Hi Everyone, First Post! Overgraded NGC 1858-s $20 Liberty?
DeplorableDan
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Hello all, I'm new to the site. I just recently got back into collecting which I've taken a hiatus from. I recently picked up this 1858-s double eagle in an auction and upon delivery, it looks to me that it may be a little over graded. I'm trying to complete a collection of all the us gold coins and this is a scarce year, but the coin has a significant amount of hits and the rim of the coin shows quite a few marks. The luster is good but I'm generally wondering if these old NGC holders are reliable for pre-1933 gold? I'm considering trying to crossover some of my other coins as well from NGC to PCGS but I'm curious if this is even a candidate for a crossover, because I would definitely select for same grade only. Any thoughts would be much appreciated, Thank you! My apologies if my pictures aren't great either, but id be happy to take more.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Comments
Not my area but seems accurate. Contact marks in the fields a bit heavy. But seems like a decent coin overall.
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I really like the coin 'dude'. I think you're solid as a 58.......
In my opinion it doesn’t pass the old school standards for AU-58 due to the many distracting contact marks. New school those marks wouldn’t be an issue as long as the luster is pretty full and rub/wear is minor. I’m sure others with a better sense of the more up to date grading system will chime in.
Not AU58 by my standards but my standards for gold are more strict that the major TPGs. Too much wear and too many marks to my way of thinking and grading.
Set your own strict standards for grading and don't rely on TPG or sticker company standards.
Your coin looks properly graded based on your pics. What happened to the hologram? The older no-line fatty NGC slabs had a problem with the holograms peeling off when a sticker was removed but I've never seen the later NGC slabs have this problem.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I think it would be a 55 with PCGS personally. But keep in mind NGC has their own standards guidelines that largely match, but not exactly match, PCGS and ANA. It may be accurate by their standards.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
au 58 or maybe 55 because of the nicks
Young Numismatist
Welcome to the forum!
Nice coin!
NGC AU-58
PCGS AU-55
That's the same observation I made, the seller said it just peeled off, but when i got the coin I also noticed that the slab seam looked a little strange.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
I’d like it better in a 55 holder. As is, it will remain forever bean less.
@DeplorableDan .... Welcome aboard. Based on your pictures, I would be inclined to grade this as AU55. That being said, pictures can be notoriously misleading. If you want it in a PCGS holder and can tolerate a downgrade, than submit it. Cheers, RickO
That's the way the seams looks on that generation of NGC slabs. I don't think someone switched coins on you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
yea even though it looked janky, I highly doubted that someone would go through the trouble to switch out an 58 for a 55 for minimal return
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
I have some early double eagles in PCGS AU58 slabs that are just as heavily bag marked. Double eagles get bag marks very easily since they are big and gold is a relatively soft metal.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
From what I can see, it looks OK as an AU58.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Always seemed to me that gold coins are graded with a different standard. I seem to under grade them all. I think that there is a more lenient tendency for gold coins. At least you have a 58-58.
i like it as a 55, i wouldnt try to cross it
I was always taught that wear and some luster was the important requirements for an AU58 grade, not bag marks and hits. Obviously major hits creating damage are important in limiting a graded coin to a details coin.
Jim
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That seam looks normal to me. You're getting paranoid. If they cracked the slab, the hologram wouldn't need to have been removed.
I like it better as a 55. But I wouldn't consider it a major reach at 58.
Looks 58, just a bit scruffy. If you like the coin, keep it and don’t worry about it. If you don’t, return or sell and buy something that makes you happier!
No way is that coin a 58.
Would you pay 58 money for that coin, I don't think so!
Too baggy for my tastes.
58 wear, but pretty baggy. As @PerryHall said big gold coins tend to pick up bag marks, and that one has been around for a long time.
I think it looks graded properly. A cool coin!
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Welcome to the forums.
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Welcome!
It's hard to say from those photos, I think your lighting might be a bit harsh. I like to look through auction photos when I have questions like this.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Auction-Archive/US-Coin-Prices/21/Gold-Double-Eagles/81/Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagles/8925/1858-S-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle?af_c_sorthigh=true&af_c_sortdate=false&af_c_pcgs=true&af_c_ngc=true&af_c_pmg=true&af_c_anacs=true&af_c_other=true&af_c_cac=true&af_c_noncac=true&af_c_plus=true&af_c_nonplus=true&af_c_ungraded=false&af_c_busi_strike=true&af_c_spec_proof=true&af_s_yearfrom=&af_s_yearto=&af_s_keywords=&af_gd_min=1&af_gd_max=70&zoomgrade=58#58
It certainly looks better than this NGC AU55 CAC that sold recently.
I'm liking it better if it was graded a 55 also.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I definitely posted harsh photos, I wanted unadulterated opinions. But i agree that auction photos would be much different. I know its not a stellar coin but it is a scarce date and i got it for what i believe to be a reasonable price. if I find a better one ill just sell this one. here is a picture with "auction lighting"
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Oh yeah, that looks much better. Although this picture does highlight the rim issues you had mentioned.
OK with 58 but I wouldn’t buy it beat up and ugly. Good example why I don’t care for 58’s
Here’s my 55 to also compare:
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I believe that if the identical coin were posted in a PCGS holder of the same grade, it would meet with a much more favorable reception.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Hard to argue with that.
It would not be a PCGS 58.
Another grading challenge... did NGC do any better with this one at AU58?
Overexposed photos. Not good for grading as they tend to diminish or hide small defects.
And if it had CAC...
Do you guys even look at the "coin" anymore? Geez!!!
Not my photos- sorry.
That’s your opinion. Some of us disagree with you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark, would You personally pay AU58 money for that coin?
Would you look for a better example?
Would you pay AU55 Money for that coin or is that still too much?
I would pay 55 money for that coin.
I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested that coin would be less than a 55, except possibly you.
If this is (actually) a "PCGS" AU55 then no coin dealer should be paying AU 55 money, they would need to pay less.
Yes, I’d pay AU58 money for the coin, but I don’t see the relevance. On the other hand, if a client asked me to assess it, I’d say that it looked accurately graded, but was just an ordinary looking example. Of course, I say that about lots of coins which many people would be quite happy to own.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would pay dealer 55 money. How does that change anything?
Admittedly, I know absolutely nothing about this series.
IMO, An AU58 coin should look very nice, that coin does not.
I'm out.
Well, there's that old saying that "a 58 is a 65 with a rub". But that's really an urban legend. There's a range of 58s.
Welcome to the forum. If you have a question you'll get some answers here. I'm in the "It's fairly graded" camp on yours.
I'd be willing to bet that it looks better in hand.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.