Is the 2021 Morgan part of the original series?

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jmlanzaf
jmlanzaf Posts: 43,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 19, 2021 3:37PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Is the 2021 Morgan part of the original series?

All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

Is the 2021 Morgan part of the original series?

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  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,878 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The response options don't match the question. ;)

  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I’m sure it is, one or the other.

  • Hydrant
    Hydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Undecided

    @JBK said:
    The response options don't match the question. ;)

    Damn it

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • Batman23
    Batman23 Posts: 5,494 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    I say no. The series was discontinued. Four other designs (plus a couple side ones) of the $1 denomination have been issued for circulation since the end of the Morgan series. This is a special commemorative with a different metal composition and weight from what I read. These are made for a purpose not consistent with the original series. I see lots of reasons they should not be part of the original "set".

  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    No I think it should stand on it own merits

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Undecided

    @CoinJunkie said:
    Edited since you changed the question. I'll say no, since to my mind it's strictly a money grab by the US Mint. The original coins were minted with the intention of facilitating commerce.

    If you include appeasing the silver lobby under "facilitating commerce".... >:)

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • CoinJunkie
    CoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @CoinJunkie said:
    Edited since you changed the question. I'll say no, since to my mind it's strictly a money grab by the US Mint. The original coins were minted with the intention of facilitating commerce.

    If you include appeasing the silver lobby under "facilitating commerce".... >:)

    OK, how about "were minted with the pretense of facilitating commerce"? B)

    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    That's like saying that the 1986 ASE is part of the original Walker series.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • BillyKingsley
    BillyKingsley Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭✭
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    Yes

    Yes. It's the same design, just a different date.

    Billy Kingsley ANA R-3146356 Cardboard History // Numismatic History
  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,878 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2021 4:21PM
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    @Walkerfan said:
    That's like saying that the 1986 ASE is part of the original Walker series.

    No....different reverse and most importantly different denomination. :*

  • RB1026
    RB1026 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭✭
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    Yes

    @Walkerfan said:
    That's like saying that the 1986 ASE is part of the original Walker series.

    .
    .
    Have to respectfully disagree. The 1986 ASE used the obverse design of the WLH but a completely different reverse, was denominated as $1, was a larger size, and was issued as a 1 ounce silver bullion coin. I can't see how anyone could argue that a 1986 American Silver Eagle was in fact a Walking Liberty Half Dollar.

    The 2021 Morgan Dollar is, however, a different case. It uses the same design (obverse/reverse), denomination, size, and name as issued and declared by the United States Mint. That certainly suggests a strong case that it belongs with its ancestors. It's really weird to me too but it is what it is. If the Mint had designated it as a "commemorative" or some other title I'd go along with the naysayers but everything I've seen calls it the "2021 Morgan Dollar". Like it or not.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CoinJunkie said:
    I'll say no, since to my mind it's strictly a money grab by the US Mint.

    The mint is trying to sell stuff. People will choose to either buy them or not. No grabbing involved.

  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2021 11:18AM
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    No

    @RB1026 said:

    @Walkerfan said:
    That's like saying that the 1986 ASE is part of the original Walker series.

    .
    .
    Have to respectfully disagree. The 1986 ASE used the obverse design of the WLH but a completely different reverse, was denominated as $1, was a larger size, and was issued as a 1 ounce silver bullion coin. I can't see how anyone could argue that a 1986 American Silver Eagle was in fact a Walking Liberty Half Dollar.

    The 2021 Morgan Dollar is, however, a different case. It uses the same design (obverse/reverse), denomination, size, and name as issued and declared by the United States Mint. That certainly suggests a strong case that it belongs with its ancestors. It's really weird to me too but it is what it is. If the Mint had designated it as a "commemorative" or some other title I'd go along with the naysayers but everything I've seen calls it the "2021 Morgan Dollar". Like it or not.

    Fair enough. Those are valid points, so you pose a good argument. It’s still not part of the original series, IMHO. It is more of a tribute or commemorative coin, as it is not intended for commerce.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • Martin
    Martin Posts: 999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2021 10:11PM
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    Undecided

    Is the 1921 apart of the series? It is accepted as such. The 1921 also does not look like the original at least to me. I’m on the fence, if it is almost a dead ringer for the original them I’m thinking so. Also is it going to be 90% or .999 fine. If the later I’m inclined to say no.

