Need gold coin dealer advise please

Tootawl · March 25, 2022 12:21PM

NEW PHOTOS {PSTED BELOW

A friend wants to get an estimate of how much her 4 gold coins are worth and possibly sell them in Baltimore. These are:

1926 $10 Indian Gold marked as BU
1913 $2.5 Indian Gold marked as BU
1929 $2.5 Indian Gold marked as BU
1903 $2.5 Liberty Gold marked as UNC
The coins are raw. The grades and descriptions listed are what is hand written in the 2x2 plastic holder.
What dealer in Baltimore should I send my friend to? I have photos of you want to look at

PerryHall · March 25, 2022 12:30PM

We need detailed high-resolution pics to provide any meaningful help. Also, BU could mean Brillian Uncirculated or Buffed Up, Been Used, Beat Up, Butt Ugly, etc.

MsMorrisine · March 25, 2022 1:27PM

photos

PerryHall · March 25, 2022 1:38PM

All of the coins listed have been heavily counterfeited so authentication is required as a first step before you grade these coins.

djm · March 25, 2022 1:42PM

@Tootawl said:
A friend wants to get an estimate of how much her 4 gold coins are worth and possibly sell them in Baltimore. These are:

1926 $10 Indian Gold marked as BU

1913 $2.5 Indian Gold marked as BU

1929 $2.5 Indian Gold marked as BU

1903 $2.5 Liberty Gold marked as UNC
The coins are raw. The grades and descriptions listed are what is hand written in the 2x2 plastic holder.
What dealer in Baltimore should I send my friend to? I have photos of you want to look at them.

Tell your friend to bring them to the Whitman Baltimore Spring Expo March 31 - April 2. There will be plenty of dealers there who can appraise his coins and make and offer to buy them. Doug Winter is the best in the business if he is attending the show.

Tootawl · March 25, 2022 4:05PM

Tootawl · March 25, 2022 4:06PM

I'm not looking for values/prices here but looking for dealers who will be at Baltimore. My friend and I will be there next week.

streeter · March 25, 2022 4:23PM

I remember way back when, going to Long Beach with stuff like this. Allegedly well respected dealers low balled me like it was fun for them. I took notes, never to return. I wasn't interested in their nonsense then or now.

That 03 lib is iffy at $1,100. It would have to be a sharp coin. The 10 indians are hot. The 2.5 Indians need plastic, sooner or later.

MsMorrisine · March 25, 2022 4:27PM

You have duplicate pics up

Need the other sides

WillieBoyd2 · March 25, 2022 4:31PM

Please let us know how your trip to the Baltimore show works out.

MsMorrisine · March 25, 2022 4:36PM

you need you need to get prices so you know if you are getting lowballed

WAYNEAS · March 25, 2022 4:38PM

Please show close up pictures of both sides of the coins. Hopefully out of the plastic flips.
Wayne

Tootawl · March 25, 2022 4:51PM

I do not have these coins. I'm just looking for names of dealers that we can see in Baltimore. Here are the photos.... hopefully without the duplicates. Something tells me that my friend will get better money if they get graded.

Tootawl · March 25, 2022 4:55PM

The story I was told was these were bought a long time ago as an investment. They want to sell them now.

jkrk · March 25, 2022 7:53PM

@Tootawl said:
The story I was told was these were bought a long time ago as an investment. They want to sell them now.

I can't advise since I don't know one dealer from another.

I did see this re... the Baltimore show.

https://expo.whitman.com/dealer-list/

I'm sure that you recognize some of the names on the list.

jmlanzaf · March 25, 2022 8:52PM

@Tootawl said:
I do not have these coins. I'm just looking for names of dealers that we can see in Baltimore. Here are the photos.... hopefully without the duplicates. Something tells me that my friend will get better money if they get graded.

You always get better value in slabs, but not always enough to justify the cost of the slab. It would also take months to get them into slabs, so there is that.

derryb · March 26, 2022 12:55AM

If authentic, based on pics, coins should grade high.

ricko · March 26, 2022 4:30AM

The coins appear to be relatively high grade. However, viewing through 2x2's can be deceptive. Good luck at the show and let us know how it works out. Cheers, RickO

pcgscacgold · March 26, 2022 4:57AM

I am a bit surprised nobody has mentioned the two deep hits to the reverse of the 1929 near the eagles head. That holds this one back for me.

jonruns · March 26, 2022 5:02AM

Doug Winter will be at Baltimore:

"Remember, if we are away from the table, do not hesitate to call me at 214.675.9897. I'm happy to take your call and come right back to table 656 to give you a hand or make you an offer."

Pedzola · March 26, 2022 5:42AM

100% get them graded before selling.

Slabbed and stickered a 1913 $2.5 in 65 could sell for ~9k+ retail. But these are tough to grade. Even if a dealer thinks its a lock 65 they would prob offer no-cac 64 $$ at best due to the uncertainty of grading. ~$1200?

