GTG 1956-D 10c **Hints Didn't Work, Grade Revealed in 1st Post**
keyman64
Posts: 15,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
If you know because of DM discussions with me, please refrain and enjoy your popcorn.
I will say that this has been graded three times, twice by our host and once by ATS. The grade was the same each time.
The photo is a PCGS True View.
Grade Revealed Link to the Full TrueView
https://d1htnxwo4o0jhw.cloudfront.net/pcgs/cert/37397169/166380925.jpg
Our Host says Damage 98. On the Label it had WHEEL MARK
I did not see it after the first time it was slabbed.
I did not see it after the second time it was slabbed.
For the money it sure would be nice to get more information.
I have seen coins graded "problem free" that darn near have hatchet marks in them.
I sent the coin ATS thinking I might get a different opinion and I did not. They were consistent with our host and I appreciate that BUT they at least said REVERSE WHEEL MARK on the label. I really appreciate that level of guidance, eliminating one half of the coin. But guess what, with the coin in hand and the ability to look at the MAX True View, I still don't see it. My eyes have not been educated as a grader. All of that said, if they are talking about the darker streak of toning that goes through the middle of UNITED then I am still baffled. There is no metal movement that I can see anywhere on the obverse or reverse that indicates damage to me.
I would rather have this knocked down a grade and actually GRADED than have it in a holder that claims damage. When I see coins with darn near hatchet marks grade but not this one, all I can do is shake my head.
So, with your eagle eyes, can you pinpoint the DAMAGE?
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Comments
Very nice dime! I would guess 67 FB
Nice dime. 67+?
Super nice coin and I should think it’s way up there in the grade.
67 and or +
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Love the toning. I’d say 67, very close for FB, but maybe a bit short.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
It's wonderful. I'll guess MS67+FB.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
67
67+ FB
I would say 66...FB... tarnished
Cheers, RickO
It is a rare sight to see a Roosevelt dime graded higher than MS67 that is not tarnished. I have only seen a couple.
I’m not that fond of it. So I’ll guess...
68FB
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
67+ FB... very nice
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Thanks everyone! No one has guessed it yet. Keep trying. I’ll post the answer this evening.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
66
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Hint Zero from the original post
All three attempts resulted in the same opinion.
Hint One
Had the coin received one of the many nice grade numbers mentioned above the first time, it would not have been cracked out and tried again. Had the coin received one of the many nice grade numbers mentioned above the second time, it would not have been cracked out and tried again and sent ATS to try there for the third attempt.
Hint Two
It is NOT AT.
Ready set gooooooooo.
And are you able to pinpoint the defining characteristic that made the TPGs run with this opinion?
Do you think it is the right opinion?
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
AU58
Mr_Spud
66+ with hits above the eye brow?
bob
58.
MS65 (tics on the portrait?)
peacockcoins
No one has it yet.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I’m thinking that since the coin was graded the same on three different occasions, and by both PCGS and NGC, maybe their sight-seen opinion is relevant.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Ok, then I guess 64 and it has something to do with the left side upper bands of the torch
Mr_Spud
I can agree with that and appreciate it. When I reveal in a couple of hours I will link to the full TV image and see if people can identify the characteristic that causes this opinion.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Any other guess from @MFeld or @TomB
Be harsh and just wildly guess, including something you might not be able to see from the pics. What other possibilities do you think there are?
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Why would I guess, based on something I can’t see in the pictures? I prefer not to guess wildly - at least not intentionally.😄
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At this point it would be for entertainment but if you do not feel entertained I can certainly understand you avoiding it. I will be interested in your thoughts when I post the link to the Max TV...which could possibly lead to another thread discussion.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Did it come back cleaned? I've seen neatly toned coins such as this with what the services call a cleaning (under the toning). It doesn't really appear to be the case here, yet it a guess based on prior coins I've seen.
peacockcoins
Not cleaned but certainly a valid guess.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
BUMP. Reveal in first post.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I’m not at all surprised that a wheel mark wasn’t apparent in the images - sometimes they can be difficult to detect, even in-hand.
