All kidding aside, this is a real problem for the Mint. If they fail to adhere to their announced limits, who will trust them in the future? Imagine if you pay a premium for a "limited edition" just to find out that it is an unlimited edition?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
All kidding aside, this is a real problem for the Mint. If they fail to adhere to their announced limits, who will trust them in the future? Imagine if you pay a premium for a "limited edition" just to find out that it is an unlimited edition?
Agree completely. The only reason I ordered another half ounce gold proof was because of the relatively low so-called mintage (not product) limit. Based on the numbers indicated on the Mint site this coin has "sales" of 21% over the limit. That is a significant apparent misrepresentation.
@jmlanzaf said:
All kidding aside, this is a real problem for the Mint. If they fail to adhere to their announced limits, who will trust them in the future? Imagine if you pay a premium for a "limited edition" just to find out that it is an unlimited edition?
Is a class action needed to encourage them to stick to product limits?
Looks Like some of last weeks Exceeding Product Limit sales are being reversed…
w/e 08/15/2021:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 264
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,523
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
w/e 08/22/2021:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,216 (29)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,632 (98)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,635 (45)
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 312,195 (9,696)
Looks Like some of last weeks Exceeding Product Limit sales are being reversed…
w/e 08/15/2021:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 264
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,523
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
w/e 08/22/2021:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,216 (29)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,632 (98)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,635 (45)
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 312,195 (9,696)
Thanks for posting these figures.
Do not know how common it is, but I just encountered a relatively large 'week-over-week' drop (i.e., 2,449 coins, or a 16.8% decrease). Source
My point - this situation requires monitoring as the sales figures are "not be considered final, and are subject to change as audited".
@jmlanzaf said:
A sudden large drop like that is usually due to a large order being canceled. Need more context around the numbers on teh Buffalo. Had they been available to bulk purchasers?
Back in 2017, the Enhanced Uncirculated sets sold out in 30 minutes. The next day there was a 15,000 unit return from a bulk buyer. That triggered a massive number of cancellations for the now "available" set. They ended up going from essentially sold out to 40,000 under the limit. They never got to sell out again, finally creeping up to 215,000 out of a 225,000 maximum mintage.
I believe so. The AGB Proof is part of the "Numismatic Bulk Purchase Program". Link
Thanks for the plausible explanation, and the historic example.
Looks Like some of last weeks Exceeding Product Limit sales are being reversed…
w/e 08/15/2021:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 264
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,523
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
w/e 08/22/2021:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,216 (29)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,632 (98)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,635 (45)
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 312,195 (9,696)
Thanks for posting these figures.
Do not know how common it is, but I just encountered a relatively large 'week-over-week' drop (i.e., 2,449 coins, or a 16.8% decrease).
My point - this situation requires monitoring as the sales figures are "not be considered final, and are subject to change as audited".
It is VERY common for specific coins to have a drop of 16% w/w ONE time in the life of the coins being sold . It is NOT common for a Gold Buffalo or American Gold Eagle. What you referenced for the 2021 Gold Buffalo was the ONLY time it has happened for the Buffalo in 9 years...
@cagcrisp said:
It is VERY common for specific coins to have a drop of 16% w/w ONE time in the life of the coins being sold . It is NOT common for a Gold Buffalo or American Gold Eagle. What you referenced for the 2021 Gold Buffalo was the ONLY time it has happened for the Buffalo in 9 years...
@cagcrisp said:
The 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium had a 20.2% Drop w/w in 2019...
Launch week 09/15/2019 16,690
W/e 09/22/2019 13,319 Down 3,371 or 20.2%
@jmlanzaf said:
A sudden large drop like that is usually due to a large order being canceled. Need more context around the numbers on teh Buffalo. Had they been available to bulk purchasers?
Back in 2017, the Enhanced Uncirculated sets sold out in 30 minutes. The next day there was a 15,000 unit return from a bulk buyer. That triggered a massive number of cancellations for the now "available" set. They ended up going from essentially sold out to 40,000 under the limit. They never got to sell out again, finally creeping up to 215,000 out of a 225,000 maximum mintage.