    Martin

  • ShipwreckCoinHunter
    ShipwreckCoinHunter Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2021 11:56PM
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    No

    This coin is a commemorative. The originals were legal tender that was actually used as money. These new commemorative don’t have the history of the originals.

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,878 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Many millions of the originals were not used as money. They were used as a store of silver to back silver certificates, sent overseas to help our allies fund WWI, or stored in bags at the Treasury for decades until the GSA sold them off. ;)

  • Onastone
    Onastone Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2021 3:40AM
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    No

    Are the 5 oz ATB pucks merely quarters and part of that series?

    @rip_f said:
    No
    I think they more accurately should be considered a tribute coin.

    Exactly.

  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Undecided

    It is if YOU want it to be. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • TurtleCat
    TurtleCat Posts: 4,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    I don’t consider the 2021 part of the classic set as the 2021 is more of a tribute coin than anything. However, as I have said elsewhere, I think the way it should be handled in set collecting is:

    1. Classic dates
    2. Classic + new dates
    3. New dates only

    At the end of the day only these three options will make everyone reasonably happy.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    I will not consider it part of the original series. It is being minted to commemorate the end of the series, not as a circulating coin. Purely a collectors specimen. If it were minted to circulate, part of our coinage in commerce, then I would agree it would become part of the coin series. Cheers, RickO

  • privatecoin
    privatecoin Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Undecided

    Only if it's bagged and handled like original morgans were.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @privatecoin said:
    Only if it's bagged and handled like original morgans were.

    In 1949, Canada issued a commemorative dollar for circulation. In previous years, coins were shipped to banks in bags but for this year, paper tubes were used. Based on the argument above, those 1949 dollars would not be part of Canada's silver dollar series, which continued until 1967.

  • privatecoin
    privatecoin Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Undecided

    @MasonG said:

    @privatecoin said:
    Only if it's bagged and handled like original morgans were.

    In 1949, Canada issued a commemorative dollar for circulation. In previous years, coins were shipped to banks in bags but for this year, paper tubes were used. Based on the argument above, those 1949 dollars would not be part of Canada's silver dollar series, which continued until 1967.

    Sarcasm aside , I would consider rolled pretty close to the same standards as bagged.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • savoyspecial
    savoyspecial Posts: 7,374 ✭✭✭✭
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    Is a 5 oz. hockey puck still a Washington Quarter?

    www.brunkauctions.com

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @privatecoin said:

    @MasonG said:

    @privatecoin said:
    Only if it's bagged and handled like original morgans were.

    In 1949, Canada issued a commemorative dollar for circulation. In previous years, coins were shipped to banks in bags but for this year, paper tubes were used. Based on the argument above, those 1949 dollars would not be part of Canada's silver dollar series, which continued until 1967.

    Sarcasm aside , I would consider rolled pretty close to the same standards as bagged.

    You might want to reconsider. The rolled 1949 dollars are well known for being much easier to find with minimal handling marks than bagged coins.

  • derryb
    derryb Posts: 38,615 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    No, it is a one-year only "tribute" coin with a different silver composition.

    Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat

  • Raybob15239
    Raybob15239 Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭
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    No

    I would not consider it to be part of the original series (same with the 2021 Peace Dollar). They are NCLT coins, like the Eagles.

    Successful B/S/T transactions: As Seller: PascoWA (June 2008); MsMorrisine (April 2009); ECHOES (July 2009) As Buyer: bfjohnson (July 2008); robkool (Dec 2010); itsnotjustme (Dec 2010) TwoSides2aCoin (Dec 2018) PrivateCoin Jan 2019
  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    The 1921 coins were issued for commerce although they circulated only to a limited extent. The 2021 is an official silver round that is made to get collectors’ money. The two bear a resemblance in look, but that’s the end of synergy.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • privatecoin
    privatecoin Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Undecided

    @MasonG said:

    @privatecoin said:

    @MasonG said:

    @privatecoin said:
    Only if it's bagged and handled like original morgans were.

    In 1949, Canada issued a commemorative dollar for circulation. In previous years, coins were shipped to banks in bags but for this year, paper tubes were used. Based on the argument above, those 1949 dollars would not be part of Canada's silver dollar series, which continued until 1967.