Many years ago, a client submitted a coin which came back “wheel mark” and he couldn’t see it. I had him send the coin to me. But even with advance notice of what I was looking for, it took me more than a few seconds to locate it. Halogen lamps can be very helpful for detecting such flaws.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Is it the damage on the left side of the top bands and also the tips of the leaf next to the top band? Like maybe if they used a loupe to see if it was full bands that black Mark on the right end if the upper bands might actually be identifiable damage maybe?
Mr_Spud
Thanks @MFeld
Clearly, at least 3 graders and 3 finalizers see it (if that's how it works). I can appreciate the consistency....but it ticks me off that I can't see it when I blow up a photo to the size of Texas and then wonder why some coins with hatchet marks get put into problem free holders. I have looked at this coin under different lighting, including halogens, with a 10x and 20x and can't find it. I admit my eyes haven't been EDUCATED but geez! I have had to correct TPGs multiple times when it comes to variety attributions so there are areas where my eyes have been plenty more educated than graders at TPGs. It's just frustrating and I would like to be shown exactly what is so freaking terrible that this coin can't be graded when hatchet marks seem just fine.
I can take it to Summer FUN in case you happen to be there or anyone else wants to look at it. I would love to be educated as to why this can't be graded. I know PCGS is only taking submissions at the show so I guess they won't have graders. Hmmm
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
No clue, maybe. If that is it then my comments stand that I would want the coin graded while taking into account any and all hits...but taking them as hits, not something that can't be graded.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
You’re not describing a wheel mark.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Wow. That's tough! I wonder, with the coin in hand, if tilted under just the right lighting conditions (the kind the graders use), if it then can be seen? Otherwise, I can see why you would crack and resubmit.
peacockcoins
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/4412/Wheel-Marks/
The rows of parallel hairlines under the toning going slightly upwards from one end of the white rectangle to the other resemble the wheel marks in the NGC Wheel Mark link above. The lines continue through the damaged looking leaf tip and sort of end right after the black mark on the edge of the upper bands of the torch. Maybe? 🤔
Mr_Spud
You’re most welcome. No need to be upset, just because you can’t see it in pictures. Often, other problems such as cleaning and spot removals don’t show in images, either. That’s because pictures aren’t a substitute for tilting and rotating a coin under a light.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Good video ... explaining wheel marks & how difficult they are in noticing them
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&ei=UTF-8&p=what+is+a+"wheel+mark"+on+a+coin?&type=E211US1249G0#id=1&vid=93f35564456656077b9e5dac87479a0f&action=click
Agree that hatchet marks would be worse than these tiny flaws
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I feel you, I have a 44-S merc that I was sure was a 67FB. It came back with Wheel Mark Details. I think I can kind of see the marks, but I don't know. I need to pull it out and take another look.
Yup, good video, thanks. I intended this thread as an educational one and hope it has been for more than just me.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
It does bring up the question, why are minor wheel marks an automatic rejection? Is it mostly due to tradition at this point?
As someone here said, there are big hits/scratches and other problems on coins that still straight grade.
Maybe the problem is our grading method of reducing things to a grade. Maybe a grade on the label plus a few remarks (or even codes) would help not only to describe the coin better but also let people have a clearer idea what the graders saw.
I think you're right. Man, that's small to me. The lines in the pic all angle in the same direction.
But what the heck do I know? I said a mint state Buff had wear.
I really got to quit these things. I can't trust my opinions anymore.
Pete
ANACS, here I come.
I'm no expert on grading, but I know a few things. My thoughts.....
Possibly the marks that go though “Dim”?
I wonder what the magnification was that was used?
Typically, once you tilt and rotate such a coin just right, you shouldn’t need any magnification to see the wheel mark.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was just about to type all of that.
Wheel marks (to me) seem like a completely normal part of circulation. Maybe a coin with wheel marks should top out at AU58 or something, but I’m still failing to see why it precludes a grade.
The graders are like “you can’t see the problem, but trust us, your coon is damaged beyond acceptance.”
There’s probably a better reason, and I hope someone can give it to me.
I like the dime in the OP.
It’s damage, not normal circulation marks. And often, graders detect tooling, repairs and other issues that many viewers might miss. Would you want those coins to be straight-graded too?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'd like it all to be net-graded.
If the problem is so small and difficult to detect, should it be worth all of the points?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry