@Joey29 said:
I don’t understand why people are upset with CAC threads as like it or not CAC is an important and integral part of the hobby. There are issues worth discussing concerning CAC just as there are issues with the TPG services that are discussed in this forum on a regular basis.
They aren't upset with the threads. They are upset with the existence of CAC.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Joey29 said:
I don’t understand why people are upset with CAC threads as like it or not CAC is an important and integral part of the hobby. There are issues worth discussing concerning CAC just as there are issues with the TPG services that are discussed in this forum on a regular basis.
They aren't upset with the threads. They are upset with the existence of CAC.
Yep.
Some people are unhappy because CAC increases competition for the coins they want to buy and others because they can't sell their non-CAC coins for as much as a CAC example.
@Joey29 said:
I don’t understand why people are upset with CAC threads as like it or not CAC is an important and integral part of the hobby. There are issues worth discussing concerning CAC just as there are issues with the TPG services that are discussed in this forum on a regular basis.
They aren't upset with the threads. They are upset with the existence of CAC.
Yep.
Some people are unhappy because CAC increases competition for the coins they want to buy and others because they can't sell their non-CAC coins for as much as a CAC example.
@MasonG said:
Some people are unhappy because CAC increases competition for the coins they want to buy and others because they can't sell their non-CAC coins for as much as a CAC example.
Nope & not even close.
I've got two VN's in the wings. There's a good chance my coins won't come up again for 80 years.
At that time PCGS, NGC & CAC could be a memory.
@pmh1nic said:
O.k., so CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. Does an ANACS or ICG coin never meet their standard? Does CAC figure putting a sticker on an ICG slab validates ICG as a reputable grading company? Or does CAC believe sticker a coin in an ICG slab diminishes the CAC reputation?
The bottom line is as you said - CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. That is their policy, end of story!
My question is what is the reasoning behind their policy?
Is this really important to you?
Important versus solving world hunger, no. Important as in an interesting bit of market information, yes. Do you know the answer?
Yes
You had know idea what the answer was until Kove
No
No you didn't. You don't have fake it. There is no shame in saying "I don't know".
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Joey29 said:
I don’t understand why people are upset with CAC threads as like it or not CAC is an important and integral part of the hobby. There are issues worth discussing concerning CAC just as there are issues with the TPG services that are discussed in this forum on a regular basis.
They aren't upset with the threads. They are upset with the existence of CAC.
Yep.
Some people are unhappy because CAC increases competition for the coins they want to buy and others because they can't sell their non-CAC coins for as much as a CAC example.
Raw coin seller’s and some collectors didn’t like PCGS or NGC back in the early eighties either, viewed them as “parasites “ that cost them money. CAC provides a valuable service to the consumer just as PCGS and NGC does.
@pmh1nic said:
O.k., so CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. Does an ANACS or ICG coin never meet their standard? Does CAC figure putting a sticker on an ICG slab validates ICG as a reputable grading company? Or does CAC believe sticker a coin in an ICG slab diminishes the CAC reputation?
The bottom line is as you said - CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. That is their policy, end of story!
My question is what is the reasoning behind their policy?
Is this really important to you?
Important versus solving world hunger, no. Important as in an interesting bit of market information, yes. Do you know the answer?
Yes
You had know idea what the answer was until Kove
No
No you didn't. You don't have fake it. There is no shame in saying "I don't
Superfluity.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Joey29 said:
I don’t understand why people are upset with CAC threads as like it or not CAC is an important and integral part of the hobby. There are issues worth discussing concerning CAC just as there are issues with the TPG services that are discussed in this forum on a regular basis.
They aren't upset with the threads. They are upset with the existence of CAC.
Yep.
Some people are unhappy because CAC increases competition for the coins they want to buy and others because they can't sell their non-CAC coins for as much as a CAC example.
Raw coin seller’s and some collectors didn’t like PCGS or NGC back in the early eighties either, viewed them as “parasites “ that cost them money. CAC provides a valuable service to the consumer just as PCGS and NGC does.
Not everyone has the expertise to know if a coin has some pvc, high point friction, surface alterations etc. or is overgraded. CAC is like an insurance policy, not that PCGS is not a overall very accurate excellent TPGS.
