Should this coin Receive a CAC Sticker?

Options
amwldcoin
amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 30, 2021 6:02AM in U.S. Coin Forum

«134

Comments

  • Steven59
    Steven59 Posts: 11,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2021 10:40AM
    Options

    This is one that CAC blows blew it to me

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Because they put stickers on slabs?

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @MasonG said:
    Because they put stickers on slabs?

    I think he just wants the thread closed down.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:
    Because they put stickers on slabs?

    I think he just wants the thread closed down.

    Not starting it wouldn't have worked for that?

  • Goldminers
    Goldminers Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Did you expect gold? 🤔

    My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:
    Because they put stickers on slabs?

    I think he just wants the thread closed down.

    Not starting it wouldn't have worked for that?

    Doesn't garner the same attention or sense of satisfaction?

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @jmlanzaf said:
    That's an F12 these days according to me, CAC and gets the PCGS photograde picture

    I checked the PCGS photograde pictures and this is what they say:

    I don't see VG10 or F15, but then, that's just me.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    That's an F12 these days according to me, CAC and gets the PCGS photograde picture

    I checked the PCGS photograde pictures and this is what they

    I don't see VG10 or F15, but then, that's just me.

    I agree, as above. Maybe we're misinterpreting the OP.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • Soldi
    Soldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 7:34PM
    Options

    F-12 isn't what it used to be.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I agree, as above. Maybe we're misinterpreting the OP.

    Wouldn't you have to know what point he's trying to make in order to misinterpret it?

  • mr1931S
    mr1931S Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    CAC is telling the OP what he already knows? That's why it blows?

    "Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein-

    Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I agree, as above. Maybe we're misinterpreting the OP.

    Wouldn't you have to know what point he's trying to make in order to misinterpret it?

    I don't think so. We think he's objecting to the sticker. Maybe that's our misinterpretation.

    Maybe it's the location of the sticker. He could be left- handed.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Gen 4.4, 2005-2011

    Collector, occasional seller

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @mr1874 said:
    I don't think so. We think he's objecting to the sticker. Maybe that's our misinterpretation.

    I don't think anybody is obligated to agree with CAC. Are they?

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @MasonG said:

    @mr1874 said:
    I don't think so. We think he's objecting to the sticker. Maybe that's our misinterpretation.

    I don't think anybody is obligated to agree with CAC. Are they?

    The only obligation is to complain about CAC decisions that you don't agree with. Lol

    I wonder why he's not objecting to PCGS as well. It's not like CAC did anything but affirm the PCGS grade.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    I'll happily pay you VG money if you think it's overgraded.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2021 11:54AM
    Options

    So do you think that is an A or B coin? I'm sorry...that's a F to me that shouldn't be in a problem free holder!

    @jmlanzaf said:
    That's an F12 these days according to me, CAC and here's the PCGS photograde picture

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @amwldcoin said:
    So do you think that is an A or B coin? I'm sorry...that's an F to me that shouldn't be in a holder!

    @jmlanzaf said:
    That's an F12 these days according to me, CAC and here's the PCGS photograde picture

    I think that a B F12 in the current market

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 8:06PM
    Options

    @amwldcoin said:
    So do you think that is an A or B coin? I'm sorry...that's an F to me that shouldn't be in a problem free holder!

    You're grading from the picture you posted?

    edited to add... it seems to have been taken to best represent the paper insert and CAC sticker. The coin itself? Not so much.

  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Well! you won't sell that coin to me or any of my customers!

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    So do you think that is an A or B coin? I'm sorry...that's an F to me that shouldn't be in a holder!

    @jmlanzaf said:
    That's an F12 these days according to me, CAC and here's the PCGS photograde picture

    I think that a B F12 in the current market

  • pmh1nic
    pmh1nic Posts: 3,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Of course...that picture says all I need to see.

    @MasonG said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    So do you think that is an A or B coin? I'm sorry...that's an F to me that shouldn't be in a problem free holder!

    You're grading from the picture you posted?

    edited to add... it seems to have been taken to best represent the paper insert and CAC sticker. The coin itself? Not so much.

  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    and cleaned!

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?

  • Project Numismatics
    Project Numismatics Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @amwldcoin said:

    Coin is cleaned - too many hairlines across the cheek. Ignoring that, it’s a “C” level F12. Pre-1900 weak strike - can’t compare it to a 1914 photo grade. Would help to post the reverse…

  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Here ya go!

    @J2035 said:

    @amwldcoin said:

    Coin is cleaned - too many hairlines across the cheek. Ignoring that, it’s a “C” level F12. Pre-1900 weak strike - can’t compare it to a 1914 photo grade. Would help to post the reverse…

  • pmh1nic
    pmh1nic Posts: 3,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?

    I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    What is it about this coin that offends you so much?

    Collector, occasional seller

  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 8:20PM
    Options

    Total lack of originality! Do I really need to tell you that?????

    @ChrisH821 said:
    What is it about this coin that offends you so much?

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @pmh1nic said:

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?

    I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.

    Ok- you think you don't need to see a coin in hand to accurately grade it. Got it.

