PCGS and NGC ....both with CAC
FrankH
Posts: 982 ✭✭✭✭✭
And the PCGS is the preferred one.
Why? Seems silly. Does CAC assess all the NGC coins submitted in a closet?
Where's the "buy the coin; not the label?"
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Comments
Congratulations. You've started a thread that has been started a dozen times before and shut down 11 times before.
Before the close. You're right about the closet but it's not the submission it's the viewing. PCGs CAC beats NGC CAC when viewing in a dark closet. When viewed in the light, the better coin wins even if raw.
In before the lock…
Assuming people are looking at the coin and not the label/sticker (if any).
Just sayin'.
As I said. Depends on whether the lights are on.
People forget that raw walker that sold in Europe for $10k+. Remember the consternation in these parts?
I should add that there might be a plastic premium for people that want their coins to match. It saves the cost and time for crossover submission.
This is the PCGS forum. There's consternation (maybe not universal, but still) whenever anybody slabs/buys/sells any coin not in PCGS plastic.
The market is as the market does.
I’ll say no more
Always true. Argue with the market at your own risk.
Over the years I found that it’s not worth fighting the market. I only collect PCGS CAC gold.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
What is confusing to me is in a recent discussion
"In the PCGS registry there are 244 IHC sets vs 439 wheat cent sets, in the NGC registry there is 569 IHC sets vs 1063 Lincoln sets."
Why would that be if PCGS coins are preferred? Maybe because NGC accepts both PCGS and NGC coins in their registry?
Or….
I think the question alluded to in the OP is whether CAC has its own grading standard or makes the judgment on whether to sticker a coin based on the differing standards used by these major grading companies. When an NGC coin is sticker is CAC indicating the coin is solid based on NGC's assessment of grade (typically thought to be not as stringent as PCGS) or a standard CAC adheres to that may be different from both NGC and PCGS?
I had this exact discussion with a customer in shop the other day on a 1939-s WLH He had 2 coins, both Ms-66 CAC'd. one PCGS the other NGC. In this case, I liked the NGC coin better, but I told him in auction, most likely the pcgs coin would bring more if selling.
That is not how CAC works. They do not have separate NGC/PCGS standards.
Id buy either. I have no preference.
NGC stopped allowing new PCGS slabbed coins into their registry several years ago.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Absolutely incorrect! Only a few months ago I started, and added my entire collection to dozens of NGC Registry sets, all for curiosity. My collection is 100% PCGS graded coins. As I regularly add new coins to my PCGS Registry sets, I also add those same PCGS graded coins to my NGC sets. The last addition was this past week!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I believe that you’re both correct. NGC did stop accepting PCGS coins in their sets for some time, but subsequently started allowing them again about two years ago.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It’s simple: people are irrational at times and have preferences.
Thanks for setting the record straight. I didn't realize NGC went back to allowing PCGS coins in their registry which I think was the right thing to do. I'm glad to see that at least one of the major grading services is practicing inclusivity.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I’d hope the better coin would win out. It seems that there are so many plastic and sticker collectors out there that the coin has become secondary to a large portion of the market unfortunately.
They didn’t do it for altruism. Registry participants were leaving in droves, and its registry was a shell of what it was before the reversal.
I believe CAC grades the coins to their standards, regardless of host plastic. That would say that CAC 'judges the coin, not the plastic'.... As so often such advice is promoted to collectors. Cheers, RickO
Poof........ again.........
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
CAC applies CAC standards. Its published bid prices do not distinguish between PCGS CAC and NGC CAC.
Ah-HAH! Absolutely!
The "market", having no bearing on the attributes of the product does indeed rule the roost.
@jmlanzaf also said, " It saves the cost and time for crossover submission."
which, I'm sure influences a part of the situation.
Personally, I buy both. Preponderantly PCGS as the market offers more higher end coins in the PCGS holder than in the NGC holders.
Thanks all for the discussion. The market is made up of viewpoints and now we have a few more.
I like ice cream with my cac
If you read and understood my post I wasn’t make a statement I was asking a question. There were two sides to the question so you statement “this is not how CAC works” doesn’t clear address the question and is superfluous. The answer is “They (CAC) do not have separate NGC/PCGS standards.” If I’m understanding you correctly you are saying CAC has its own standard for what an MS-65 coin should look like. Is that what you’re saying? If yes, is there anywhere on their website that details what those standards are?
