida
Explains why the slab is embossed with MMNS instead of MNS.
Next thing you know, there becomes the MnMs service along with funky Super Bowl commercials. At least the coins don't melt in your hands but the holders do taste chocolaty.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Recent crossover from ANACS... my TV came in:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
That's a nice one, Sedulous.
It is strikewise superior.
Pete
The worst graded coin on fleabay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334346098130?hash=item4dd89495d2:g:2ZEAAOSwqDlh7hN-
I don't know whether to report it or spray it with Lysol!
You are correct, Sir! Based on your excellent observation I bought the piece. Will try to post a picture below.
TD
I think this is a removed mint mark, but I am not sure that the entire coin isn't counterfeit. It is not any genuine variety. WHat do you think?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275274400040?hash=item4017a20128:g:7ywAAOSwx-tiXCz1
We know why the mintmark on 1922 Lincolns vanished. There are some lightly struck examples on well struck coins.
This is a common malady of Lincolns in that time period. Seems like 1921-1925 coins are seen with it.
The coin here is not one of those coins, and It is struck better than a majority of its stablemates to boot.
So, someone must have removed the mintmark (IMHOP). They did a real good job of hiding their work, too.
Strange coin indeed.
Pete
Yes, the obverse does not look right for an actual '22 no D. There looks like removed material underneath the date per the picture. I concur with @BuffaloIronTail .
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
When posting things you find on eBay, I would suggest copy/pasting the photo to the post, rather than just adding a link. There is (or was) a ton a good visual information on '22 counterfeits here that is lost because the links are no longer good. I think I read that you're working on writing something up for the '22 cents, but this post alone would have been a great resource—only to have become a wealth of broken links.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
Another counterfeit off-center 1922 cent. Please report.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/403711174344?hash=item5dff0fa6c8:g:jg8AAOSws3ZipCIh
Up over $1000. Please report.
Beautiful...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=403711174344&_ssn=drta_25&_sop=10
Also, I've been told by a good number of members that its best to start a new thread for new coins in new listings.
I ended up starting a thread for the same off center 22 No D.
"CaptHenway" do you find this coin doing regular searches for newly listed 22 no d's or did you just by chance run across it?
Mark
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!