    Sarcasm aside , I would consider rolled pretty close to the same standards as bagged.

    You might want to reconsider. The rolled 1949 dollars are well known for being much easier to find with minimal handling marks than bagged coins.

    Yes, but that doesn't guarantee that for all coins. I've had plenty of rolled Kennedys look as bad as bagged.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • yspsales
    yspsales Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    Interesting and appreciated and appealing for many reasons... but no

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @privatecoin said:

    @MasonG said:

    @privatecoin said:

    @MasonG said:

    @privatecoin said:
    Only if it's bagged and handled like original morgans were.

    In 1949, Canada issued a commemorative dollar for circulation. In previous years, coins were shipped to banks in bags but for this year, paper tubes were used. Based on the argument above, those 1949 dollars would not be part of Canada's silver dollar series, which continued until 1967.

    Sarcasm aside , I would consider rolled pretty close to the same standards as bagged.

    You might want to reconsider. The rolled 1949 dollars are well known for being much easier to find with minimal handling marks than bagged coins.

    Yes, but that doesn't guarantee that for all coins. I've had plenty of rolled Kennedys look as bad as bagged.

    I never made such a guarantee. What I did say is that the handling of the 1949 dollars was distinctly different than previous years, which is something you said would preclude their inclusion in the series.

  • Schmitz7
    Schmitz7 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭
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    The mint should put these in a canvas bag for 50 years in a vault somewhere and then sell them in 2071 at $1,800 each in a cheap plastic government holder.

    As for part of the original set, I would say YES

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,878 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2021 11:40AM
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    The different composition in itself is not a disqualifier. Compositions have changed within many series.

    Not being issued for circulation in itself is not a disqualifier as many series have had collector-only issues.

  • JJM
    JJM Posts: 8,129 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes

    No

    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37,Waverly, justindan
  • JRGeyer
    JRGeyer Posts: 157 ✭✭✭
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    No

    The current $1 coin is the Sacagawea design, the 2021 Morgan and Peace are tribute coins, so I do not consider them part of the original series.

    That being said, people should classify them however they want.

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JRGeyer said:
    The current $1 coin is the Sacagawea design, the 2021 Morgan and Peace are tribute coins, so I do not consider them part of the original series.

    It is possible to have more than one current design/composition for any particular denomination. Example? Three cent pieces.

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,878 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JRGeyer said:
    The current $1 coin is the Sacagawea design.

    Hmmm.

    We have the Sacagewea dollar (Native American dollar, actually, now that the reverses change each year), AND the Innovation dollar, AND last year we also had the last (for now) Presidential dollar.

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes

    @MasonG said:

    @JRGeyer said:
    The current $1 coin is the Sacagawea design, the 2021 Morgan and Peace are tribute coins, so I do not consider them part of the original series.

    It is possible to have more than one current design/composition for any particular denomination. Example? Three cent pieces.

    The gold dollar and silver dollar circulated together.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Never

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • olympicsos
    olympicsos Posts: 990 ✭✭✭✭
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    Yes

    ATS is considering 2021 morgans to be part of the original series on its coin explorer

    https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/united-states/dollars/morgan-dollars-1878-1921/

  • AlanSki
    AlanSki Posts: 1,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    Big no since they were never designed or entered into circulation.

  • jabba
    jabba Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2021 7:47PM
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    Well technically the 1921 Morgan isn’t part of the original series and the 2021 really isn’t but it’s up to the collectors


    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923

  • Steven59
    Steven59 Posts: 11,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The "NEW 2021's" look like medals - just dull surfaces.

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • morgansforever
    morgansforever Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    Morgan dollars were used in commerce and circulated. The 2021 versions will never be used in commerce nor will be circulated, they're collectables made for collectors.

    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

    I voted no as to part of original series, however, I will put the CC privy Morgan with my CC Morgan set....Cheers, RickO

  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2021 7:34AM
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    Yes

    It’s an interesting question.

    1. Composition by itself wouldn’t make it different as we’ve have changes in composition like the Arrows and Rays Seated Liberty Quarter.
    2. Not circulating by itself wouldn’t make it different as we not only have the JFK half dollar which are not intended to circulate, we have the 1933 double eagle which was intended never to have been released.

    Perhaps there’s no constant and it comes down to one’s personal beliefs on whether it should be included or not?

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists

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