2.5 dollar coins: 1908, 1861

Karocia · March 10, 2022 6:55AM

Hello everyone,

I would like to ask about 2.5 dollar coin, it is original?

Thank you

PerryHall · March 10, 2022 7:02AM

Looks real struck from clashed dies.

ricko · March 10, 2022 7:53AM

@Karocia .... Welcome aboard. Looks authentic.... Great pictures. Cheers, RickO

BillJones · March 10, 2022 10:49AM

The close-up aspect of the photos is great, but the color isn’t, unless the coin really is that color.

The piece looks genuine to me, but it has so much wear that it does not have much collector or numismatic value left. The multiple fine lines tell me that the coin has been cleaned or rubbed. The value is tied to melt, which has been up and down like a yo-yo.

The sharpness grade is Very Fine. These coins grade differently because the fields are the highest part of the design.

jwitten · March 10, 2022 11:20AM

@BillJones said:
The close-up aspect of the photos is great, but the color isn’t, unless the coin really is that color.

The piece looks genuine to me, but it has so much wear that it does not have much collector or numismatic value left. The multiple fine lines tell me that the coin has been cleaned or rubbed. The value is tied to melt, which has been up and down like a yo-yo.

The sharpness grade is Very Fine. These coins grade differently because the fields are the highest part of the design.

This coin is worth a lot more than melt, and appears to be more like AU to me. The color is because of his lighting/pictures technique, and I would guess it would straight grade too. The extreme closeups and harsh lighting gives it a cleaned look in a few pictures, but it looks ok in the first two pics.

PerryHall · March 10, 2022 11:38AM

@jwitten said:

@BillJones said:
The close-up aspect of the photos is great, but the color isn’t, unless the coin really is that color.

The piece looks genuine to me, but it has so much wear that it does not have much collector or numismatic value left. The multiple fine lines tell me that the coin has been cleaned or rubbed. The value is tied to melt, which has been up and down like a yo-yo.

The sharpness grade is Very Fine. These coins grade differently because the fields are the highest part of the design.

This coin is worth a lot more than melt, and appears to be more like AU to me. The color is because of his lighting/pictures technique, and I would guess it would straight grade too. The extreme closeups and harsh lighting gives it a cleaned look in a few pictures, but it looks ok in the first two pics.

Agree with it straight grading at AU50 or possibly XF45 depending on how much luster is remaining. The 1908 quarter eagle is tricky to grade since the mint used reverse dies that lacked feather detail on the upper part of the wing which gives the appearance of wear. This design defect was corrected in subsequent years.

lkenefic · March 10, 2022 12:12PM

My first impression was genuine, but I'm going to stop there. I've never seen a 1908 quarter Eagle with that much wear, so I'll defer to the experts...

Cool first post! And welcome aboard!!

WAYNEAS · March 10, 2022 12:38PM

@Karocia
Welcome aboard.
Wayne

Karocia · March 10, 2022 12:38PM

I am really surprised for a lot of attention for my first post, thanks.

The photos were taken using cheap surface microscope, so color differs from reality. The real color looks same as other .900 gold coins, including 5 dollar Liberty head coin.
Yes, the coin is highly wear, mostly eagle's wings. The most important thing for me is authenticity, as I saw a lot of info of this type counterfeiting, and I see that is almost impossible to determine authenticity for not skilled person...

I see that the 2.5 and 5 dollar Indian head type coins are one of the most beautiful gold coins of the World, so 2.5 was the first purchased, I am little bit fear to purchase $5, for high probability of counterfeit.

Karocia · March 10, 2022 1:20PM

I see the strange marks under the Indian cheeks at my coin, like some wrinkles of old man:

I haven't seen it anywhere, but now I found the same in the forum (post No 4919, first coin):
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1066469/gold-2-50-quarter-eagle-thread/p2

I think the same dies used to struck.

BillJones · March 10, 2022 1:26PM

Here is a 1908 quarter eagle in MS-64. You can see how much of the wing detail in missing on the OP coin. The missing detail on the 1908 quarter eagle is limited to upper portion of the wing. It does not go down the wing. That's why I am grading OP VF. Remember that the design details are below surface of the coin and protected.

That's why I am grading OP VF. Remember that the design details are below surface of the coin and protected. I saw one of these coins that was graded VG many years ago. You would not believe how much detail was left. That was one of the arguments for the incuse design.

