Counterfeit Gold Eagles

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Herb_T
Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I would have never guessed that my 2010-w $10 (one each via NGC AND PCGS) and a 2012-w $25 NGC. All of them had what looked like correct hologram stickers on the back. The two that were NGC had holders with large clearance between the coin and the white plastic on the holder. The easiest tell is Gauden’s initials on the front. The counterfeit is clearly not AG, but a mish mash. The initials on the back of the coins have what looks like a different font, close but not correct. The easiest tell is the AG.

I want to thank Kliao and ifthevamzarockin for pointing out the problems with the coins. There are other issues with the coins and holders, but the AG clinched it for me.

Potential counterfeit

Good coin

«1

Comments

  • Mitchell
    Mitchell Posts: 595 ✭✭✭✭
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    Ok, I’ll bite. Where did you get these coins at?

    Successful BST: dmwjr, ike126, bajjerfan, morganman94, sonoradesertrat, 12voltman, duiguy, gsaguy, gsa1fan, martin, coinfame, zas107, bothuwui, gerard, kccoin, jtwitten, robcool, coinscoins, mountain_goat, and a few more.
  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2021 9:17PM
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    Sorry :'(

    More photos of both sides of all coins may help others learn what to look for. ;)

  • MedalCollector
    MedalCollector Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    There is no question that the first is no good. All the details are wrong.

  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    eBay! I have been able to go back and find the seller that sold me the $25 gold coin. I will make this my mission tomorrow.

  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Of course the coin that was sold to me, wasn’t the coin that was delivered!

  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Post pics of both sides of all coins

    And

    Both sides of the slabs

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • pmh1nic
    pmh1nic Posts: 3,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wow, sorry to hear about this. Have you checked the coins for material content?

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I will provide further answers and photos. I need to get the process moving for getting my money back with eBay/PayPal.

  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yikes! Keep us posted as we all benefit from this situation. Good luck. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • Kliao
    Kliao Posts: 5,802 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Sorry I had to break the bad news but hopefully it ends out well for you and you get your money back.

    The fake labels on those coins were pretty good in my opinion and would have fooled me.

    Collector
    Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wow... Sorry to hear this.... Buying gold is risky, and when not evaluated in hand, very risky. Seems you were scammed with the switch. Good luck with the process... Hope you get your money back. Cheers, RickO

  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    These are the three suspected eBay sellers that sold me the counterfeit coins.

  • WAYNEAS
    WAYNEAS Posts: 7,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hope eBay comes to the rescue for you.
    Let us know the outcome.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @WAYNEAS said:
    Hope eBay comes to the rescue for you.
    Let us know the outcome.
    Wayne

    eBay sure doesn’t make it easy. Had to do a lot of digging!

  • Project Numismatics
    Project Numismatics Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Details on that counterfeit are extremely mushy. I’m sure the seller was hoping you would just put it away with only a cursory inspection. Good luck on the resolution - I’m sorry this happened to you.

  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    tell them it is illegal to mail them, then keep them

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/295
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/298

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @J2035 said:
    Details on that counterfeit are extremely mushy. I’m sure the seller was hoping you would just put it away with only a cursory inspection. Good luck on the resolution - I’m sorry this happened to you.

    And they were right! I decided I needed more room for coins and that meant getting rid of duplicates that I had…it was only the keen eyes of some fellow forum members that turned this up. I will stay after this until I get a resolution. I sent messages to the 3 sellers. What is probably a coincidence, but all 3 of them had feedback in the 120 range…+/-1!

  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If you used a credit card to pay you may have better luck with them rather than ebay.

  • lonemountaincoin
    lonemountaincoin Posts: 99 ✭✭✭
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    Would you mind sending pictures of the entire slab(s)? I'd like to use it as examples and challenges in my facebook group. Thank you and sorry it happened to you. The first pic posted is clearly NG.

    Owner, Lone Mountain Coin
    Rare Ingot Collector - Always on the hunt for more!

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  • AUandAG
    AUandAG Posts: 25,049 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Good luck, another reason to buy expensive coins (to me at least) from face to face with a dealer or from a known credible source (BST comes to mind, for most of us).
    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Pre33goldbug said:
    Would you mind sending pictures of the entire slab(s)? I'd like to use it as examples and challenges in my facebook group. Thank you and sorry it happened to you. The first pic posted is clearly NG.

    Posted

  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @AUandAG said:
    Good luck, another reason to buy expensive coins (to me at least) from face to face with a dealer or from a known credible source (BST comes to mind, for most of us).
    bob :)

  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Any chance of getting reverse slab shots too? ;)

  • derryb
    derryb Posts: 38,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    got a Sigma?

    Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat

  • Onastone
    Onastone Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2021 4:31PM
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    Look at the face closely. It's definitely off. Even the hair details are off.

  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That top one reminds me of a ghost :/

  • moursund
    moursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Does PCGS take an active role in stomping on counterfeit PCGS slabs?

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    Any chance of getting reverse slab shots too? ;)

    Sent to you

  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • blitzdude
    blitzdude Posts: 7,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2021 5:18PM
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    No need for a sigma, additional pics, where did you purchase from etc. If you cant quickly tell they are fake from the original pic you have no business buying PMs unless you like to be suckered out of $$$ IMO. Hope you sire (the op) recovers your lost funds.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The NGC labels look like they were made on a cheap copy machine. That’s the easy tell.

    The pcgs counterfeit holder is quite deceptive but has subtle tells that I won’t disclose. I’ll only say to examine every detail with a genuine one.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2021 7:14PM
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    @J2035 said:
    Details on that counterfeit are extremely mushy. I’m sure the seller was hoping you would just put it away with only a cursory inspection. Good luck on the resolution - I’m sorry this happened to you.