@pmh1nic said:
O.k., so CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. Does an ANACS or ICG coin never meet their standard? Does CAC figure putting a sticker on an ICG slab validates ICG as a reputable grading company? Or does CAC believe sticker a coin in an ICG slab diminishes the CAC reputation?
The bottom line is as you said - CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. That is their policy, end of story!
My question is what is the reasoning behind their policy?
Is this really important to you?
Important versus solving world hunger, no. Important as in an interesting bit of market information, yes. Do you know the answer?
Yes
You had know idea what the answer was until Kove
No
No you didn't. You don't have fake it. There is no shame in saying "I don't
Superfluity.
Confession is good for the soul. You'll feel better once you unload that burden of perfection anxiety. It really is o.k. to admit when you don't know something.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Joey29 said:
I don’t understand why people are upset with CAC threads as like it or not CAC is an important and integral part of the hobby. There are issues worth discussing concerning CAC just as there are issues with the TPG services that are discussed in this forum on a regular basis.
They aren't upset with the threads. They are upset with the existence of CAC.
Yep.
Some people are unhappy because CAC increases competition for the coins they want to buy and others because they can't sell their non-CAC coins for as much as a CAC example.
Raw coin seller’s and some collectors didn’t like PCGS or NGC back in the early eighties either, viewed them as “parasites “ that cost them money. CAC provides a valuable service to the consumer just as PCGS and NGC does.
Not everyone has the expertise to know if a coin has some pvc, high point friction, surface alterations etc. or is overgraded. CAC is like an insurance policy, not that PCGS is not a overall very accurate excellent TPGS.
You must mean assurance because cac will not pay you on any loss you may have indured for a cac verified coin.
@MasonG said:
What reflects more poorly on the hobby- providing a service that many people find valuable or mocking as suckers people who use that service?
Asking for a friend...
I don’t think the latter reflects poorly on the hobby, but rather, on the mockers. Answering for a friend.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MasonG said:
What reflects more poorly on the hobby- providing a service that many people find valuable or mocking as suckers people who use that service?
Asking for a friend...
I don’t think the latter reflects poorly on the hobby, but rather, on the mockers. Answering for a friend.😉
Maybe not directly but how would you feel, as a newer collector unsure of your grading skills who chooses to use the service, to find that your inexperience is being ridiculed?
@MasonG said:
What reflects more poorly on the hobby- providing a service that many people find valuable or mocking as suckers people who use that service?
Asking for a friend...
I don’t think the latter reflects poorly on the hobby, but rather, on the mockers. Answering for a friend.😉
Maybe not directly but how would you feel, as a newer collector unsure of your grading skills who chooses to use the service, to find that your inexperience is being ridiculed?
Well said.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@pmh1nic said:
O.k., so CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. Does an ANACS or ICG coin never meet their standard? Does CAC figure putting a sticker on an ICG slab validates ICG as a reputable grading company? Or does CAC believe sticker a coin in an ICG slab diminishes the CAC reputation?
The bottom line is as you said - CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. That is their policy, end of story!
My question is what is the reasoning behind their policy?
Is this really important to you?
Important versus solving world hunger, no. Important as in an interesting bit of market information, yes. Do you know the answer?
Yes
You had know idea what the answer was until Kove
No
No you didn't. You don't have fake it. There is no shame in saying "I don't
Superfluity.
Confession is good for the soul. You'll feel better once you unload that burden of perfection anxiety. It really is o.k. to admit when you don't know something.
That would be lying.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
While there are several reasons stated as to why certain collectors choose to not submit their coins to CAC at only $16 a pop (and NO charge for coins that don’t pass), knowing that their coins that do get a CAC, in general will have an increase in market value of at least that $16, and often much more, and also knowing their coins down the road will then be easier to sell to get fair value (whether by them or their heirs) I truly believe a BIG unspoken reason for their decision is because they fear the psychological repercussion if a well respected unbiased authority clearly says to them that the majority of their Collection eligible for a CAC is not up to the quality standard of meriting CAC’s!
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@MasonG said:
What reflects more poorly on the hobby- providing a service that many people find valuable or mocking as suckers people who use that service?
Asking for a friend...
I don’t think the latter reflects poorly on the hobby, but rather, on the mockers. Answering for a friend.😉
Maybe not directly but how would you feel, as a newer collector unsure of your grading skills who chooses to use the service, to find that your inexperience is being ridiculed?