This 1925-D is graded MS-65. Note the additional detail on the upper part of the wing, sort of the eagle's "shoulder."

PerryHall · March 10, 2022 1:37PM

@Karocia said:
I see the strange marks under the Indian cheeks at my coin, like some wrinkles of old man:

I haven't seen it anywhere, but now I found the same in the forum (post No 4919, first coin):
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1066469/gold-2-50-quarter-eagle-thread/p2

I think the same dies used to struck.

That's a result of a die clash where the two dies came together without a planchet between them and each die imparted part of its design on the other die.

jwitten · March 10, 2022 2:03PM

One of the main/first points of wear on the obverse is the Indian head band. Not the z zigzag line, but the little dotted lines running the length of the head was. Those are one of the first places to show wear... a VF coin would not have the details this one does. The reverse wing is just so hard to grade this one, being a 1908. I still say xf at worse, possible au.

@BillJones said:
Here is a 1908 quarter eagle in MS-64. You can see how much of the wing detail in missing on the OP coin. The missing detail on the 1908 quarter eagle is limited to upper portion of the wing. It does not go down the wing. That's why I am grading OP VF. Remember that the design details are below surface of the coin and protected.

That's why I am grading OP VF. Remember that the design details are below surface of the coin and protected. I saw one of these coins that was graded VG many years ago. You would not believe how much detail was left. That was one of the arguments for the incuse design.

This 1925-D is graded MS-65. Note the additional detail on the upper part of the wing, sort of the eagle's "shoulder."

mark_dak · March 10, 2022 2:16PM

Welcome,

Looks legit to me as well, just a fairly well circulated example. Personally I'd still buy that all day long over modern Eagle coins. VF maybe EF, not AU by any means. If that coin was sitting there for sale, I'd be willing to pay a small premium above today's $242 gold value.

Do you own a loupe? A rather inexpensive one will pay dividends far beyond it's cost. Here's one I just picked up that looks great at first glance. It also shows some hairlines that won't show in the picture that I wouldn't expect much better than a low AU (possible Details) grade:

Mark

MFeld · March 10, 2022 2:26PM

@mark_dak said:
Welcome,

Looks legit to me as well, just a fairly well circulated example. Personally I'd still buy that all day long over modern Eagle coins. VF maybe EF, not AU by any means. If that coin was sitting there for sale, I'd be willing to pay a small premium above today's $242 gold value.

Do you own a loupe? A rather inexpensive one will pay dividends far beyond it's cost. Here's one I just picked up that looks great at first glance. It also shows some hairlines that won't show in the picture that I wouldn't expect much better than a low AU (possible Details) grade:

Mark

>

The coin in the original post is worth a minimum of $350, wholesale.

mark_dak · March 10, 2022 2:38PM

@MFeld said:

@mark_dak said:
Welcome,

Looks legit to me as well, just a fairly well circulated example. Personally I'd still buy that all day long over modern Eagle coins. VF maybe EF, not AU by any means. If that coin was sitting there for sale, I'd be willing to pay a small premium above today's $242 gold value.

Do you own a loupe? A rather inexpensive one will pay dividends far beyond it's cost. Here's one I just picked up that looks great at first glance. It also shows some hairlines that won't show in the picture that I wouldn't expect much better than a low AU (possible Details) grade:

Mark

The coin’s worth a minimum of $350, wholesale.

I see dealers dragging the same coins back and forth to shows here locally every week. I pass by the same coins week after week. You can put a coin out on the dealer's table and price it for whatever you want but expect to pack it up at the end of the show. Good luck getting $350 on the OP coin. I'd get more than that on the one I added.

jwitten · March 10, 2022 3:59PM

@mark_dak said:

@MFeld said:

@mark_dak said:
Welcome,

Looks legit to me as well, just a fairly well circulated example. Personally I'd still buy that all day long over modern Eagle coins. VF maybe EF, not AU by any means. If that coin was sitting there for sale, I'd be willing to pay a small premium above today's $242 gold value.

Do you own a loupe? A rather inexpensive one will pay dividends far beyond it's cost. Here's one I just picked up that looks great at first glance. It also shows some hairlines that won't show in the picture that I wouldn't expect much better than a low AU (possible Details) grade:

Mark

The coin’s worth a minimum of $350, wholesale.