Not saying your coin is a 65 but they look nice from the pics. If there is a chance of a high grade on any of the indians its worth trying to capture that value yourself. And remember once they're graded, for the indians the value basically doubles if you also get a cac sticker. The lib not so much.

stawick · March 26, 2022 6:59AM

The luster on your BU $2.50 Indian has me jonesin (again) to do a restoration for my MS63 1912 $5.

DollarAfterDollar · March 26, 2022 7:12AM

I agree with Pedzola above. They look nice enough to safely get graded and not lose value in the process assuming they are authentic (which they appear to be). Once encapsulated their actual value is a known figure. In the absence of encapsulation no fair offers will be forthcoming.
That's just the way the game is played. Not my rules.

MedalCollector · March 26, 2022 7:21AM

Those look like nice coins.

Are the flips soft and “greasy”? They look old enough and sort of have the look of PVC-containing flips. If you move the coins around in the flip and there is an outline of where the coin used to be, that would be another indicator. If so, you may want to consider a rinse before submission.

PerryHall · March 26, 2022 7:30AM

@GoldenEgg said:
Those look like nice coins.

Are the flips soft and “greasy”? They look old enough and sort of have the look of PVC-containing flips. If you move the coins around in the flip and there is an outline of where the coin used to be, that would be another indicator. If so, you may want to consider a rinse before submission.

Agree with this. Acetone should be used.

DisneyFan · March 26, 2022 7:21PM

I agree about possible PVC damage. Would you trust a dealer to submit them to PCGS on your behalf and then make an offer after they were slabbed? I believe that was/is Richard Nachbar's business model. Or Great Collections Auctions.

jmlanzaf · March 26, 2022 7:27PM

@DisneyFan said:
I agree about possible PVC damage. Would you trust a dealer to submit them to PCGS on your behalf and then make an offer after they were slabbed? I believe that was/is Richard Nachbar's business model. Or Great Collections Auctions.

Richard Nachbar is deceased.

DisneyFan · March 26, 2022 7:31PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@DisneyFan said:
I agree about possible PVC damage. Would you trust a dealer to submit them to PCGS on your behalf and then make an offer after they were slabbed? I believe that was/is Richard Nachbar's business model. Or Great Collections Auctions.

Richard Nachbar is deceased.

I know. That was his business model. The business continues on.

alaura22 · March 26, 2022 8:02PM

This is what I would do.
Call GC and ask to speak with Ian, ask him what HIS turnaround is for PCGS grading and CAC.
Based on what hw says I would send then to him, have him get them graded and if he thinks they deserve a CAC.

A little time here can net you $$$ in the end
Good Luck

MFeld · March 27, 2022 3:34AM

@alaura22 said:
This is what I would do.
Call GC and ask to speak with Ian, ask him what HIS turnaround is for PCGS grading and CAC.
Based on what hw says I would send then to him, have him get them graded and if he thinks they deserve a CAC.

A little time here can net you $$$ in the end
Good Luck

That might be a waste of money, as it’s not a given that the coins even merit the cost of grading. There should be multiple well qualified dealers at the show who can make that determination.

Namvet69 · March 27, 2022 3:45AM

When you go to the show, take your time, take notes, it's good to get several opinions, reputable dealers will have similar coins to view. Good luck. Peace Roy

MFeld · March 27, 2022 3:56AM

@Namvet69 said:
When you go to the show, take your time, take notes, it's good to get several opinions, reputable dealers will have similar coins to view. Good luck. Peace Roy

??
Plenty of reputable dealers won’t necessarily have similar coins to view.

jmlanzaf · March 27, 2022 4:17AM

@MFeld said:

@alaura22 said:
This is what I would do.
Call GC and ask to speak with Ian, ask him what HIS turnaround is for PCGS grading and CAC.
Based on what hw says I would send then to him, have him get them graded and if he thinks they deserve a CAC.

A little time here can net you $$$ in the end
Good Luck

That might be a waste of money, as it’s not a given that the coins even merit the cost of grading. There should be multiple well qualified dealers at the show who can make that determination.

You mean slabbing a coin and sending it to auction doesn't automatically increase your sale price?

I really wonder how many thousands of dollars are wasted every year in submitting coins that do not increase in value commensurate with the cost. Especially given the thin margins on gold, most of it isn't worth slabbing. And, if slabbed, most of it isn't worth auctioning either.

pcgscacgold · March 27, 2022 4:34AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@MFeld said:

@alaura22 said:
This is what I would do.
Call GC and ask to speak with Ian, ask him what HIS turnaround is for PCGS grading and CAC.
Based on what hw says I would send then to him, have him get them graded and if he thinks they deserve a CAC.