I guess the sticker must be like the cherry on top.
I thought his answer was clear (and less superfluous than part of your above reply).
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No one likes the new, concise Joe.
I gave various scenarios and used them to form a question. jmlanzaf began his response with “this is not how CAC works” which is not only superfluous but wrong based on the last part of his response. One of the possibilities I alluded to was CAC stickers based on their own internal standard which is exact what jmlanzaf claims is the case when he says “they do not have separate NGC/PCGS standards” if you believe they have different standards for grading coins.
Are you saying NGC and PCGS use the same grading standards?
It shouldn't matter but it does. Some people prefer PCGC to NGC. I'm one of them. To each is own
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
PCGS is only the preferred one for those that are plastic dependent, for those who can properly evaluate a coin the reliance on the brand of plastic is moot. Yes in some cases (not all) a PCGS CAC will sell for more than an NGC CAC, some of that has to do with the afore noted need for the plastic and some of it revolves around the registry. It is also true that as long as there are some of the old guard dealers still around that were recruited by Mr. Hall who preach the plastic first, some portion of the market will be swayed into thinking that there is a difference.
Each coin should be evaluated on its merits and worts, I have seen plenty of PCGS CAC coins I do not like just as I have seen plenty of NGC CAC coins I do not like. So if you are smart and can think without the dependence on plastic and marketing then you have the opportunity to purchase some fantastic coins at a slight discount because of the market bias.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
When I need a sharp stick in the eye, I'll respond.
You're worried about 6 superfluous words and then you give me 4 superfluous sentences.
PCGS cac brings more money at auction, especially old holders. All are equal, but some are more equal than others.
You contradicted yourself in your respond to my multipart question. Next time I'll try to keep it simple for you.
Flip anymore 2021 commemorative Morgans lately?
3 more superfluous sentences.
This raises the question I was trying to ask early. Does CAC have its own standards by which it grades all coins regardless of which slab they are in? If CAC says a coin is solid for the 65 grade on the label it's not saying it's solid based on PCGS or NGC or ANACS or ICG standards but the CAC standard of what a 65 coin should be. If that is the case the CAC sticker should Trump the initials of the grading company on the label and command the same price, although that may not be the case based on an individual's bias for one of those grading companies.
The first sentence is accurate rather than superfluous. The second is an exercise in compassionate outreach to the needy during this holiday season. The third was in response to your request for a stick in the eye.
The fact they are not willing to accept submissions of Anacs, ICG or other holders shows that they have a very specific criteria for their work. Absolutely objectivity does not exist in numismatics. The two top grading services have guarantees on their grades, same thing with the green bean. Cac has a right to hold its cards close to its chest and not release serial numbers of coins that did not pass. Why should they? All these companies are doing their very best under the trying and challenging circumstances.
Superfluous question. Asked and answered. They pay no attention to NGC or PCGS. They affirm the number using their standard.
But, please, ask again.
I prefer PCGS but will happily accept NGC if the coin speaks for itself. CAC is a bonus to me, but not mandatory.
I think this coin speaks for itself, NGC and no sticker…. Anyone who would pass on this because it’s not stickered is insane.
But PCGS with CAC is also very nice, both coins are part of my type set and I’m fine with them as they currently are:
Honestly I believe the $10 Indian is a gold sticker waiting to happen. Maybe one day I’ll send it.
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Answered by who? You? And that ends the discussion? Maybe in your house but I doubt it...LOL.
How can CAC "pay no attention to NGC or PCGS" but affirm the number? That makes no sense. At a minimum they're paying attention to the number PCGS or NGC put on the label. That said once a coin has the sticker it shouldn't matter whose slab it's in, CAC has said it's solid based on their standard for that grade.
Now I realize that's the ideal scenario and not the case in the real world. There is still TPG bias in the marketplace.
BTW, does CAC sticker ANACS, ICG and coins in other holder other than PCGS and NGC?
More on superfluity.
Not really. If they are merely saying that the number on the slab meets their standards, what difference does it make who assigned the number?
Well, a NGC box of 20 cannot be placed upright in my safe deposit box. A PCGS box fits in perfectly.
The mods could ignore the fact it is another CAC thread of the same question
And
Shut it down due to the bickering
Real men buy raw
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