I see dealers dragging the same coins back and forth to shows here locally every week. I pass by the same coins week after week. You can put a coin out on the dealer's table and price it for whatever you want but expect to pack it up at the end of the show. Good luck getting $350 on the OP coin. I'd get more than that on the one I added.

I would personally pay more for op’s coin than yours. Yours is more baggy, cleaned looking. Remember, it does not have as much wear as most are thinking, being a 1908.

mark_dak · March 10, 2022 11:08PM

@jwitten said:

@mark_dak said:

@MFeld said:

@mark_dak said:
Welcome,

Looks legit to me as well, just a fairly well circulated example. Personally I'd still buy that all day long over modern Eagle coins. VF maybe EF, not AU by any means. If that coin was sitting there for sale, I'd be willing to pay a small premium above today's $242 gold value.

Do you own a loupe? A rather inexpensive one will pay dividends far beyond it's cost. Here's one I just picked up that looks great at first glance. It also shows some hairlines that won't show in the picture that I wouldn't expect much better than a low AU (possible Details) grade:

Mark

The coin’s worth a minimum of $350, wholesale.

I see dealers dragging the same coins back and forth to shows here locally every week. I pass by the same coins week after week. You can put a coin out on the dealer's table and price it for whatever you want but expect to pack it up at the end of the show. Good luck getting $350 on the OP coin. I'd get more than that on the one I added.

I would personally pay more for op’s coin than yours. Yours is more baggy, cleaned looking. Remember, it does not have as much wear as most are thinking, being a 1908.

If you like paying more for EF coins over AU condition ones I guess that would be a good move.

Karocia · March 13, 2022 12:36PM

Hi again. I would like to ask about another 2.5 dollar coin, the Liberty head type at this time. The coin looks "very new", so there is some worry about authenticity. I present the photos of this coin, together with $5 coin, because the color is also different. Microscope photos will be made tomorrow. Thank you.

Karocia · March 13, 2022 12:39PM

The rim looks little strange, the edges looks like turned on metal lathe, but maybe it must look like that, I don't know

lkenefic · March 13, 2022 2:34PM

If you have the means to weigh these gold coins on a gram scale, and measure their diameters with a caliper, it would go a long way to determining authenticity. I'd also buy a copy of the Redbook if you're going to get more heavily involved in collecting...

Karocia · March 14, 2022 1:13AM

Here is the microscope photos. Maybe you have some opinion about coin authenticity.

Karocia · March 14, 2022 1:19AM

@lkenefic said:
If you have the means to weigh these gold coins on a gram scale, and measure their diameters with a caliper, it would go a long way to determining authenticity. I'd also buy a copy of the Redbook if you're going to get more heavily involved in collecting...

Coin weight is 4.18g, thickness 1.30mm, diameter 17,94mm, approximate metal analysis results (for more accurate I need to check analysis report, I will do it later): Silver 0.5%, Copper 9.5%, Gold 90%.

PerryHall · March 14, 2022 2:44AM

Looks real. One pic shows several hairlines so it may have been cleaned.

lkenefic · March 14, 2022 9:25AM

Based on the weight, diameter measurements, and appearance it looks genuine to me as well. Possibly cleaned... if you decide to send it in to our hosts, please post your results.

...and thanks for sharing!

Karocia · March 15, 2022 8:13AM

Thank you for the comments. So, with high probability, the coin can be called as authentic? I have found some tool marks emerging from the denticles, under the word "OF", but maybe it is allowable in genuine coins also?

Thanks

Karocia · March 15, 2022 8:13AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKyPnzQieVM

jwitten · March 15, 2022 8:25AM

Nice coin. Make sure to try and hold it only touching the edge though, even with gloves. And no gloves are needed if you are holding it properly (gloves can make it easier to drop).

Karocia · March 16, 2022 9:17AM

@jwitten said:
Nice coin. Make sure to try and hold it only touching the edge though, even with gloves. And no gloves are needed if you are holding it properly (gloves can make it easier to drop).

Thank you. Yes, dropping on hard surfaces, like ceramic tiles, will be fatal in this case

Meanwhile I checked the alloy analysis sheet of the coin - Silver 0.5%, Copper 8.5%, Gold 91%. It is okay? (taking to account the official Au 90% Cu 10%)

2.5 dollar coins: 1908, 1861

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