! INVESTIGATION !
Kudbegud
Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
Front page of todays Coin World
Could this create actual change? Or be a big waste of time?
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Kudbegud
Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Studying. Yes I see 🧐
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
@Kudbegud
An interesting read. Thanks for sharing.
For anyone that does not have access to the digital edition, the article can be viewed here.
Thank you @MetroD
I was just making several Snipps to get the whole article. Your link is much better.
Great news!
Someone complained to the Inspector General.
I believe the OIG of the Treasury reports directly to Janet Yellen. She is an avid coin collector and did not get the 2 coin designer set she wanted
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
My guess not much will come from it. And I didn’t even need to read the article to come to that conclusion.
Martin
Joking aside, Janet Yellen, the Secretary of the Treasury, presiding over the US Mint is a philatelist and she reported a collection of stamps valued around $50,000 in recent financial disclosures.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Administration looking for additional income by seeing how high they can raise the prices is my WAG.
Don't expect a good outcome. With selling out in minutes..........oh well.
bob
now we will see a household limit of only 1/2.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Good read, thank you. I don't expect a good outcome though, partially because it seems like this is a bit danged if you do, danged if you don't.
This information for the CW article was first posted October 2020. Every year there is an annual report and every year there is a similar investigation. The information CW got the article is a 143 page pdf. Not only is it old news, it’s annual news…
Here is link to the actual 143 page pdf file…
https://www.oversight.gov/report/toig/annual-plan-fiscal-year-2021-office-inspector-general-department-treasury
There are sourcing rules for conflict minerals
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Thanks for the link(s).... Will have to study this at length....got to work today. Cheers, RickO
All I can say is Uhhhh Ohhhhh!
As reported in Coin World, the U.S. Mint has received sustained customer flak for most of calendar year 2021 over the bureau’s handling of the release and sales of multiple limited-edition numismatic products, all of which have sold out within a matter of minutes from sales launch.
Some Mint collector customers also complain about perceived unfairness in connection with a new dealer initiative. For some specific limited-edition products, the Mint has reserved up to 10% of the maximum authorized mintage to be parted out among 18 qualified dealers who comprise the Mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program, or ABPP.
The ABPP dealers can place orders the week before a scheduled public release and pick up that product from the Mint’s contracted order fulfillment center before sale open to the rest of the public.
The ABPP dealers, who pay the Mint a 5% premium over the public retail price, cannot offer their purchases for sale until the public release.
_U.S. Mint officials did not disclose details of the ABPP program until February 2021 when Coin World confirmed its existence with bureau officials.
Since then, Coin World has sought the release of the identities of the 18 ABPP dealers, but so far, U.S. Mint officials refuse to supply that information.
Subsequent to a verbal refusal, Coin World filed a formal Freedom of Information Act request for the release of the information._
The CW article is much ado about nothing. Same things Every Year…
Here is EXACT quotes for the past 4 Annual Plans concerning specific word “Fair” and distribution of numismatic products:
Annual Plan FY 2018: “We plan to determine whether the Mint’s practices adhere to established policies and procedures designed to ensure the broadest and most fair access to limited-production, investment-grade products.”
Annual Plan FY2019: “We plan to determine if the Mint’s practices adhere to established policies and procedures designed to ensure the broadest and most fair access to limited-production, investment grade products”
Annual Plan FY2020: “We plan to determine if the Mint is ensuring the fair and equitable availability of its products to all customers and assess the Mint’s methods for establishing mintage and product limits for certain numismatic products”
Annual Plan FY2021: “We plan to determine if the Mint is ensuring the fair and equitable availability of its products to all customers and assess the Mint’s methods for establishing mintage and product limits for certain numismatic products.”
It’s a waste of money if you’re not going to fix the problem.
Auction off the limited edition pieces.
Eliminate limited edition coins. If you can't make enough to meet the demand of collectors, then don't make them. Make the order period two weeks and then strike enough coins to fill all orders.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Thanks for the article.
I do hope that we can finally see some more improvement in the limited sales by the mint.
I know that the last change implemented by the mint in regards to bots has had some affect on their use.
Many of the big purchasing outfits are seeking "flippers" to create their inventory.
Will wait and see.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
OIG. I know what it means. But you can't fix what's broken inside, by insiders.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The United States Mint can No longer be profitable with the old model of any type of Mint To Demand for Hot Items. 90+% of Every coin the United States Mint sells looses money. The Hot Items are basically the reason the Mint has turned a profit 1 year out of the last 3 on the numismatic side...
Then the solution is obvious: Cut out the 90% that doesn’t sell or loses money.
My Guess is that the Upcoming auction was the results of the FY2021 "investigation".
Better be careful what you wish for.
I'm ALL in favor of Auctions...
Auctions are NOT the way to go. The collectors will lose out to the dealers and flippers who have the deep pockets to pay high prices
Federal Law dictates...
Year in and Year out Annual Core Sets Lose money hand over fist.
For 14 years straight the penny has Lost money on the circulating side...
Could Not Disagree more...
Dealers and Flipper have to be profitable to be successful...
Each new program requires new legislation. The Secretary of Treasury simply needs to communicate the wasteful nature of the pieces to Congress or to his/her boss who can veto new legislation.
Edited: The bullion coin programs appear to be recurring though, but those hardly seem to be the pieces producing a loss.
If dealer prices exceed collector demand (as reflected in the prices realized), they will be stuck with the pieces or will have to drop prices to move the coins. It makes flipping much more risky. Let them get burned a couple of times and a lot of the shenanigans will stop.
