No such thing as a bad 20$ gold piece. Nice and welcome. Always double check a slabs grade against others like it. Not that most TPG grades are off (the opposite really) but many of the best coins get taken off the market and the auctions sometimes are inundated with the same coins over and over again for little reasons. Those are the ones you want to watch out for.
@WAYNEAS said:
Bottom line. Are you happy with it?
Wayne
Honestly, I really want one an ms64 or 65 liberty but they’re so expensive for a scarce year. I could always buy a common date but I also like the rarity of a low mintage years. My st gaudens is ms66 and I’m happy with that one. I’ll probably look to sell this one down the line, I’m just gonna hold onto It until I find a better example. I’m pretty sure I cant return this one since I got it on ebay. I’ll either throw it back on there or list it on gc
While I am not that good at grading, I have been looking for an affordable type 1 double eagle for awhile. There are many many coins that I have seen in the Au50-58 range that are very baggy and marked/ nicked. I think that is how this specific type of coin looks versus a type 2 or type 3 which may look cleaner. From the pics, your coin seems well within what I have seen for 55-58 grades. That said, in hand it may not have the eye appeal that you were looking for. Fairly graded (or better said reasonably graded)…yes. Strong for grade or very eye appealing for the grade/type…there are better.
After careful consideration, I've decided that this coin is not optimal for what I want as a my type 1 Liberty. I listed it on eBay and I already have an offer for 450 more than what I've paid, which will get eaten up by fees but I will not lose money. I'm probably going to accept it. Thank you to everyone who contributed!
It certainly looks better than this NGC AU55 CAC that sold recently.
IMO, the 55 is nicer…original skin.
Buying and Selling coins for 54 years, 700+ shows in last 20 years, and boy am I tired.
Purchased and Trademarked the Mohawk Valley Hoard
Originated the Rochester (NY) Area Coin Expo
I didn’t necessarily disagree with the grade, but I want to build a pcgs registry set of pre 33 Gold. First thing I need is a nice example of all the double eagles and I think it could have been likely that the coin graded 55 If I tried to cross over. I just sold it for 500 more than I bought it for so I actually made a couple dollars after paying eBay fees. I don’t like the rim nicks and I think there’s better 58s on the market
Given the number of bag marks, I'd be more inclined toward AU-55 or even 53. Luster makes up for other sins with a lot of people.
I don't like bag marks, so that makes my grades seem low. To me they do pull the grade down.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Nice original looking coin and certified before the shipwreck coins hit the market. And an "Eagle collection" $20 so probably hand picked. I think Brett Bogus was selecting them for someone with deep pockets, correct me if I'm wrong.
@logger7 said:
Nice original looking coin and certified before the shipwreck coins hit the market. And an "Eagle collection" $20 so probably hand picked. I think Brett Bogus was selecting them for someone with deep pockets, correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes that is who did the set. I recall seeing it displayed at a show and seems like it was used for marketing in ads for a while. It was auctioned in January 2002 by Heritage. Seems like some went for a lot less than values mentioned in ads.
If only they could have waited a few years as many of the rare dates tripled in price or even more soon after. It contained the 1856-O NGC Specimen-63 $20 (now PCGS SP-63) which brought $310,500. Just 7 years later it auctioned for over $1.4 million.
@logger7 said:
Nice original looking coin and certified before the shipwreck coins hit the market. And an "Eagle collection" $20 so probably hand picked. I think Brett Bogus was selecting them for someone with deep pockets, correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes that is who did the set. I recall seeing it displayed at a show and seems like it was used for marketing in ads for a while. It was auctioned in January 2002 by Heritage. Seems like some went for a lot less than values mentioned in ads.
Wow, that’s interesting that you found it sold 20 years ago. Nice work! It looks a lot better in heritage photos!
This discussion has literally nothing to do with TPG and more to do with what happens to no motto gold coins in an effort to maximize the grade. The 55 that was pictured in this thread is the superior coin to that posted by the OP. Having said that, it plays directly into the subjective nature of grading and how TPG treats original surfaces and those surfaces that have been enhanced to bring out reflectivity that is a significant component associated with lustre that otherwise is somewhat muted by what I would consider original skin and surfaces that simply have not been impaired by efforts to enhance die flow lines by reducing the build up of what exists naturally on a coin that has age.
In this instance, NO MOTTO GOLD is a minimum of155 years in age. We should be thrilled and rejoice to find an example of the 1858-s in 55 with original skin as pictured in this thread. Instead, that does not seem to be enough so we have to turn to the OP coin and ask why it was enhanced. And at this point we turn full circle back to whether the OP coin was over graded. And while it might be a 58... and I am not disputing the NGC grade or whether PCGS would graded it any differently... it was graded 58 and it came at a significant cost as the coin was stripped of its originality... its history and what made the coin what it should be. And that was sacrificed to get the coin in a higher graded by enhancing reflectivity instead of acknowledging die flow lines and it is the presence of the die flow lines that create reflectivity. So this remains the unresolved problem grading NO MOTTO GOLD. And because there has be no plan to combat the slaughter of original gold is why I no longer collect it.
Feel free to disagree... in looking at what has been graded, including the examples included in this thread, the evidence clearly supports one side and not the other.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Comments
Bottom line. Are you happy with it?