This used to be said about buying pcgs/ngc coins vs. Raw but now that thought process seems to have morphed in that pcgs/ngc is no longer good enough if it does not have cac approval.
If I was a new collector, I think I would be more confused than anything else by all of the letters being thrown around on this hobby.
Astute collectors that have been in this industry for a very long time know that P T. Barnum was right.
Those collectors don't need a sticker to know what they have but will have a sticker put on when they want to sell for the Hopeful benefit of making more money when they sell.
CAC clearly states their stickered coins sell for more. It's an added value selling "tool".
Do buyers even enjoy looking at their coins anymore, or is it just a "cool, one more for the registry " and throw it in a box with everything else...
@gtstang said:
Astute collectors that have been in this industry for a very long time know that P T. Barnum was right.
Those collectors don't need a sticker to know what they have but will have a sticker put on when they want to sell for the Hopeful benefit of making more money when they sell.
CAC clearly states their stickered coins sell for more. It's an added value selling "tool".
Do buyers even enjoy looking at their coins anymore, or is it just a "cool, one more for the registry " and throw it in a box with everything else...
Honestly, hasn't the "looking" always been suspect? I mean, people put together Whitman albums full of average looking coins with a few crappy-looking key dates because they wanted to complete the series. How many spent a lot of time admiring their average-looking coins? How many people put even their nice looking coins in safety deposit boxes and visit them once every 5 or 10 years? Would an AG3 1916-D dime be anything more than $20 if people only bought them to admire them?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@pmh1nic said:
O.k., so CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. Does an ANACS or ICG coin never meet their standard? Does CAC figure putting a sticker on an ICG slab validates ICG as a reputable grading company? Or does CAC believe sticker a coin in an ICG slab diminishes the CAC reputation?
The bottom line is as you said - CAC will not sticker anything that is not in an NGC or PCGS holder. That is their policy, end of story!
My question is what is the reasoning behind their policy?
Is this really important to you?
Important versus solving world hunger, no. Important as in an interesting bit of market information, yes. Do you know the answer?
Yes
You had know idea what the answer was until Kove
No
No you didn't. You don't have fake it. There is no shame in saying "I don't
Superfluity.
Confession is good for the soul. You'll feel better once you unload that burden of perfection anxiety. It really is o.k. to admit when you don't know something.
That would be lying.
Add denial to perfection anxiety. You're a trouble individual.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@gtstang said:
but now that thought process seems to have morphed in that pcgs/ngc is no longer good enough if it does not have cac approval.
It's not good enough for some people, others are fine with just PCGS/NGC and some are even okay with raw coins.
@gtstang said:
If I was a new collector, I think I would be more confused than anything else by all of the letters being thrown around on this hobby.
Are there hobbies that don't have their own specific lingo and such?
There is no subject that doesn't have its own lingo. As I tell my students, taking 5 college courses is like taking 5 different languages simultaneously. Not only does each have its own language, they often have very different meanings. Look at one of our "special friends" who doesn't understand "original surfaces" as the term is used in numismatics.
How many people think that a 70 point grading scale makes sense? Just about every other collectible uses a "10" or "100" point scale. Wouldn't a newbie think that a coin that was a "65" had received a failing grade?
A printer's "proof" is more akin to a "pattern" coin which is similar to a stamp "essai".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@gtstang said:
but now that thought process seems to have morphed in that pcgs/ngc is no longer good enough if it does not have cac approval.
It's not good enough for some people, others are fine with just PCGS/NGC and some are even okay with raw coins.
@gtstang said:
If I was a new collector, I think I would be more confused than anything else by all of the letters being thrown around on this hobby.
Are there hobbies that don't have their own specific lingo and such?
There is no subject that doesn't have its own lingo. As I tell my students, taking 5 college courses is like taking 5 different languages simultaneously. Not only does each have its own language, they often have very different meanings. Look at one of our "special friends" who doesn't understand "original surfaces" as the term is used in numismatics.
How many people think that a 70 point grading scale makes sense? Just about every other collectible uses a "10" or "100" point scale. Wouldn't a newbie think that a coin that was a "65" had received a failing grade?
A printer's "proof" is more akin to a "pattern" coin which is similar to a stamp "essai".
You really want to go there...
