Probably haven't had a good CAC thread yet in October... Needed this one before the month ended...😜
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I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Coin is cleaned - too many hairlines across the cheek. Ignoring that, it’s a “C” level F12. Pre-1900 weak strike - can’t compare it to a 1914 photo grade. Would help to post the reverse…
Coin is cleaned - too many hairlines across the cheek. Ignoring that, it’s a “C” level F12. Pre-1900 weak strike - can’t compare it to a 1914 photo grade. Would help to post the reverse…
@pmh1nic said:
I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.
PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?
I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
OMG! There are just some things you can't photoshop! I will also say I think that is an honest photo and would give you odds it looks like the pictures!
@amwldcoin said:
OMG! There are just some things you can't photoshop! I will also say I think that is an honest photo and would give you odds it looks like the pictures!
I am a big fan of CAC but in this case I agree with amwldcoins in that PCGS AND CAC blew it on this slab. That being said, CAC gets it wrong 2% of the time which means they get it right 98% of the time and when you multiply that to PCGS getting it right another 96% of the time you get a lot closer to 100% accuracy.
But there are always exceptions. I am sure even JA would agree. Even he would admit he is not perfect.
Coin is cleaned - too many hairlines across the cheek. Ignoring that, it’s a “C” level F12. Pre-1900 weak strike - can’t compare it to a 1914 photo grade. Would help to post the reverse…
I think it just squeaks by as a 12. Detail on eagle’s neck, wings, tail feathers is borderline VG10. I have several VG10s with noticeably more detail.
I’m perfectly comfortable disagreeing with CAC on this one but I can see PCGS 12 (barely).
Don’t feel I really need to see this in hand to reject paying CAC premium though.
@pmh1nic said:
I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.
PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?
I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.
Ok- you think you don't need to see a coin in hand to accurately grade it. Got it.
In this case no, I don't need to see the coin in hand. Got it?
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@pmh1nic said:
I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.
PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?
I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.
Ok- you think you don't need to see a coin in hand to accurately grade it. Got it.
In this case no, I don't need to see the coin in hand. Got it?
Pavlovian contrarians rarely get it...
But who is the Pavlovian contrarian? The anti-CACer?
This is yet another case of 2 pro grading teams having viewed the coin in hand and agreed on a grade being attacked by people who have only seen a picture. That seems more like the reflexive contrarian position than the people who said that it looks like the photograde image.
Every commercial enterprise has inconsistencies. Some more than others. In this marketplace it has been my experience that CAC is rarely inconsistent, especially compared to the major market makers, stakeholders, TPGs and commercial buyers and sellers.
So to those who specifically call out CAC it evokes a very emotional bias. In any case the marketplace will determine, especially here.
If people can rave about the good, why shouldn't people be able to talk about the bad and the ugly? Should these types be swept under the rug so people can't learn????
@MFeld said:
This is exactly one of the reasons this thread blows for me:
“Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.”
@amwldcoin said:
If people can rave about the good, why shouldn't people be able to talk about the bad and the ugly? Should these types be swept under the rug so people can't learn????
@MFeld said:
This is exactly one of the reasons this thread blows for me:
“Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.”
Because there’s not a rule posted which disallows people raving about the good. If you dislike that so much, perhaps you’d like to propose such a rule to the moderators.
And if your motive was really to help people learn, rather than to bash, you could have easily done so without the bashing,
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
This is one that CAC blows blew it to me
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Because they put stickers on slabs?
I think he just wants the thread closed down.
Not starting it wouldn't have worked for that?
That's an F12 these days according to me, CAC and here's the PCGS photograde picture
Did you expect gold? 🤔
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Doesn't garner the same attention or sense of satisfaction?
I checked the PCGS photograde pictures and this is what they say:
I don't see VG10 or F15, but then, that's just me.
I agree, as above. Maybe we're misinterpreting the OP.
F-12 isn't what it used to be.
Wouldn't you have to know what point he's trying to make in order to misinterpret it?
CAC is telling the OP what he already knows? That's why it blows?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I don't think so. We think he's objecting to the sticker. Maybe that's our misinterpretation.
