Is this 45 P full bands?
FranklinFactory
Posts: 236 ✭✭
I've never held a 45 p fb in hand but this is the closest I have ever owned. What do we think here?
4
FranklinFactory
Posts: 236 ✭✭
Comments
Awfully close, but I think the nick on the left side of the band split and then weakness right in the middle and 90% to the right will just keep it from it. Especially since there’s such a huge price jump.
It’s a really nice one, though.
Clearly not.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
One more picture.
Doesn't look like it.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
shoo. i don't have it in-hand but if i did, i suspect there would only be the distant memory of a doily slab recognizable by the immense pile of plastic shards and a somewhat mangled insert and a coin gasket with no coin in sight... (even though slab prices are higher than normal now, for now)
that coin obviously came from a time when FB coins were being produced and it may have simply suffered some contact marks and maybe some goup in the band areas of the die.
i've spent more on smaller gambles than that.
if you do, prepare yourself for any result and maybe a few submissions. you have it in-hand. pull up some MAX CF images and you shall have your answer. (it may not even hurt to submit it through a big player)
Seems to be a near miss.... and will not get the FB. Cheers, RickO
If this was a different date it might slide by, but given the scarcity and the huge price increase for a 45P FB my guess is not.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Yes, a near miss. It should be worth a considerable premium over a typical flat strike.
I would hang on to it exactly like that and be thrilled with it. Besides, once that coin trades hands, we're all gonna see it offered forever on eBay for a gajillion dollars.
Close but no cigar.
Awesome near miss, and what a great holder to have her in. I bought a near miss in 66 from Ken @Fairlaneman off eBay before I was even here, back in 2003. Still have her. I need to bring those home for a photo visit sometime.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
For those that say no is it the middle band that is questionable?
Love that coin and would pay a significant premium if you ever want to sell it
You know, this could deteriorate into one of the contentious posts. Technically, it looks to me like there is essentially split bands with definite separation at the top and bottom binding. The difficulty is the middle bands/binding where above the fourth fascis there is a tiny bit of metal making a connection of the two bands. I just think it is semantics whether this is called a separation but I suppose technically it would fail the definition.
Well, just Love coins, period.
The middle bands are the only ones that count. And they look to be deficient in more than one area.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I really like it a lot. It's so close, but I think it just misses it. Great coin, and excellent pictures.
(I would have trouble cracking out a Doily Slab).
Pete
Yes.
Is this information given to the graders before they see the coins? Like a sticky note that says, "hey the FB designation on this date/mint commands huge sums of money so make sure to be extra critical, modify your grading standards for this date."
I ask because this is the common sentiment here, so much so that I genuinely need to ask.
No notes required or given. The graders typically know which dates, designations and grades fall into such categories.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
How can a company be objective when they treat different dates of the same series differently. Isn't the grading standard supposed to be consistent across the board, even for key dates?
I see a dark crevice going through the contact mark on the left which would indicate a continuation of the separation of the bands. The very center of the bands does look to have a slight bridge. I would have to submit it a couple of times. Perhaps the reconsideration mode, to preserve the doily label if they rule it is not full bands. A similar situation happened to me in 08. Picked a 42 d/d Jefferson that was close to full steps but did not get the designation from PCGS. As you can probably guess, one of the major Dealers got it into an NGC full steps holder and tripled the value.
Grading is an opinion not a standard, and opinions change all the time. And then there is the market grading aspect of todays grading room, which is another topic. Its no secret that older coins (early 1800's) do get some "breaks" when it comes to things like old toned over scratches and other marks that a modern clad coin would not.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
still worth extra cuz the doily
@coinbuf thank you, i appreciate the thoughtful answer
Close but no.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I think not.
As far as the grading standards/opinions goes - there’s just more at stake with some coins than others.
This one will maybe bring a multiple of the non-FB value because it’s so close, whereas some bring a premium of a few dollars when it’s glaringly apparent that one is FB and one isn’t.