I believe so. The AGB Proof is part of the "Numismatic Bulk Purchase Program". Link
Thanks for the plausible explanation, and the historic example.
I should correct myself. It was several days later that the big cancellation happened. I actually already had my sets in hand when it happened. Those sets went from gold to poop almost immediately.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
The 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated Set Launched 08/01/2017 @ $29.95. The set went CU within 7 minutes. The Mint opened sales back up 08/03/2017 after it was reported that one dealer cancelled an order for 20k. Launch week sales were reported @ 217,514 (225,000 mintage). Sales did not go negative until w/e 08/20/2017 when the mint showed 211,273 -12,037...
@cagcrisp said:
The 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated Set Launched 08/01/2017 @ $29.95. The set went CU within 7 minutes. The Mint opened sales back up 08/03/2017 after it was reported that one dealer cancelled an order for 20k. Launch week sales were reported @ 217,514 (225,000 mintage). Sales did not go negative until w/e 08/20/2017 when the mint showed 211,273 -12,037...
Thanks for digging up the specifics. That was a crazy month.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@derryb said:
on the other hand don't some final mintages come in below their limit due to returns?
Thousands of coins come in below their mintage limits. Only 1 coin has come in Above mintage product limit since 2014...
and we only complain about this one missed mintage? LOL
Respectfully, this is not about the one that officially violated. This thread is currently tracking four recent Mint releases that may have exceeded their respective product limits.
The 8/22/21 sales figures are not final. As such, we do not know how this will ultimately 'play out'.
Admittedly, I do not have a long history with Mint reporting. However, other members do. And they seem to consider this situation to be unusual (i.e., sales figures > product limits).
My thought is like everything else at the mint checking stats is similar to checking tracking , it isn’t accurate especially with this and that and backorder and credit card purchases months out. I really don’t think updating the list is high priority plus it’s very fluid with cancellations and returns unknown. Now that being said I need to go! Gotta check my tracking 😂😂😂😂😃
As per the other thread on the two coin designer edition, all the Mintage limits have been increased by 5,000 to account for it now.
As far as the gold type 2 proofs, there is technically no mintage limit on the 4-coin set, but the product limit remains at 10,250. Backordered sets and individual coins are being cancelled, and suspect this will move product numbers a bit closer over time, but a lot of people will be disappointed if they do not get what they were expecting.
@jmlanzaf said:
All kidding aside, this is a real problem for the Mint. If they fail to adhere to their announced limits, who will trust them in the future? Imagine if you pay a premium for a "limited edition" just to find out that it is an unlimited edition?
Is a class action needed to encourage them to stick to product limits?
The Mint appears to have changed the "mintage limit" on the 2021 T1&T2 0.10 oz. Proof AGE coins after they were released for sale.
T1: 16,200 --> 21,200 (+5,000 units, or 30.9%)
T2: 20,250 --> 25,250 (+5,000 units, or 24.7%)
Some people purchased, and paid the associated premium for, what they perceived as a 'limited/exclusive' item. It just retroactively got less 'limited/exclusive'.
Note - I realize that this thread is about "product limits", and my post is about "mintage limits". Notwithstanding, the limits are related (i.e., ∑"Product Limits" = "Mintage Limit"). As such, I hope that my comment is not too far off topic.
The Four Product Limits that were Exceeded are Decreasing…Albeit at a snails pace…
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 311,996 (199)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,214 (2)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,601 (31)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,628 (7)
Comments
You can't really call it a limit when no one stops
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
All kidding aside, this is a real problem for the Mint. If they fail to adhere to their announced limits, who will trust them in the future? Imagine if you pay a premium for a "limited edition" just to find out that it is an unlimited edition?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Agree completely. The only reason I ordered another half ounce gold proof was because of the relatively low so-called mintage (not product) limit. Based on the numbers indicated on the Mint site this coin has "sales" of 21% over the limit. That is a significant apparent misrepresentation.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Is a class action needed to encourage them to stick to product limits?
