Rate the PCGS Genuine Problem coins as to what you would find acceptable for your collection.
braddick
Posts: 24,872 ✭✭✭✭✭
"Cleaned"
"Polished"
"Altered"
"Damaged"
"Holed"
"Tooled"
"Environmental Damage"
"Questionable Color"
"Scratch"
"Grafitti"
Just for fun, here are some examples of a PCGS "Genuine Only" graded problem coins.
peacockcoins
0
Comments
None of those descriptions are acceptable for a very common coin, at any price. Common coins are easy to find nice.
All of them are acceptable for an extremely rare coin (for my collection) at the right "net grade" price, IMO.
The grade/price penalty is proportional to the severity. (Edit, really ugly coins are heavily downgraded... sometimes to below poor 😉)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
About the only one I would, and have accepted, is cleaned. And to clarify, it depends on the extent of the cleaning and the scarcity of the coin. And maybe questionable color. All the rest = cull or bullion value to me. Most older coins have been cleaned in one way or another. If it is a really rare coin like an 1802 half dime, i can accept any except altered.
None would be acceptable for my collection. I do have one but it is only temporary as I will get rid of it. Wheel Mark Damage that I can't find or see definitively but the TPGs were consistent in finding it. That's okay, off it goes.
I did a thread about it here: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1057761/gtg-1956-d-10c-hints-didnt-work-grade-revealed-in-1st-post/p1
That said, I don't understand how bullet hole carbon spot coins get graded just fine. Not only does the carbon spot eat through the luster layer but it eats into the metal of the coin. It's bad damage, not just a little nick in the coin. I've seen two Mercury Dimes in the same exact Top Pop grade. One of them is nice. The other has bullet hole carbon spots. Why the heck, how the heck?...I just don't understand. The two coins are not even comparable.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Okay Pat, I'll play.
Probably none, but I never like to say never.
In order (I think), with the caveat, "In all cases it would depend on the coin."
"Questionable Color"
"Scratch"
"Grafitti"
"Holed"
"Damaged"
"Environmental Damage"
"Cleaned"
"Polished"
"Altered"
"Tooled"
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I currently own a few coins designated by NGC with "surface hairlines". One I bought long ago with corrosion. These are very hard to find, either at all or decent.
I'd buy a holed Spanish colonial "royal" if I wanted it. It's the norm. Maybe on a handful of others but not otherwise.
Otherwise, I agree with Baley's post.
This one counts, it is a dipped XF so it got a cleaned designation but it is one of only 3 known with the mint Mark type for 1875 of the same die was used in 1873-76. Long standing short set in the trade series that is all but impossible to complete.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I keep a few for educational purposes, but try to avoid them.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
I agree as to severity of the problem. Example a slightly cleaned coin as oppossed to a severly cleaned coin is ok in my book.
I am close to you in thought and practice: QC is first (unless it is those crazy circus colors) followed by CLEANED. POLISHED is last as there is no correcting it. I've seen ED coins (especially copper) that can be professionally repaired and look decent. Surprisingly I also own a TOOLED coin that is art. It is a Seated Liberty with hair and skirt details that have been enhanced and look neat.
I don't like HOLED other than on that rare occasion- for example, a member here who owns a 1955/55 that is striking other than a small neat hole.
peacockcoins
A few colonials with ED but minor porosity and a 1652 shilling that has ben clipped. No details coin that has been purposely altered. In the case of ED I have seen coins that have been straight-graded that look much worse than some that didn't make the cut. No expert here on corrosion, just my own assessment of eye appeal. In the case of clipped coins, edge clips are an interesting part of our history. I also have a 4 reals that looks like it took a couple of hits with a knife, clearly long ago - looks like pirate damage in my imagination.
"What's the price?"
I eagerly added this Cleaned coin to my collection, as far as I can tell it is a one of one error for the type, I wasn't going to let a surface issue stop me from acquiring it:
For some issues, I would overlook just about anything for a genuine error. Show me a cleaned, polished, scratched, and holed Trade Dollar with chop marks and Liberty carved onto a toilet, but with a genuine rim clip, and it's going into my type set.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Depends on the coin. I don't see a reason to own most problem coins, but a truly well-struck 1921 Peace dollar with a light old cleaning might be interesting to own. If you gave me a cleaned AU 1792 half disme or chain cent with a slight planchet issue I'd probably accept the gift. I'd probably accept a bent, holed, tooled, colorized genuine 64-D Peace dollar. There's no conceivable reason to own a 38-D buffalo nickel with problems though.