You have 30k pieces, allow everyone to submit bids and the highest 30,000 bids get a coin. Or you could spread it out into six lots with the top 5k bidders getting coins. Prices realized from early auctions will help set the prices for the lots that sell later.
"The Secretary of Treasury simply needs to communicate the wasteful nature of the pieces to Congress"
Congress is where the Problem Starts and Ends. It's Not the Secretary of Treasury. It's Not the United States Mint. It's the Congress and last I checked Congress passes the laws...
"Each new program requires new legislation"
The American Innovation series Started in FY2019.
FY2019 The American Innovation series had a Net Loss of $5.8M
FY2020 The American Innovation series had a Net Loss of $12.1M
And the President (the executive branch of which the Secretary of Treasury is a part of) can veto those bills killing it except during a rare veto override.
Your other point is well taken - I did not realize that Congress had created so many junk programs with recurring authorization and thought we were mainly focusing on commemoratives. I lost interest during the early state quarters series.
If I interpret the CoinWorld article correctly, they indicate that the same is true for the nickel.
"Unit costs for cent and 5-cent coins were above face value for the 14th consecutive year, with FY2019 costs at 1.99 cents for the cent and 7.62 cents for the 5-cent coin."
Link
It's a non-problem. In a list of (potential) problems that needs to be solved, there may be one which is less important but if so, I'll need help to identify it.
There is no solution to make everyone happy.
Those who dislike auctions don't like that many collectors will be priced out or have to pay (a lot) more.
Those who dislike the current process with a "limited mintage" release don't like getting "locked out" and having to pay more in the secondary market, especially since many of them aren't buying it for their collection but resale.
Other collectors dislike mint to demand because it virtually guarantees a loss in the secondary market, especially since (purportedly), prices are set to cover all direct and indirect costs (cost accounting).
They should change the law so the mintages are not known prior to release😃
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Then the only ones that would know the mintages are the ones on the inside.
That's exactly zero transparency to All but a Few...
In the stock market that would be referred to a Insider Trading...
There are many instances within government where those not involved do not know…NTK. As long as no mint employee or their family can purchase…just an option
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Only insider training if they are allowed to purchase at release or provide the information to anyone before release
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And which government watchdog is going to see that that doesn't happen?
Congressman trade stocks ALL the time on inside information. Do you really think Congress is going to pass a law that prohibits them from benefiting ?
Coins is small beans for them man exactly because they can insider trade
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I’m not going to look it up (it’s on the Mint’s website) but the Mint loses, like, $5-10 million/year making pennies and nickels, but earns $40-50 million on dimes and quarters. My numbers might be way off, but the point was the Mint makes considerably more more on the dimes and quarters than it loses on pennies & nickels.
Just sell an issue for a limited time only such as two weeks. Only mint enough coins to fill the orders received. No one will know the final mintage until after the order period closes. Simple and fair to all involved.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The Mint can No longer be profitable doing business like it did years ago with a declining demographic base. Without Launch Day Sell Outs on Hot Items the Mint will revert to years of Unprofitability like FY2018 before Ryder…
Thanks for the response.
I did not look it up either. Just shared what was in the CW article.
Did not mean to disrupt the 'flow' of the thread with a minor detail. In short, it is an interesting topic.
Preventing cheating is a tough nut to crack. How do you prevent having multiple accounts with different details like shipping address etc ? How do you stop friends or relatives buy for someone ? How do you stop a network of buyers breaking household limits by buying for you ? I would suggest nobody likes to be called a cheater. But all the above are cheating, right ?
It's tough to do as long as humans are involved and don't like restrictions but love to be "clever" in getting around the rules.
One method, which will go over like a lead balloon, would be to have Mint Longevity Bonus Points based on how long you have been an active mint customer. (details to be worked out) Order fulfilment, on special issue coins ordered within household limits, would go to the highest Longevity points holders first descending by points to the lowest points held and finally to non Mint members, until the max mintage is attained.. This would kill new, or relatively new, networks of shadow buyers or bots from eating up the available mintage before collectors have a chance. Killing all "cheating" is almost impossible.
And I would lower the allotment of coins available to registered dealers before general public availability downward. Not to 0 but lower than the current combined 10%.
PerryHall said
Just sell an issue for a limited time only such as two weeks. Only mint enough coins to fill the orders received. No one will know the final mintage until after the order period closes. Simple and fair to all involved.
Maybe a lot less..... like 5 days.
Currently 35-45% of Overall numismatic coins sold goes to dealers or Big Boys. Having any type of Longevity Plan would allow dealers or Big Boys to have 35-45% of any Hot Item and Hot Items are ALL that we are taking about. Some mint items 50% go to dealers or Big Boys. Any Longevity Plan by numbers of coins sold or by dollar amount sold just improves the chances of dealers or Big Boys.
IF you’ve been with the Mint for 30 years and you purchase 1 uncirculated mint set per year should you get priority over another person that’s been a customer for 10 years that buys a 1 oz American Gold Eagle Proof each year for 10 years?
If you purchase 1 uncirculated set per year and I buy a 1 oz. American Gold Eagle Proof each year, who should have priority for a V75 1945 Gold American Eagle?
What has disappointed me is some of the members openly bragging how they circumvented the HHL on this last series of offerings.
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My confidence in the swamp is just a little below zero. Nothing will happen and nobody will be held responsible. JMHO
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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