Looks Like some of last weeks Exceeding Product Limit sales are being reversed…
w/e 08/15/2021:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,245 + 264
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,730 +1,814
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,680 +2,523
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 321,891 + 22,048
w/e 08/22/2021:
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,216 (29)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,632 (98)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,635 (45)
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 312,195 (9,696)
Four more reasons to take a pass on modern mint issues...
Thanks for posting these figures.
Do not know how common it is, but I just encountered a relatively large 'week-over-week' drop (i.e., 2,449 coins, or a 16.8% decrease).
Source
My point - this situation requires monitoring as the sales figures are "not be considered final, and are subject to change as audited".
I believe so. The AGB Proof is part of the "Numismatic Bulk Purchase Program". Link
Thanks for the plausible explanation, and the historic example.
It is VERY common for specific coins to have a drop of 16% w/w ONE time in the life of the coins being sold . It is NOT common for a Gold Buffalo or American Gold Eagle. What you referenced for the 2021 Gold Buffalo was the ONLY time it has happened for the Buffalo in 9 years...
The 2019 Reverse Proof Palladium had a 20.2% Drop w/w in 2019...
Launch week 09/15/2019 16,690
W/e 09/22/2019 13,319 Down 3,371 or 20.2%
Great information. Thanks.
I should correct myself. It was several days later that the big cancellation happened. I actually already had my sets in hand when it happened. Those sets went from gold to poop almost immediately.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
The 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated Set Launched 08/01/2017 @ $29.95. The set went CU within 7 minutes. The Mint opened sales back up 08/03/2017 after it was reported that one dealer cancelled an order for 20k. Launch week sales were reported @ 217,514 (225,000 mintage). Sales did not go negative until w/e 08/20/2017 when the mint showed 211,273 -12,037...
Thanks for digging up the specifics. That was a crazy month.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
on the other hand don't some final mintages come in below their limit due to returns?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Thousands of coins come in below their mintage limits. Only 1 coin has come in Above mintage product limit since 2014...
and we only complain about this one missed mintage? LOL
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Respectfully, this is not about the one that officially violated. This thread is currently tracking four recent Mint releases that may have exceeded their respective product limits.
Source: Sales Figures
The 8/22/21 sales figures are not final. As such, we do not know how this will ultimately 'play out'.
Admittedly, I do not have a long history with Mint reporting. However, other members do. And they seem to consider this situation to be unusual (i.e., sales figures > product limits).
Stay tuned.
My thought is like everything else at the mint checking stats is similar to checking tracking , it isn’t accurate especially with this and that and backorder and credit card purchases months out. I really don’t think updating the list is high priority plus it’s very fluid with cancellations and returns unknown. Now that being said I need to go! Gotta check my tracking 😂😂😂😂😃
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Atypical
As per the other thread on the two coin designer edition, all the Mintage limits have been increased by 5,000 to account for it now.
As far as the gold type 2 proofs, there is technically no mintage limit on the 4-coin set, but the product limit remains at 10,250. Backordered sets and individual coins are being cancelled, and suspect this will move product numbers a bit closer over time, but a lot of people will be disappointed if they do not get what they were expecting.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Exhibit #1
The Mint appears to have changed the "mintage limit" on the 2021 T1&T2 0.10 oz. Proof AGE coins after they were released for sale.
T1: 16,200 --> 21,200 (+5,000 units, or 30.9%)
T2: 20,250 --> 25,250 (+5,000 units, or 24.7%)
Some people purchased, and paid the associated premium for, what they perceived as a 'limited/exclusive' item. It just retroactively got less 'limited/exclusive'.
Note - I realize that this thread is about "product limits", and my post is about "mintage limits". Notwithstanding, the limits are related (i.e., ∑"Product Limits" = "Mintage Limit"). As such, I hope that my comment is not too far off topic.
The Four Product Limits that were Exceeded are Decreasing…Albeit at a snails pace…
2021 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ NEW (W) 311,996 (199)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ NEW 2,214 (2)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ NEW 11,601 (31)
2021 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET NEW 12,628 (7)