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
No such thing as a bad 20$ gold piece. Nice and welcome. Always double check a slabs grade against others like it. Not that most TPG grades are off (the opposite really) but many of the best coins get taken off the market and the auctions sometimes are inundated with the same coins over and over again for little reasons. Those are the ones you want to watch out for.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Honestly, I really want one an ms64 or 65 liberty but they’re so expensive for a scarce year. I could always buy a common date but I also like the rarity of a low mintage years. My st gaudens is ms66 and I’m happy with that one. I’ll probably look to sell this one down the line, I’m just gonna hold onto It until I find a better example. I’m pretty sure I cant return this one since I got it on ebay. I’ll either throw it back on there or list it on gc
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
While I am not that good at grading, I have been looking for an affordable type 1 double eagle for awhile. There are many many coins that I have seen in the Au50-58 range that are very baggy and marked/ nicked. I think that is how this specific type of coin looks versus a type 2 or type 3 which may look cleaner. From the pics, your coin seems well within what I have seen for 55-58 grades. That said, in hand it may not have the eye appeal that you were looking for. Fairly graded (or better said reasonably graded)…yes. Strong for grade or very eye appealing for the grade/type…there are better.
After careful consideration, I've decided that this coin is not optimal for what I want as a my type 1 Liberty. I listed it on eBay and I already have an offer for 450 more than what I've paid, which will get eaten up by fees but I will not lose money. I'm probably going to accept it. Thank you to everyone who contributed!
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Hoo Hoo Hoo! Take the money and run! Ooh yeah!
IMO, the 55 is nicer…original skin.
Buying and Selling coins for 54 years, 700+ shows in last 20 years, and boy am I tired.
Purchased and Trademarked the Mohawk Valley Hoard
Originated the Rochester (NY) Area Coin Expo
The op NGC58 is a nice coin. I don’t disagree with the grade given by ngc.
I didn’t necessarily disagree with the grade, but I want to build a pcgs registry set of pre 33 Gold. First thing I need is a nice example of all the double eagles and I think it could have been likely that the coin graded 55 If I tried to cross over. I just sold it for 500 more than I bought it for so I actually made a couple dollars after paying eBay fees. I don’t like the rim nicks and I think there’s better 58s on the market
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
The OP's coming looks good for AU58, but it's a bit baggy for my taste...welcome to the Forum!!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Given the number of bag marks, I'd be more inclined toward AU-55 or even 53. Luster makes up for other sins with a lot of people.
I don't like bag marks, so that makes my grades seem low. To me they do pull the grade down.
There was a discussion about 58 vs 60
My belief has always been:
a 60 is an ugly coin, but unc.
A 58 is a great looking coin, with a rub. [that is why I call them AU-63's]
Sorry, Mark.
But in the initial pictures that was butt ugly.
The later ones, not so bad.
BHNC #203
No need to be sorry, Frank.😉 An MS60 coin can be attractive and an AU58 can be ugly. While that’s not the norm, I’ve seen plenty of each.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don't like the grade. But then, I don't like NGC either.
Nice original looking coin and certified before the shipwreck coins hit the market. And an "Eagle collection" $20 so probably hand picked. I think Brett Bogus was selecting them for someone with deep pockets, correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes that is who did the set. I recall seeing it displayed at a show and seems like it was used for marketing in ads for a while. It was auctioned in January 2002 by Heritage. Seems like some went for a lot less than values mentioned in ads.
If only they could have waited a few years as many of the rare dates tripled in price or even more soon after. It contained the 1856-O NGC Specimen-63 $20 (now PCGS SP-63) which brought $310,500. Just 7 years later it auctioned for over $1.4 million.
2002 set auction listing:
https://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?Ns=Lot+No%7c0&Ne=230&N=3183+790+4294966305+4294966257+232+231&ic4=SortBy-071515
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Wow, that’s interesting that you found it sold 20 years ago. Nice work! It looks a lot better in heritage photos!
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
I bought two of the Eagle collection $20 gold coins when they were sold by HA at the FUN show I believe. It was the bottom of the market.
I am sure there are plenty of each, agreed
BHNC #203
This discussion has literally nothing to do with TPG and more to do with what happens to no motto gold coins in an effort to maximize the grade. The 55 that was pictured in this thread is the superior coin to that posted by the OP. Having said that, it plays directly into the subjective nature of grading and how TPG treats original surfaces and those surfaces that have been enhanced to bring out reflectivity that is a significant component associated with lustre that otherwise is somewhat muted by what I would consider original skin and surfaces that simply have not been impaired by efforts to enhance die flow lines by reducing the build up of what exists naturally on a coin that has age.
In this instance, NO MOTTO GOLD is a minimum of155 years in age. We should be thrilled and rejoice to find an example of the 1858-s in 55 with original skin as pictured in this thread. Instead, that does not seem to be enough so we have to turn to the OP coin and ask why it was enhanced. And at this point we turn full circle back to whether the OP coin was over graded. And while it might be a 58... and I am not disputing the NGC grade or whether PCGS would graded it any differently... it was graded 58 and it came at a significant cost as the coin was stripped of its originality... its history and what made the coin what it should be. And that was sacrificed to get the coin in a higher graded by enhancing reflectivity instead of acknowledging die flow lines and it is the presence of the die flow lines that create reflectivity. So this remains the unresolved problem grading NO MOTTO GOLD. And because there has be no plan to combat the slaughter of original gold is why I no longer collect it.
Feel free to disagree... in looking at what has been graded, including the examples included in this thread, the evidence clearly supports one side and not the other.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
You can't grade gold like a silver coin.
All gold coin grades when compared to similar silver coin grades seem overgraded.
Your coin looks OK to me.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)