I understand exactly what " original surfaces" means. You're the one claiming a coin with environmentally damaged surfaces, to borrow a phrase from Ricko, has original surfaces. You play in your numismatic metaverse making up your own reality. I'll play along with you to a certain extent but then let's get back to reality where words really mean something.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@winesteven said:
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again:
While there are several reasons stated as to why certain collectors choose to not submit their coins to CAC at only $16 a pop (and NO charge for coins that don’t pass), knowing that their coins that do get a CAC, in general will have an increase in market value of at least that $16, and often much more, and also knowing their coins down the road will then be easier to sell to get fair value (whether by them or their heirs) I truly believe a BIG unspoken reason for their decision is because they fear the psychological repercussion if a well respected unbiased authority clearly says to them that the majority of their Collection eligible for a CAC is not up to the quality standard of meriting CAC’s!
Guilty in part. I've done well with some series and not so well with others so have mixed emotions about exposing my ignorance. After experimenting l now feel that I can take my time and that I don't relish having my coins floating around the country. I like to enjoy them regularly. When I get ready to sell or get bored I will send them in as something to do. If I run out of time (oh oh) I've instructed my heirs to auction my collection with auction houses that routinely submit coins to CAC.
@gtstang said:
but now that thought process seems to have morphed in that pcgs/ngc is no longer good enough if it does not have cac approval.
It's not good enough for some people, others are fine with just PCGS/NGC and some are even okay with raw coins.
@gtstang said:
If I was a new collector, I think I would be more confused than anything else by all of the letters being thrown around on this hobby.
Are there hobbies that don't have their own specific lingo and such?
There is no subject that doesn't have its own lingo. As I tell my students, taking 5 college courses is like taking 5 different languages simultaneously. Not only does each have its own language, they often have very different meanings. Look at one of our "special friends" who doesn't understand "original surfaces" as the term is used in numismatics.
How many people think that a 70 point grading scale makes sense? Just about every other collectible uses a "10" or "100" point scale. Wouldn't a newbie think that a coin that was a "65" had received a failing grade?
A printer's "proof" is more akin to a "pattern" coin which is similar to a stamp "essai".
You really want to go there...
I understand exactly what " original surfaces" means. You're the one claiming a coin with environmentally damaged surfaces, to borrow a phrase from Ricko, has original surfaces. You play in your numismatic metaverse making up your own reality. I'll play along with you to a certain extent but then let's get back to reality where words really mean something.
QED
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@gtstang said:
but now that thought process seems to have morphed in that pcgs/ngc is no longer good enough if it does not have cac approval.
It's not good enough for some people, others are fine with just PCGS/NGC and some are even okay with raw coins.
@gtstang said:
If I was a new collector, I think I would be more confused than anything else by all of the letters being thrown around on this hobby.
Are there hobbies that don't have their own specific lingo and such?
There is no subject that doesn't have its own lingo. As I tell my students, taking 5 college courses is like taking 5 different languages simultaneously. Not only does each have its own language, they often have very different meanings. Look at one of our "special friends" who doesn't understand "original surfaces" as the term is used in numismatics.
How many people think that a 70 point grading scale makes sense? Just about every other collectible uses a "10" or "100" point scale. Wouldn't a newbie think that a coin that was a "65" had received a failing grade?
A printer's "proof" is more akin to a "pattern" coin which is similar to a stamp "essai".
You really want to go there...
I understand exactly what " original surfaces" means. You're the one claiming a coin with environmentally damaged surfaces, to borrow a phrase from Ricko, has original surfaces. You play in your numismatic metaverse making up your own reality. I'll play along with you to a certain extent but then let's get back to reality where words really mean something.
QED
KMB
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Comments
They aren't upset with the threads. They are upset with the existence of CAC.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yep.
Some people are unhappy because CAC increases competition for the coins they want to buy and others because they can't sell their non-CAC coins for as much as a CAC example.
And some have the same opinion as me and view them for what they are to the hobby.....a PARASITE!
Nope & not even close.
I've got two VN's in the wings. There's a good chance my coins won't come up again for 80 years.
At that time PCGS, NGC & CAC could be a memory.
Talking money while looking at art is vulgar.
My Saint Set
It's a good thing their service is entirely voluntary, then. That allows anybody who doesn't believe they add value to the hobby to ignore them.
Or maybe not.
No you didn't. You don't have fake it. There is no shame in saying "I don't know".
Yep.
