Buy to cross vs buy in holder?

TurtleCat · April 11, 2021 4:06PM

I’m going to leave the TPG names out of this because it isn’t really relevant to the question. When you are buying do you buy regardless of holder and then cross to the holder of your choosing or do you only buy in the holder you prefer?

Yes, I know all the things about buy the coin not the holder, etc. This question is for assuming you prefer a particular holder for your collection.

I’ve been buying only one type of holder but have been thinking about branching out and getting another type and crossing when I feel like it’s worthwhile. I currently don’t want multiple brand holders myself. You?

WQuarterFreddie · April 11, 2021 4:09PM

I prefer either buying raw and having it graded or if already graded then I will only buy PCGS.

Not worth the expense of gambling on a crossover from another TPG in my opinion.

MFeld · April 11, 2021 4:21PM

If you want a coin in a particular holder, save yourself the money, time, potential frustration and battle against the odds, and just buy it in that holder.

davewesen · April 11, 2021 4:32PM

If there are not many around, sometimes you have to try and get one that fits.

yspsales · April 11, 2021 4:37PM

I got three AH Kennedy Halves at PCGS now.

Seek a CAM and should have just bought outright for all the waiting, fees etc... But the picker in me cannot say no.

I would opt for the best coin in terms of eye appeal and budget, and in the TPG you choose.

koynekwest · April 11, 2021 4:47PM

I try to buy 'em in a PCGS slab. I will then send it in for a True View if it doesn't already have one.

coinbuf · April 11, 2021 4:48PM

I'm well documented as the strongest fan of not chasing plastic brands, so it should be no surprise that my answer is that I never buy with the thought of changing the plastic.

Gazes · April 11, 2021 5:17PM

A long time ago I decided to only buy pcgs coins (realized many other TPG coins were cheaper for a reason). This focus has served me well. I cant think of any coin in the past that was in another holder that I now regret not purchasing. Maybe I will miss out on a coin or two but overall I like the product pcgs provides and the liquidity it provides. So regarding the OP , i prefer to only purchase pcgs and not play the crossing game.

MasonG · April 11, 2021 5:57PM

I collect coins. The plastic (if there is such) is irrelevant.

winesteven · April 12, 2021 1:56AM

@MFeld said:
If you want a coin in a particular holder, save yourself the money, time, potential frustration and battle against the odds, and just buy it in that holder.

This!

BillJones · April 12, 2021 3:08AM

I buy the coins I like in NGC or PCGS holders, and I never cross them. My tastes often run more toward PCGS for U.S. coins. So far as foreign and ancient coins go, I prefer them raw. Ditto for tokens and medals.

It’s best to buy the item in the holder of your choice and not get tied up with crossovers.

TONEDDOLLARS · April 12, 2021 3:35AM

Since I focus on GSA’s I only want them graded by NGC. This is so they will still fit in the original boxes they came in. Also I feel NGC is tighter on grading GSAs as proven out by auction results. That said, I have bought a few pcgs graded GSAs that I felt were correctly graded and crossed them.

coinkat · April 12, 2021 4:40AM

Apparently it just cannot be written enough times that grading has a subjective component. It is a mere opinion at a point in time when the coin is graded and graders and collectors in general can change their opinion... and that opinion cuts both ways. While opinions as to holders and stickers can change, the coin really should be the constant factor that should not change unless in is cracked out to be enhanced in an effort to seek a higher grade.

The coin is the focal point and should be why we collect. The rest is background noise and should be treated as such.

amwldcoin · April 12, 2021 4:46AM

If I like the coin and don't think I can find one with the same eye appeal I will buy to cross.

ricko · April 12, 2021 4:55AM

I buy the coin - It could be raw or slabbed by any TPG. Sure, I understand the hierarchy and financial considerations. That being said, I am a coin collector and focus on the coin. I do not play the crossover game, I do not sell coins, and have only cracked holders that were severely damaged. Those are my personal collecting parameters. Others collect differently and we each (I hope) enjoy the hobby. Cheers, RickO

keets · April 12, 2021 5:00AM

members here like to blow the "Buy the Coin and not the Holder" trumpet all the time, so when you find the right "COIN" shouldn't you just buy it, no matter what "HOLDER" it happens to be in?? otherwise, it strikes me as a little hypocritical. after you own the "COIN" you can keep it in whatever "HOLDER" you'd like it to be in. which raises another point: if you learn how to grade, following that strategy should work.