    How can you be “sure” about what the seller knew or hoped?

    Edited to add: ...other than through the post below this one.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    For all the folks saying the OP should have spotted a problem.

    I did a little research on the $10 NGC.
    It was sold using a photo of the genuine coin & holder.
    The seller sold 2 of these within a few days.
    The seller went out of their way to deceive and anyone here could have been a victim of this well played scam.

    Listing photo

  • Project Numismatics
    Project Numismatics Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @J2035 said:
    Details on that counterfeit are extremely mushy. I’m sure the seller was hoping you would just put it away with only a cursory inspection. Good luck on the resolution - I’m sorry this happened to you.

    How can you be “sure” about what the seller knew or hoped?

    Edited to add: ...other than through the post below this one.

    My understanding is that the seller posted a legitimate coin and photos for sale and sent the OP a a different coin which was fake. Seems pretty clear cut case of fraud Mark. Are you defending the sellers actions? If so, why?

    Of course it could happen to anyone - the photos posted were legitimate… I don’t think anyone is blaming the victim.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @J2035 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @J2035 said:
    Details on that counterfeit are extremely mushy. I’m sure the seller was hoping you would just put it away with only a cursory inspection. Good luck on the resolution - I’m sorry this happened to you.

    How can you be “sure” about what the seller knew or hoped?

    Edited to add: ...other than through the post below this one.

    My understanding is that the seller posted a legitimate coin and photos for sale and sent the OP a a different coin which was fake. Seems pretty clear cut case of fraud Mark. Are you defending the sellers actions? If so, why?

    Of course it could happen to anyone - the photos posted were legitimate… I don’t think anyone is blaming the victim.

    Of course I’m not defending the seller’s actions or blaming the victim. Were your questions serious?
    My understanding is the same as yours, now, but it wasn’t at the time of your post, to which I replied.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Project Numismatics
    Project Numismatics Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2021 8:11PM
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    @MFeld - Only partially serious. I interpreted that you thought I was blaming OP - which I am not.

    I was also confused why you might think this case is anything other than fraud after OP stated, “Of course the coin that was sold to me, wasn’t the coin that was delivered!” prior to either of our posts.

    Anyway, the dangers of internet commenting. Cheers!

  • pmh1nic
    pmh1nic Posts: 3,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @blitzdude said:
    No need for a sigma, additional pics, where did you purchase from etc. If you cant quickly tell they are fake from the original pic you have no business buying PMs unless you like to be suckered out of $$$ IMO. Hope you sire (the op) recovers your lost funds.

    I think the Sigma will let him know if these are gold counterfeits or counterfeits made of some other material.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @J2035 said:
    @MFeld - Only partially serious. I interpreted that you thought I was blaming OP - which I am not.

    I was also confused why you might think this case is anything other than fraud after OP stated, “Of course the coin that was sold to me, wasn’t the coin that was delivered!” prior to either of our posts.

    Anyway, the dangers of internet commenting. Cheers!

    Sorry for the misunderstanding - I didn’t think for even a moment, that you were blaming the OP. And I initially missed “Of course the coin that was sold to me, wasn’t the coin that was delivered!”. That was my fault.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have found 2 of the 3 charges. I have talked to the cc company and they opened up disputes for them. I am still trying to find the method I used to purchase the third coin. I will keep looking.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Herb_T said:
    I have found 2 of the 3 charges. I have talked to the cc company and they opened up disputes for them. I am still trying to find the method I used to purchase the third coin. I will keep looking.

    That sounds encouraging. Best of luck.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jdimmick
    jdimmick Posts: 9,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    There were a rash of these floating around in NC a few years ago, several dealers here got scammed

    Jim

    One of the dealers here, (no longer in business) had called me over to look at a few , I instantly detected the fakes, he had no clue, had bought like 15-20 of them

  • Herb_T
    Herb_T Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jdimmick said:
    There were a rash of these floating around in NC a few years ago, several dealers here got scammed

    Jim

    One of the dealers here, (no longer in business) had called me over to look at a few , I instantly detected the fakes, he had no clue, had bought like 15-20 of them

    Ouch!

  • Downtown1974
    Downtown1974 Posts: 7,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The coins themselves are an easy giveaway, but that PCGS slab is a pretty convincing fake.

  • mark_dak
    mark_dak Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jdimmick said:
    There were a rash of these floating around in NC a few years ago, several dealers here got scammed

    Jim

    One of the dealers here, (no longer in business) had called me over to look at a few , I instantly detected the fakes, he had no clue, had bought like 15-20 of them

    Did he ever get the opportunity to determine metal content?

  • jdimmick
    jdimmick Posts: 9,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    They look plated to me, but not sure of under metal.

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jdimmick said:
    They look plated to me, but not sure of under metal.

    Agree. It wouldn't make sense to use real gold to counterfeit a modern gold eagle. Probably gold plated brass. The slab keeps it from being easily weighed and most people don't have ready access to a Sigma analyzer.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:

    @jdimmick said:
    They look plated to me, but not sure of under metal.

    Agree. It wouldn't make sense to use real gold to counterfeit a modern gold eagle. Probably gold plated brass. The slab keeps it from being easily weighed and most people don't have ready access to a Sigma analyzer.

    Agree. You see real gold with coins that have a premium. At best, thick plating on a bullion coin or bar

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • streeter
    streeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Color me confused. Why buy graded bullion on ebay? Factoring in ebay's fee would make the final cost high let alone the risk factor of 1) unknown seller 2) eBay 3) shipping.

    Have a nice day

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