Maybe it's the location of the sticker. He could be left- handed.
Gen 4.4, 2005-2011
Collector, occasional seller
I don't think anybody is obligated to agree with CAC. Are they?
The only obligation is to complain about CAC decisions that you don't agree with. Lol
I wonder why he's not objecting to PCGS as well. It's not like CAC did anything but affirm the PCGS grade.
I'll happily pay you VG money if you think it's overgraded.
So do you think that is an A or B coin? I'm sorry...that's a F to me that shouldn't be in a problem free holder!
I think that a B F12 in the current market
Probably haven't had a good CAC thread yet in October... Needed this one before the month ended...😜
You're grading from the picture you posted?
edited to add... it seems to have been taken to best represent the paper insert and CAC sticker. The coin itself? Not so much.
Well! you won't sell that coin to me or any of my customers!
I think the OP is questioning the idea that the coin is solid for the grade. In my opinion it's borderline on the low side.
Of course...that picture says all I need to see.
and cleaned!
PCGS and CAC have seen the coin in hand. Have you? Or the OP?
Coin is cleaned - too many hairlines across the cheek. Ignoring that, it’s a “C” level F12. Pre-1900 weak strike - can’t compare it to a 1914 photo grade. Would help to post the reverse…
Here ya go!
I don't need to. The lack of detail is evident in the photograph.
What is it about this coin that offends you so much?
Collector, occasional seller
Total lack of originality! Do I really need to tell you that?????
Ok- you think you don't need to see a coin in hand to accurately grade it. Got it.
OMG! There are just some things you can't photoshop! I will also say I think that is an honest photo and would give you odds it looks like the pictures!
Not according to PCGS photograde.
Ok.
I am a big fan of CAC but in this case I agree with amwldcoins in that PCGS AND CAC blew it on this slab. That being said, CAC gets it wrong 2% of the time which means they get it right 98% of the time and when you multiply that to PCGS getting it right another 96% of the time you get a lot closer to 100% accuracy.
But there are always exceptions. I am sure even JA would agree. Even he would admit he is not perfect.
I think it just squeaks by as a 12. Detail on eagle’s neck, wings, tail feathers is borderline VG10. I have several VG10s with noticeably more detail.
I’m perfectly comfortable disagreeing with CAC on this one but I can see PCGS 12 (barely).
Don’t feel I really need to see this in hand to reject paying CAC premium though.
That's a DANSCO 7070 typeset FN12 yet I agree it isn't a PCGS/CAC FN12...
peacockcoins
This /\
And it's not like the coin is high dollar in the first place and... nobody's perfect.
Better images here: Oops bad link.
Here it is: https://coins.ha.com/itm/barber-half-dollars/1896-s-50c-fine-12-pcgs-cac-pcgs-population-9-108-ngc-census-4-55-mintage-1-140-948-numismedia-wsl-price-for-pr/a/1145-9832.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0
In this case no, I don't need to see the coin in hand. Got it?
Not a coin I would buy for problem-free Fine money.
Pavlovian contrarians rarely get it...
Yeah, polished/cleaned and recolored.
How many more disagrees do you have versus how many agrees?
But who is the Pavlovian contrarian? The anti-CACer?
This is yet another case of 2 pro grading teams having viewed the coin in hand and agreed on a grade being attacked by people who have only seen a picture. That seems more like the reflexive contrarian position than the people who said that it looks like the photograde image.
Every commercial enterprise has inconsistencies. Some more than others. In this marketplace it has been my experience that CAC is rarely inconsistent, especially compared to the major market makers, stakeholders, TPGs and commercial buyers and sellers.
So to those who specifically call out CAC it evokes a very emotional bias. In any case the marketplace will determine, especially here.
This is exactly one of the reasons this thread blows for me:
“Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not a fan.
If people can rave about the good, why shouldn't people be able to talk about the bad and the ugly? Should these types be swept under the rug so people can't learn????
Because there’s not a rule posted which disallows people raving about the good. If you dislike that so much, perhaps you’d like to propose such a rule to the moderators.
And if your motive was really to help people learn, rather than to bash, you could have easily done so without the bashing,
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.