PerryHall · April 12, 2021 5:03AM

@ricko said:
I buy the coin - It could be raw or slabbed by any TPG. Sure, I understand the hierarchy and financial considerations. That being said, I am a coin collector and focus on the coin. I do not play the crossover game, I do not sell coins, and have only cracked holders that were severely damaged. Those are my personal collecting parameters. Others collect differently and we each (I hope) enjoy the hobby. Cheers, RickO

I feel the same way. I don't do the registry thing and I buy what I like. I'm not going spend the money to re-slab a coin when that money can go toward buying another coin. The grading fee and the round trip insured shipping can be a significant expense.

yspsales · April 12, 2021 5:07AM

My standards and PCGS standards align and are a point tougher than NGC on Morgans.

I am sure the pendulum reverses on other series. Have not really tested the theory.

So yes, for Morgans, I generally just look at our host.

TurtleCat · April 12, 2021 5:43AM

Interesting. With so many here not on the crossover wagon (at least those responding), it is interesting how many items do get crossover attempts. In the last 30 days, 3216 coins have been attempted crossovers with 49% crossing out of 272,362 graded items. At least with PCGS. I’m sure there are many different reasons for crossovers.

As I said originally, I’ve been buying in the holder of my choice but have thought about branching out when availability of what I seek is hard to find in my holder but maybe not in another holder type.

Cougar1978 · April 12, 2021 7:03AM

I don’t buy coins to cross them. It’s all in the deal to me. I would go broke playing the cross over game. Furthermore if submitting I play to win (upgrade) not lose or tie.

Mexico There are probably people crossing high grade stuff 66 and above where Pcgs blue sheet bid greater than ngc. It’s their money, p&l, risk their hobby. Enjoy your coins.

divecchia · April 12, 2021 8:32AM

I only look at and buy coins in PCGS holders. I know I am missing out on some nice coins, but I can't have another brand in my set (my OCD won't allow it) and I don't want to play the crossover game. The key is to collect in whatever way makes the hobby enjoyable for you.

Donato

lkenefic · April 12, 2021 8:57AM

I think there are about as many ways to "collect" as there are "collectors"... I don't do the Registry Set thing either, so having all of my coins in PCGS holders isn't a collecting goal for me. Personally, it's going to depend on the sets I'm putting together and how they are to be displayed. One set I've been working on (off and on) since I was a kid, is a Type Set. I like the presentation afforded by an album, so regardless if the coin is slabbed or not, if it fits in with overall look of this set (mostly XF-AU coins)... I'll buy it, and put it in the album. Other sets I'm actively working on have a different presentation in mind, as well as other intangibles. For instance, I'm also working on a "Gold Page" for my Type Set. Here is where I'm likely to diverge from album collecting since... 1- the coins are a bit more expensive; 2- Gold coins are heavily counterfeited; and 3- I'm out of my depth when it comes to accurately gauging authenticity of gold pieces (I just haven't looked at nearly enough of them to feel confident)... which brings me back to #1 and #2... I'll be saying the same thing about the 18th C Type coins I'm looking at as well. They will most likely be slabbed and fit into some version of a "Box of 20".

ReadyFireAim · April 12, 2021 1:14PM

In my recent experience, beans straight cross. Everything else should probably be cracked.
There could be a surprise under those big white prongs.

earlyAurum · April 12, 2021 3:37PM

I have bought NGC coins and have been lucky enough to cross the most important ones. It wasn’t on my mind when I bought.

That said - l learned how difficult it can be with some coins. If the risk reward is good enough, I will do it but I’m very, very cautious. I try to buy PCGS as a priority.

koynekwest · April 12, 2021 4:09PM

@keets said:
members here like to blow the "Buy the Coin and not the Holder" trumpet all the time, so when you find the right "COIN" shouldn't you just buy it, no matter what "HOLDER" it happens to be in?? otherwise, it strikes me as a little hypocritical. after you own the "COIN" you can keep it in whatever "HOLDER" you'd like it to be in. which raises another point: if you learn how to grade, following that strategy should work.

I agree completely but for me I buy only in a PCGS holder.

One of the big problems today is that learning to grade is unimportant as long as there's a grading company to grade for you and various beans to make sure the grading company got it right.

keets · April 13, 2021 4:52AM

One of the big problems today is that learning to grade is unimportant as long as there's a grading company to grade for you and various beans to make sure the grading company got it right.

this may be the unspoken truth that has developed with the advent of CAC. to be sure, the same thing took place when TPG's came to prominence during the 1990's and into the 21st Century, collectors and dealers came to rely too heavily on the insert number. the Hobby adjusted but that threat has returned. consider the opinion above by ReadyAimFire.

to me, the explanation is money, it's always money. there will always be someone or some entity that's trying to suck money out of the hands of collectors. being convinced that one need not know how to grade and that one can pay someone else to do that while trusting in them 100% is a dangerous thing.

koynekwest · April 13, 2021 4:56AM

Agreed. When I first started to collect in 1961, and for many years thereafter, having the ability to grade, at least at a basic level, was a critical skill. Not so much any more.