If people didn't consider these services valuable, they wouldn't use them.
Superfluity.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Same argument. Different thread. No minds are ever changed.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I’m liking @jmlanzaf ’s new brevity. 🤗
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
Thanks
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Impressed by CU forums tolerance of controversial issues like this.
I'm hoping he takes it one step further.
Sorry
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Confession is good for the soul. You'll feel better once you unload that burden of perfection anxiety. It really is o.k. to admit when you don't know something.
You must mean assurance because cac will not pay you on any loss you may have indured for a cac verified coin.
So cute, but ignores the true reality of our numismatic market! Do so at your own peril. However, I think we’re both laughing, so all is good!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
What reflects more poorly on the hobby- providing a service that many people find valuable or mocking as suckers people who use that service?
Asking for a friend...
I don’t think the latter reflects poorly on the hobby, but rather, on the mockers. Answering for a friend.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Maybe not directly but how would you feel, as a newer collector unsure of your grading skills who chooses to use the service, to find that your inexperience is being ridiculed?
Well said.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That would be lying.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again:
While there are several reasons stated as to why certain collectors choose to not submit their coins to CAC at only $16 a pop (and NO charge for coins that don’t pass), knowing that their coins that do get a CAC, in general will have an increase in market value of at least that $16, and often much more, and also knowing their coins down the road will then be easier to sell to get fair value (whether by them or their heirs) I truly believe a BIG unspoken reason for their decision is because they fear the psychological repercussion if a well respected unbiased authority clearly says to them that the majority of their Collection eligible for a CAC is not up to the quality standard of meriting CAC’s!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
This used to be said about buying pcgs/ngc coins vs. Raw but now that thought process seems to have morphed in that pcgs/ngc is no longer good enough if it does not have cac approval.
If I was a new collector, I think I would be more confused than anything else by all of the letters being thrown around on this hobby.
It's not good enough for some people, others are fine with just PCGS/NGC and some are even okay with raw coins.
Are there hobbies that don't have their own specific lingo and such?
Astute collectors that have been in this industry for a very long time know that P T. Barnum was right.
Those collectors don't need a sticker to know what they have but will have a sticker put on when they want to sell for the Hopeful benefit of making more money when they sell.
CAC clearly states their stickered coins sell for more. It's an added value selling "tool".
Do buyers even enjoy looking at their coins anymore, or is it just a "cool, one more for the registry " and throw it in a box with everything else...
Honestly, hasn't the "looking" always been suspect? I mean, people put together Whitman albums full of average looking coins with a few crappy-looking key dates because they wanted to complete the series. How many spent a lot of time admiring their average-looking coins? How many people put even their nice looking coins in safety deposit boxes and visit them once every 5 or 10 years? Would an AG3 1916-D dime be anything more than $20 if people only bought them to admire them?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Add denial to perfection anxiety. You're a trouble individual.
There is no subject that doesn't have its own lingo. As I tell my students, taking 5 college courses is like taking 5 different languages simultaneously. Not only does each have its own language, they often have very different meanings. Look at one of our "special friends" who doesn't understand "original surfaces" as the term is used in numismatics.
How many people think that a 70 point grading scale makes sense? Just about every other collectible uses a "10" or "100" point scale. Wouldn't a newbie think that a coin that was a "65" had received a failing grade?
A printer's "proof" is more akin to a "pattern" coin which is similar to a stamp "essai".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Staggering to its inevitable demise this thread is.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Surprise there is not
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Better with pictures...
"Adventure. Excitement. A Jedi craves not these CAC threads".
Sorry......
CAC threads =The Dark Side
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
You really want to go there...
I understand exactly what " original surfaces" means. You're the one claiming a coin with environmentally damaged surfaces, to borrow a phrase from Ricko, has original surfaces. You play in your numismatic metaverse making up your own reality. I'll play along with you to a certain extent but then let's get back to reality where words really mean something.
Guilty in part. I've done well with some series and not so well with others so have mixed emotions about exposing my ignorance. After experimenting l now feel that I can take my time and that I don't relish having my coins floating around the country. I like to enjoy them regularly. When I get ready to sell or get bored I will send them in as something to do. If I run out of time (oh oh) I've instructed my heirs to auction my collection with auction houses that routinely submit coins to CAC.
QED
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
You betcha' I'd buy raw gold all day long!
KMB