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Early Gold GTG (REVEALED!!!….in comment)

ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 31, 2021 6:01PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Guess the Grade and provide rationale




Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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    LiquidatedLiquidated Posts: 365 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2022 11:36AM

    Deleted…

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    pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great looking coin. I have owning one on my bucket list. I have no experience grading this series.

    Strike looks great. Wear is tough for me to judge in a photo. I’m going with 63 and maybe CAC. Congratulations and thanks for sharing.

    Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
    $5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
    CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572

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    TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ll say the slab is AU 58. The darker areas speak to lost luster right about where I would expect luster to start going. Very nice strike. It’s not a series I see enough to be super confident in so I’m gauging from other gold series.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do not detect any remaining luster, dings on the cheek and neck.... MS 63..... Nice coin though. Cheers, RickO

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,679 ✭✭✭✭✭

    62 CAC

    Latin American Collection

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:
    I’ll say the slab is AU 58. The darker areas speak to lost luster right about where I would expect luster to start going. Very nice strike. It’s not a series I see enough to be super confident in so I’m gauging from other gold series.

    Agree with the AU58 grade for the reasons cited. Very nice coin with clean surfaces. B)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    LazybonesLazybones Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU-ish judging by bad pictures. It looks like a scan rather than a photo. Scans never do a coin justice.

    USAF (Ret) The purpose of Bourbon is to make you feel like you should feel WITHOUT Bourbon. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.

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    breakdownbreakdown Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

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    CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS63, shot 64. Don't see any overt wear, although the cheek and other areas appear slightly discolored. Hard to gauge luster from those photos. Nice coin overall.

    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 28, 2021 7:15AM

    Ms63 cac, it’s all about the cheek knocking it back from gem (65). Old timers might peg it a 62 but that undersells the total coin

    11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set

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    earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    64+ CAC

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭

    64 and nice.

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    JJMJJM Posts: 8,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    62 CAC

    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37,Waverly, justindan
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    ashelandasheland Posts: 24,426 ✭✭✭✭✭

    62 crossed my mind.

    My YouTube Channel

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    63 shot 64

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    kazkaz Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll guess 58 due to small amount of high point rub.

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    amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd say 58 but it wouldn't surprise me if it was in a 62 holder. Dang nice coin with great skin!

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anacs 63

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU-58 in an MS-62 or 63 holder.

    It has what some old time collectors called “envelope friction” on the highest points. Gold is soft and easily rubbed during storage in an envelope and packing in the old 2X2 boxes.

    I have an 1806 $5 gold I bought in 1982 with a similar look. I had it graded by PCGS 20 years ago, it’s in an AU-50 holder. The design detail is all there but the high points are slightly dulled. It was graded AU-50 in the Auction ‘82 sale which is where I purchased it.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,491 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m think solid MS-63 with a shot at 64. As far as AU I don’t see any wear and I think the TPG’s are more forgiving of cabinets friction on early gold. Very nice coin.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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    JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 4,059 ✭✭✭✭✭

    New

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    CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lovely, original coin... and interesting in that the obverse looks fully MS - MS63 or better, with some high point friction/wear on the reverse that probably pulls the overall grade down to MS62. Whatever the grade, it's a very nice looking example of early gold.

    Got Crust....y gold?
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    KliaoKliao Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭✭✭

    62 or 63. Really nice coin.

    Collector
    Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU63.

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 28, 2021 2:04PM

    1) Do you own the coin pictured?
    2) Did you coat the lens with Vaseline before you took the obverse image and, if so.....

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:
    1) Do you own the coin pictured?
    2) Did you coat the lens with Vaseline before you took the obverse image and, if so.....

    Dealer images. I’ll have the coin in hand on Monday and will post in hand photos and grade reveal at that time.

    As someone stated in my last GTG….”Early Gold gets breaks”. The AU58 to MS lines are very blurred in early gold. I have AU coins that seem to be nicer and have less wear then some of my MS examples and all are CAC.

    Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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    PickwickjrPickwickjr Posts: 558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS62 cac

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    NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 11,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS62 from the images. 63 if it shows more luster in person

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    boiler78boiler78 Posts: 3,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS 64

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 28, 2021 6:58PM

    All things considered, including the crappy less-than-optimal imagery. Is it the lines that are blurred or just your photos?

    NGC AU55 gold CAC >:)

    edited to add: Hi Mark ;)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2021 11:39AM

    64

    edited to say "nice coin!"

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    PedzolaPedzola Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pics are rough but based on what I can see / interpret; 62 CAC.

    Instagram

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    Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2021 7:40AM

    64 no CAC. I think it probably shows better in person. Guessing any wear is ‘cabinet friction’ and forgiven due to early date, great eye appeal and minimal hits.

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    WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Guess the Grade and provide rationale

    "Guess the Grade" :

    Guessing anywhere from AU-58 to MS-64, appears to me to be more likely 62 or 63

    "and provide rationale" :

    Because the photos are not good enough for me to give any better guess than that.

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree with general consensus 62

    Lovely original coin with tons of frosty luster, moat most aren't used to seeing this type in here between "dirty original AU" and gem gaga 64s and 65s.

    High point friction from being a collector coin for a coupla centuries, a few handling marks in the fields that might be the most modest form of test marks/graffiti to the picayune on the sidelines net very choice 62ish, I'd be surprised at more than a point higher or lower

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    mark_dakmark_dak Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    AU-58 in an MS-62 or 63 holder.