None are acceptable to me, as the coins I’m interested in are generally available in original condition. Some are quite expensive, but still available.
Dave
Right! There are 3 primary types of collectors of very rare, high demand coins:
-Weathy ones
-Those who will never be able to afford (or justify the purchase of) a problem free example and will forever go without, and
Those willing to compromise.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I did just purchase this one today. I am finishing a low-grade set of Liberty nickels, and this one fits the bill, give or take.
peacockcoins
It's not so much the problem as it is the degree of the problem. The only coin I'd take as details is a 1792 half dime with any of those problems as long as it didn't look completely destroyed.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
"Cleaned" is a very broad term. I wouldn't have too much of a problem with a light, old cleaning. The use of a brillo pad would make the coin totally unacceptable. Same with questionable color.
It would vary based on how each looked. I'm not very concerned with condition, but holes are usually a deal breaker. But even at that I can see scenarios where I would accept a holed coin. Say a genuine US gold coin or any US coin from the 1700s for under $100.
Questionable color would also be a major detraction for me. All color is a detraction. So fake color is even worse. I wouldn't pay money for it but I would accept it as a gift.
Tooling, wouldn't really like that but I can see scenarios where I overlooked it. Polishing as well...not something I'd seek out or spend a lot of money on but if the scenario and price was right, yeah, I'd do it.
As I've said many times I'm a collector of opportunity. I generally don't search for things, I collect interesting items that cross my path.
It all depends on the degree. Is the alteration something minor like a failed putty job that can be conserved revealing a market acceptable coin or does it involve the movement of metal? How bad is the scratch? Is it there but might straight grade on next submission? Is it toned over?
Holed or Plugged coins are what I want. Gold and Commemoratives, holed and/or looped. I like this thread, it tells me holed coins should be really cheap, since no one wants them. I don't find them cheap very often. I still want several.
Show me the coin and tell me the price and then I'll answer your question.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I've got a few....in order of how much they bother me.
Scratch...yes, it's there.
Cleaned...picture looks much worse than in hand, IMO.
QC...actually paid a small premium
Our hosts say QC, but if so then done a while ago; it has looked the same since it was plated in Overton editions 2 through 4.
I rate all 4 Peace Dollars in the OP as "Unbelievably Nasty". Thanks!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Two things that will keep me from buying a coin that are not on the list, and probably shouldn't be, are badly spotted and worst of all (for me), fingerprints.
Severity and rarity are the typical considerations. "If there are only a few, anything will do".
Usually I find myself accepting:
Scratch (small)
Cleaned (lightly)
Edge filing (minor)
Environmental Damage (corrosion)
Here is one that baffles me in a problem holder. I bought it for the strike.
There definitely are coins with conditions as listed, that I would not buy. In some cases, it would depend on the degree of the offending condition. Basically, I would need to see the coin - and hear the price. Although, altered/tooled would usually be disqualified. Cheers, RickO
Maybe a light case of graffiti other then that I'll pass
PCGS will place this coin in a regular holder noting the planchet flaw if the submitter pays the additional error fee.
peacockcoins
"Fugly"
Alt-surf should be reversible with conservation. (unless it is hiding something)
I'll take that one.
2nd choice would be questionable color.
My Saint Set
This.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
This:
Problem coins- somebody has to own them. Anyone who wants to dispose of them, just send them to me for immediate disposal.
I will gladly buy the worst beat-up, polished, scratched, holed, ugliest, tooled, nearly unidentifiable, 1802 half dime that anyone has. Offer it to me now!
The 2 "genuines" in my collection
if you want a better view of the 1857 or the rest of my LC set, just click the link in my sig
the
https://www.cointalk.com/media/albums/the-2020-20-large-cent-set.1855/
I have this one with "Questionable color." It's perfectly acceptable to me.