I think they’re more technical and there’s more scrutiny when there’s more at stake (pros can correct me, it that what I’ve come to believe).
Also - I’m ok with it. On another date if I disagree with the FB, I offer $3 less. Not $3k less.
Wouldn't the hit crossing the bands on the left side also keep it from a FB designation?
Yes, it absolutely should. That doesn’t mean I haven’t seen examples that have ignored that though.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
What you have is a special coin and be thankful you didn't have to pay the FB price. Great find!
jom
It's damn close and certainly worth a premium.
I like it $1,000 worth….
And another doily bites the dust.
I like this coin, but not so much as a coin as a grading play. After a few grading tries, a non-FB grade in an auction will not preclude @TDN getting his $1000 out. Good risk/reward play. Probably only a 10% chance it would work, but then we've all seen worse.
If the TPGs wanted to dilute the Full Bands definition from Fully Split and Rounded Bands to Fully Split Bands, so be it. It made some sense. And that ship has sailed.
Looking at the first page of HA results for 1945P 10c's in FB, this coin's "splittedness" seems to be better than a few and less than most. I observed several that had marks "bridging" the split and qualified, a couple unmarked and less well-struck in those areas (center of and/or left side of bands), a 45-P in PCGS MS67 NO BANDS that brought $5500 and was a bargain, and a 45P in 67+FB CAC which had, IMNSHO, a serious and deep mark transecting the killer-split bands that would shock many thinking hard about it. That one could (not should) get a consolation prize as a likely 66FB if sent in raw. A Registry collector might delude themselves thinking this is the finest graded. A seasoned/experienced Mercury Dime collector would likely not be offended. Some mega-guppo with more money than grading knowledge metaphysically screwed himself and will make money secure in his lack of knowledge that there are others even less knowledgeable who will likely make him a profit. Some chase coins; other chase labels.
As a numismatic slut and market whore, I operate where the two domains converge. @MrEureka has prescribed more Laphroaig and less introspection.
If this clarifies this situation for you, you have not been paying attention
A great coin with nice eye appeal but not a FB IMO.
Save the dolly! lol
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I would not accept that in my full band's collection. But it is nice and worth a large premium. Leave it as is IMHO.
This doily holder is missing its outer security band. So, there's less value in this doily holder to destroy if someone were thinking of cracking it out and trying for FB.
The 45-P Merc with nice Bands are hard to come by, no doubt.
His coin is a premium example and best you can get for non FB money IMO.
The holder, even without the outer ring, is an added bonus.
I agree with you on this.
Here is one of my 45-P examples.
Someone posted a 1945 P FB here in the last month to 45 days. If memory serves it's bands were not rounded but were fully separated. This one is damn close.
I love doilys and all, but with the outer band gone, I'd be tempted to give that a few show gradings to get it into a 5FB or 6FB holder. $10k coin in that grade.
Mercs are actually somewhat common in doilys too, so even me, a huge plastic fan, would be singing it...
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
This is one of those coins where you sell it for $1k, then recognize it for sale later in the holder you should have tried to get it in and it sells for 10x what you sold it for.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@DelawareDoons or you submit is 10 time then sell it for a grand to get your money back then see it at auction in the holder you tried for
Martin
Yes, but grading is a continuum. There are going to be Mercs that are nowhere close to FB and Mercs that are lock amazing FB coins every time. Some coins will fall in the middle, the coins that could be just-miss FB or just-made FB. For better or for worse, what's going on with the graders is that they're acknowledging the scarcity of a 1945-P in FB, and when a coin is a liner, they're going to err on the side of calling it not FB when a more common date for FB they could go either way. Put a different way, when grading, there are lots of grades to choose from (and now even more with the plus grades). But a designation like FB is binary, so they can't mark "weak FB" and "good FB" and "amazing FB." While "weak FB" may still be FB, I think the grading companies are cognizant of that fact, and for a coin where FB is scarce, they may require at least "weak FB+" before handing out the designation. That said, I don't think this coin should be FB for any date.