    It has what some old time collectors called “envelope friction” on the highest points. Gold is soft and easily rubbed during storage in an envelope and packing in the old 2X2 boxes.

    I have an 1806 $5 gold I bought in 1982 with a similar look. I had it graded by PCGS 20 years ago, it’s in an AU-50 holder. The design detail is all there but the high points are slightly dulled. It was graded AU-50 in the Auction ‘82 sale which is where I purchased it.

    I guess I'm seeing the same thing here. I'll go MS60 although I haven't had enough experience to take my guess seriously. Coin detail looks complete but very muted. Maybe it's the pictures, I only see minimal surface abrasion where I might have expected to see more based on coin detail. I'm wondering if some is hidden by the photography.

    I am curious, did you have more info and pictures before the purchase or did you buy on the 4 given photos?

    That being said, I'd love to be the owner - hopefully you did well!

    Mark

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    ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mark_dak said:

    @BillJones said:
    AU-58 in an MS-62 or 63 holder.

    It has what some old time collectors called “envelope friction” on the highest points. Gold is soft and easily rubbed during storage in an envelope and packing in the old 2X2 boxes.

    I have an 1806 $5 gold I bought in 1982 with a similar look. I had it graded by PCGS 20 years ago, it’s in an AU-50 holder. The design detail is all there but the high points are slightly dulled. It was graded AU-50 in the Auction ‘82 sale which is where I purchased it.

    I guess I'm seeing the same thing here. I'll go MS60 although I haven't had enough experience to take my guess seriously. Coin detail looks complete but very muted. Maybe it's the pictures, I only see minimal surface abrasion where I might have expected to see more based on coin detail. I'm wondering if some is hidden by the photography.

    I am curious, did you have more info and pictures before the purchase or did you buy on the 4 given photos?

    That being said, I'd love to be the owner - hopefully you did well!

    Mark

    I’m getting it in hand tomorrow so I’ll have some better pics in the holder at that time. It’s on memo. Tough to buy coins in the 5 figures on OK images.

    Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mark_dak said:

    @BillJones said:
    AU-58 in an MS-62 or 63 holder.

    It has what some old time collectors called “envelope friction” on the highest points. Gold is soft and easily rubbed during storage in an envelope and packing in the old 2X2 boxes.

    I have an 1806 $5 gold I bought in 1982 with a similar look. I had it graded by PCGS 20 years ago, it’s in an AU-50 holder. The design detail is all there but the high points are slightly dulled. It was graded AU-50 in the Auction ‘82 sale which is where I purchased it.

    I guess I'm seeing the same thing here. I'll go MS60 although I haven't had enough experience to take my guess seriously. Coin detail looks complete but very muted. Maybe it's the pictures, I only see minimal surface abrasion where I might have expected to see more based on coin detail. I'm wondering if some is hidden by the photography.

    I am curious, did you have more info and pictures before the purchase or did you buy on the 4 given photos?

    That being said, I'd love to be the owner - hopefully you did well!

    Mark

    I saw the coin before the sale and bought it as a floor bidder.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 10,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65 CAC
    There is no rationale for how my brain works. Other than to say the luster is obvious in the shadowing and yours looks better than the 64 in Coin Facts.

    I like it

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    pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice gold.

    Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
    $5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
    CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572

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    skier07skier07 Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lovely coin and congrats!

    Any idea if the coin had made a trip to PCGS or CAC?

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    Wahoo554Wahoo554 Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great coin! I really like the color.

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,679 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is your assessment of the coin now that it is in hand? Solid 64, 64-, or something lesser?

    Latin American Collection

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    ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    What is your assessment of the coin now that it is in hand? Solid 64, 64-, or something lesser?

    Top notch surface quality and originality. Unfortunately not “bright” enough for 64 by today’s standards I believe. I think it would be a 63-63+ CAC. It very well could CAC as is. It was a very difficult coin to evaluate. Something I could see a dealer trying to conserve into a higher grade or just make brighter.

    Mint state coins this original are rare and it was a pleasant surprise.

    Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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    pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Proofmorgan said:

    @Boosibri said:
    What is your assessment of the coin now that it is in hand? Solid 64, 64-, or something lesser?

    Top notch surface quality and originality. Unfortunately not “bright” enough for 64 by today’s standards I believe. I think it would be a 63-63+ CAC. It very well could CAC as is. It was a very difficult coin to evaluate. Something I could see a dealer trying to conserve into a higher grade or just make brighter.

    Mint state coins this original are rare and it was a pleasant surprise.

    I agree. That is a keeper.

    Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
    $5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
    CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 24,426 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great coin!

    My YouTube Channel

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    First step is to reholder at NGC to get it out of that scratched no edge holder and hope no rim issues become apparent. Given the age of the holder and the fact that it doesn't appear net graded, doubtful anything is there.

    If it's only the scratches on the holder that are bothering you, they're easy enough to fix.

    You can spend a lot of money on the re-holder, re-grade, crossover game. At the end, it's still the same coin.

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2021 4:33PM

    Not my fav Generation of NGC in terms of standards. I would be shocked if JA hasn’t passed on it as a 64. It’s a great coin that might be in a bit of a tomb. I don’t know the price spreads that well in that neighborhood but if you are paying strong 64 money it might not be the right move no matter the quality of the core coin. You can over pay for quality

    11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set

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