A little time here can net you $$$ in the end
Good Luck

That might be a waste of money, as it’s not a given that the coins even merit the cost of grading. There should be multiple well qualified dealers at the show who can make that determination.

You mean slabbing a coin and sending it to auction doesn't automatically increase your sale price?

I really wonder how many thousands of dollars are wasted every year in submitting coins that do not increase in value commensurate with the cost. Especially given the thin margins on gold, most of it isn't worth slabbing. And, if slabbed, most of it isn't worth auctioning either.

A few months before COVID started in the US I was regularly seeing GC auctions for MS62 Liberty Half Eagles and Eagles at about spot + 5% including the buyers premium. Some weeks it would take a little more (or maybe one had a CAC sticker and would take 10%). I always wondered why the seller didn't just take the coins to a local dealer. If they were paying a sellers fee their take home amount would have been well below melt.

I wish the people luck at the show. My experience has been that dealers are not really looking to give estimates on things unless the seller is serious about selling.

MFeld · March 27, 2022 4:42AM

@pcgscacgold said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@MFeld said:

@alaura22 said:
This is what I would do.
Call GC and ask to speak with Ian, ask him what HIS turnaround is for PCGS grading and CAC.
Based on what hw says I would send then to him, have him get them graded and if he thinks they deserve a CAC.

A little time here can net you $$$ in the end
Good Luck

That might be a waste of money, as it’s not a given that the coins even merit the cost of grading. There should be multiple well qualified dealers at the show who can make that determination.

You mean slabbing a coin and sending it to auction doesn't automatically increase your sale price?

I really wonder how many thousands of dollars are wasted every year in submitting coins that do not increase in value commensurate with the cost. Especially given the thin margins on gold, most of it isn't worth slabbing. And, if slabbed, most of it isn't worth auctioning either.

A few months before COVID started in the US I was regularly seeing GC auctions for MS62 Liberty Half Eagles and Eagles at about spot + 5% including the buyers premium. Some weeks it would take a little more (or maybe one had a CAC sticker and would take 10%). I always wondered why the seller didn't just take the coins to a local dealer. If they were paying a sellers fee their take home amount would have been well below melt.

I wish the people luck at the show. My experience has been that dealers are not really looking to give estimates on things unless the seller is serious about selling.

Fairly often, I tell potential consignors that their generic gold coins aren’t well suited for auction. Some of them heed my advice, but others still choose auction or have to sell that way, due to joint ownership or other reasons.

DollarAfterDollar · March 27, 2022 6:29AM

Gold is ALWAYS popular at auction. It just depends on the auction. A sale at 25% commission is a losing proposition. Negotiate with a coin auctioneer to sell gold at 10% and you'll get very close to full value if not exceed it.
You gotta shop around.

BillJones · March 27, 2022 8:01AM

Get the coins graded BEFORE you sell them.

Here's how it worked for me when I was a dealer. First, I had to grade the coins. Then I looked at the wholesale prices. Then I had to deduct for what it would cost me to get the coins graded including the grading fees and the postage to send them to and from the grader. THEN I deducted some more to cover my risk in case the coins didn't come back in the grades that I expected. After that I arrived at a price I was willing to pay.

There is usually a huge price difference between the MS-64 value and anything higher. A dealer can't pay 100% for a grade that has not been established, Once the coin has been sent to the third party grader and a grade is established, you can negotiate from there.

jmlanzaf · March 27, 2022 8:11AM

@DollarAfterDollar said:
Gold is ALWAYS popular at auction. It just depends on the auction. A sale at 25% commission is a losing proposition. Negotiate with a coin auctioneer to sell gold at 10% and you'll get very close to full value if not exceed it.
You gotta shop around.

Except that gold wholesale/retail spread is less than even the 10% commission.

I've bought gold at auction, including GC and Heritage, that I've flipped at WHOLESALE and made money.

foodude · March 27, 2022 9:20AM

Cliff, I sent you a DM yesterday on this.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 27, 2022 1:30PM

About $2k for all 4.

Tootawl · April 2, 2022 3:21PM

Thanks to everyone who provided advise. My friend sold the coins raw to John Gould (spelling??).

BIG TIME thanks to Greg (Foodude) who spent alot of time talking to my friends about their coins, what to look out for, PVC flips and damn near everything you want to know about gold coins. THANKS!

roadrunner · April 2, 2022 9:11PM

Would be a better ending to the story if we knew what the group sold for. That would be a worthwhile story for other members to know if they run up against something similar.

Knowing how raw "BU" coins in flips really graded years ago (or even 10 yrs ago), I'd have expected most of them to be AU/slider/MS61 coins. I'd be shocked if any of them were MS63 or better. And the spreads on those coins in circ to low end MS is usually not all that wide......not like it was back in 2008-2011.

Spot on the group was approx $2350. I'd expect market value around $2600-$2800.

Need gold coin dealer advise please

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