United States Mint Sales Exceed Product Limits...
cagcrisp
Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭✭✭
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 264
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,523
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
2
Comments
Product limit for the 1/2 oz was 2,000
Product limit for the 1/10 oz. was 10,000
Product limit for the 4-coin set was 10,250
Product limit for the 1 oz. ASE (W) was 300,000
My Guess is that the Mint kept the early morning feeding window open too long for the above items...
That shouldn't happen if their inventory control system works at all.
seems like never a accurate or logical sale. rinse and repeat
I think it more likely that those numbers include dealer pre-sales and the product limit excludes dealer pre-sales. Notice they are all about 10% high.
It did not happen on the 1 oz. Type 2 AGE and did not happen on the 1/4 oz. Type 2 AGE. I know for a fact that the window for the 1/2 oz. Type 2 AGE was open one day for at least 8 minutes last week
But that shouldn't matter. Any inventory system, if functioning correctly, knows how many coins are available and only allows you to purchase them until they hit zero. The Mint doesn't turn on the red button at 7:30 am the Mint updates the inventory numbers in the system which makes the red button turn on.
It is odd, however, if that they exceeded the mintage limit also. In the case of the Type 1 ASEs. The dealer pre-sales were in the mintage limit
Well, they could petition Congress to increase the limits... Or, maybe, there will be a lot of disappointed buyers who 'think' they got one. My guess is the latter. Cheers, RickO
Actually, they have violated the limits intentionally already by 5000 units. So, there won't be disappointed buyers, unless the buyers are upset that the coins are less rare.
Are the OP numbers mintage totals?
If they are coin sales numbers (mintage), they will exceed the product limits when the coin is being released in multiple products each with their own specific packaging. As you know many coins are released in multiple products And will show a mintage limit that is higher than the specific product limit.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Along the same lines ...
21XK seemingly exceed the published "Mintage Limit" on the 2021 T1 & T2 1/10 oz. Proof-W AGE coins.
I might have missed it. Did they ever explain this?
Edited: Please ignore the question. @jmlanzaf addressed the 5,000 units associated with 21XK earlier in the thread, I just missed it.
Also, keep in mind that final, total mintage numbers include only coins actually sold. If the coin undersells and the remainders are pulled from inventory and let's say melted or returned to the mint due to damage, the final mintage total will differ from the originally published mintage limit.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Those are the sales numbers.
Those are the sales numbers.
Sales numbers are the current mintage number. It will normally at some point (as sales grow) exceed the product limit of any one of the individual products that contain the coin.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
As far as I know sales have only exceeded the product limit on one offering in modern history.
Sales for the 2014 Baseball Hall of Fame Gold coins exceeded the product limit.
That is the only example that I know where a Mint Product Limit has been exceeded...
Untrue.
Until this year, when everything exceeds the limit...
My thoughts exactly.
And watch out for the dreaded "your order has been canceled."
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
That is false statement...
Mintage sales for a specific product should never exceed a product limit.
Never...
The mint does not ever release sales number for a specfic > @cagcrisp said:
Then let me clarify:
Sales numbers for the product are the current mintage number for the product the coin appears in. They are not the limit, they are the sales to date. The total mintage of the coin to include all of the products it appears in It will normally at some point (as sales grow) exceed the product limit of any one of the individual products that contain the coin.
Final coin mintage includes all of its appearances in different products.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Any sales exceeding the published product limit would be canceled. This has happened numerous times. Any mintage beyond the limit should be destroyed.
That is not the numbers we're talking about.
They can't unless they destroy all 5000 two coin sets.
No, when the mint oversells mintage they normally put the overage on backorder, or simply cancel those sales.
The mint only exceeds product limits if it delivers more than the product limit to buyers. Mintage limit includes all products that contain the coin which means it is normal for total mintage of the coin to exceed it's limit in individual products.
The source of the OP's sales data in the first post would be helpful, only because it may reveal if the totals are for the coin itself or for individual products.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 264
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,523
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
Product limit for the 1/2 oz was 2,000
Product limit for the 1/10 oz. was 10,000
Product limit for the 4-coin set was 10,250
Product limit for the 1 oz. ASE (W) was 300,000> @derryb said:
I do Not understand what is so hard for you to understand. This ENTIRE thread is about "PRODUCT LIMITS".
It has NOTHING to do with Mintage Limits.
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 264
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,523
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
Product limit for the 1/2 oz was 2,000
Product limit for the 1/10 oz. was 10,000
Product limit for the 4-coin set was 10,250
Product limit for the 1 oz. ASE (W) was 300,000
Product limit. Product limit. Product limit. Product limit...
The Title of the Thread:
"United States Mint Sales Exceed Product Limits..."
they have 1 right
You're right. But you might as well give up trying to explain it.
this calls for a numismedia investigative report
Then what are the numbers in your first post and where do they come from? I understand that you are comparing them to published product limits shown in your second post, but it is not clear if you are comparing apples (product limit) to oranges (mintage limit), thus my discussion about product vs. mintage. Simply provide a link to the first post data to support you over production claim.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Notice ALL the "+ amounts take each product over the Product Limit.
Smells like an accounting variance that will correct.
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 264
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,523
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
Loves me some shiny!
.
https://www.usmint.gov/about/production-sales-figures/cumulative-sales
they also got the S-Proofs right too
wonder how they screwed up the ASE-W and AGE-2 so badly> @MetroD said:
.
.
the numbers in the OP are from the above link.
you can confirm those numbers with those in the graphic I posted. I posted the graphic due to all the doubt and confusion.
the product limits have been exceeded. forget the mintage limits
Thank you. Much clearer that they in fact exceeded some production limits based on their current sales of those products. Sorry for confusing your thread with mintage.
Remains to be seen if they will deliver that excess or "backorder/cancel" it. Boils down to if their sales figures are the same as shipped figures. Do they consider it a "sale" before or after shipment? I suspect sales are simply current orders, not necessarily filled orders. Watching the mint sales numbers should soon reveal the answer.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
they've one-sided cancelled orders in the past. it could happen again.
I just wonder if the past was on this scale
There were 61,284 2014 Gold Baseball Hall of Fame coins sold Originally with a Product Limit of 50,000…
These are the product limit issues mentioned:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 245 edited from above for 2,000 product limit
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,430 edited from above for 10,250 product limit
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
But the half ounce as an example states this:
So adding the half ounce obviously in the 4-coin set, and the half ounce individual ones already shown above in the "adj. Net demand" & "Sales Report dated" info, which is nebulous, 14,925 are indicated against a MINTAGE limit of 12,250.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
The PCGS price guide show a final mintage of 17,674 for the baseball gold business strike and a final mintage of 32,428 for the proof.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/us-mint-oversells-gold-baseball-commemoratives.html
Sales are just that, sales. Otherwise you would have "zero" for the Morgans and Peace and be well below the threshold on the posted numbers due to the backorders.
Yup.
And try it with the tenth ounce. LOL. They have those extra 5,000 in the 2 coin set.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Thanks for the share. Didn't realize they had sold and shipped these over the limit.
One and only time...until 2021
the BB HoF coins had a statutory limit
these are a self-imposed limit