  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    OMG! There are just some things you can't photoshop! I will also say I think that is an honest photo and would give you odds it looks like the pictures!

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?

    I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.

    Ok- you think you don't need to see a coin in hand to accurately grade it. Got it.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    Not according to PCGS photograde.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @amwldcoin said:
    OMG! There are just some things you can't photoshop! I will also say I think that is an honest photo and would give you odds it looks like the pictures!

    Ok.

  • oreville
    oreville Posts: 12,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 11:43PM
    Options

    I am a big fan of CAC but in this case I agree with amwldcoins in that PCGS AND CAC blew it on this slab. That being said, CAC gets it wrong 2% of the time which means they get it right 98% of the time and when you multiply that to PCGS getting it right another 96% of the time you get a lot closer to 100% accuracy.

    But there are always exceptions. I am sure even JA would agree. Even he would admit he is not perfect.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • Project Numismatics
    Project Numismatics Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @amwldcoin said:
    Here ya go!

    @J2035 said:

    @amwldcoin said:

    Coin is cleaned - too many hairlines across the cheek. Ignoring that, it’s a “C” level F12. Pre-1900 weak strike - can’t compare it to a 1914 photo grade. Would help to post the reverse…

    I think it just squeaks by as a 12. Detail on eagle’s neck, wings, tail feathers is borderline VG10. I have several VG10s with noticeably more detail.

    I’m perfectly comfortable disagreeing with CAC on this one but I can see PCGS 12 (barely).

    Don’t feel I really need to see this in hand to reject paying CAC premium though.

  • braddick
    braddick Posts: 25,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    That's a DANSCO 7070 typeset FN12 yet I agree it isn't a PCGS/CAC FN12...

  • Raybo
    Raybo Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:

    @mr1874 said:
    I don't think so. We think he's objecting to the sticker. Maybe that's our misinterpretation.

    I don't think anybody is obligated to agree with CAC. Are they?

    The only obligation is to complain about CAC decisions that you don't agree with. Lol

    I wonder why he's not objecting to PCGS as well. It's not like CAC did anything but affirm the PCGS grade.

    This /\

    And it's not like the coin is high dollar in the first place and... nobody's perfect.

  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 10:01PM
    Options

    Better images here: Oops bad link.

    Here it is: https://coins.ha.com/itm/barber-half-dollars/1896-s-50c-fine-12-pcgs-cac-pcgs-population-9-108-ngc-census-4-55-mintage-1-140-948-numismedia-wsl-price-for-pr/a/1145-9832.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0

  • pmh1nic
    pmh1nic Posts: 3,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 9:58PM
    Options

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?

    I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.

    Ok- you think you don't need to see a coin in hand to accurately grade it. Got it.

    In this case no, I don't need to see the coin in hand. Got it?

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • mannie gray
    mannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Not a coin I would buy for problem-free Fine money.

  • CoinJunkie
    CoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 10:28PM
    Options

    @pmh1nic said:

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?

    I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.

    Ok- you think you don't need to see a coin in hand to accurately grade it. Got it.

    In this case no, I don't need to see the coin in hand. Got it?

    Pavlovian contrarians rarely get it...

    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,043 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Yeah, polished/cleaned and recolored.

    How many more disagrees do you have versus how many agrees?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2021 4:43AM
    Options

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @pmh1nic said:

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:

    @MasonG said:

    @pmh1nic said:
    I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.

    PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?

    I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.

    Ok- you think you don't need to see a coin in hand to accurately grade it. Got it.

    In this case no, I don't need to see the coin in hand. Got it?

    Pavlovian contrarians rarely get it...

    But who is the Pavlovian contrarian? The anti-CACer?

    This is yet another case of 2 pro grading teams having viewed the coin in hand and agreed on a grade being attacked by people who have only seen a picture. That seems more like the reflexive contrarian position than the people who said that it looks like the photograde image.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • fathom
    fathom Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Every commercial enterprise has inconsistencies. Some more than others. In this marketplace it has been my experience that CAC is rarely inconsistent, especially compared to the major market makers, stakeholders, TPGs and commercial buyers and sellers.

    So to those who specifically call out CAC it evokes a very emotional bias. In any case the marketplace will determine, especially here.

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,878 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Not a fan.

  • amwldcoin
    amwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    If people can rave about the good, why shouldn't people be able to talk about the bad and the ugly? Should these types be swept under the rug so people can't learn????

    @MFeld said:
    This is exactly one of the reasons this thread blows for me:

    “Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.”

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,133 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2021 5:56AM
    Options

    @amwldcoin said:
    If people can rave about the good, why shouldn't people be able to talk about the bad and the ugly? Should these types be swept under the rug so people can't learn????

    @MFeld said:
    This is exactly one of the reasons this thread blows for me:

    “Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.”

    Because there’s not a rule posted which disallows people raving about the good. If you dislike that so much, perhaps you’d like to propose such a rule to the moderators.

    And if your motive was really to help people learn, rather than to bash, you could have easily done so without the bashing,

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

This discussion has been closed.

Categories