Boosibri · April 13, 2021 4:58AM

@MFeld said:
If you want a coin in a particular holder, save yourself the money, time, potential frustration and battle against the odds, and just buy it in that holder.

Agree except for when you buy coins that you are lucky to find in any holder.

Exbrit · April 13, 2021 5:03AM

It depends. With most coins - you can find similar quality coins in either holder - if they are common. For the rarer coins - sometimes if you want your collection to be in the same holder - you may have to cross from one to the other. Depending on costs and how badly you want the coin it may be worth it. Most times not as there are plenty of quality coins out there that come up for sale often.

I've crossed several with good success. I'd rather buy them raw and then have them graded, but as I said - sometimes you don't have much of an option (rare ones). And when I say rare - I'm not talking about most rarity scales where rare is easy to come by, I'm talking about coins that only are available once in a blue moon.

santinidollar · April 13, 2021 5:46AM

With me, the coin is the thing whether it’s in a PCGS or NGC holder. In fact, I have a few old ANACS white holders and one coin in an ICG slab. In all cases, I bought because I liked the coin. No crossovers for me.

matt_dac · April 13, 2021 9:22AM

@BillJones said:
I buy the coins I like in NGC or PCGS holders, and I never cross them. ......

This for me too...

TurtleCat · April 13, 2021 9:33AM

It’s been very interesting reading everyone’s opinions but I am not entirely sure everyone got the context of what I asked in the first post. I do like the point @Exbrit made about whether there’s a reasonable supply of the coin type(s) you’re looking for or not in a particular holder. That would influence a crossover decision.

Cameonut · April 13, 2021 2:55PM

I've only been doing this for 30+ years. I've learned to buy the coin I want in the holder I want.
Playing games with crossing is not for the feint of heart.

koynekwest · April 13, 2021 4:17PM

And I particularly agree with keets that it's all about the bucks.

coinbuf · April 13, 2021 4:32PM

@TurtleCat said:
It’s been very interesting reading everyone’s opinions but I am not entirely sure everyone got the context of what I asked in the first post. I do like the point @Exbrit made about whether there’s a reasonable supply of the coin type(s) you’re looking for or not in a particular holder. That would influence a crossover decision.

Perhaps you would like to expand on your initial thought so that we may understand the context you want to convey.

But my position is still the same, as an example. I am looking for a coin and I would prefer to have that coin in an NGC holder for registry reasons. The NGC pop shows 3 in the grade I seek none higher, while the PCGS pop shows 44 with 2 higher. So my chances of finding an NGC graded example is slim to none (it is very possible that the three have been crossed) therefore my only choice may be a PCGS graded example. And if that becomes the only option and I find one that I like I will buy the PCGS graded coin, but will never attempt a crossover.

golden · April 13, 2021 4:54PM

Buy the coin in the holder that you want. You will save yourself time and money and a potential no cross.

Along · April 13, 2021 4:59PM

I need all my coins to be in the same TPG holders, and will not look at ones that are not.

TurtleCat · April 13, 2021 5:38PM

@coinbuf said:

@TurtleCat said:
It’s been very interesting reading everyone’s opinions but I am not entirely sure everyone got the context of what I asked in the first post. I do like the point @Exbrit made about whether there’s a reasonable supply of the coin type(s) you’re looking for or not in a particular holder. That would influence a crossover decision.

Perhaps you would like to expand on your initial thought so that we may understand the context you want to convey.

But my position is still the same, as an example. I am looking for a coin and I would prefer to have that coin in an NGC holder for registry reasons. The NGC pop shows 3 in the grade I seek none higher, while the PCGS pop shows 44 with 2 higher. So my chances of finding an NGC graded example is slim to none (it is very possible that the three have been crossed) therefore my only choice may be a PCGS graded example. And if that becomes the only option and I find one that I like I will buy the PCGS graded coin, but will never attempt a crossover.

I actually thought it was pretty clear. I am looking for opinions of those who want coins in a single TPG brand only. Then the question is do you buy only the brand holder regardless of other brands or do you also buy other brands with the express desire to cross. I had in my second paragraph about this topic assuming you’re trying to get things into one brand, not for registry or any other purpose. Just for those who prefer a particular brand.

I also wasn’t looking for advice for my particular situation. Just curious what others who prefer a single brand do as I mentioned how I currently only buy the brand of choice but have been considering crossing over particular coins that I might come across.

Catbert · April 13, 2021 5:38PM

The type coins I buy are readily available. I intensely dislike white prongs and they distract my focus and detract from the coin’s presentation. While I won’t exclude buying a special NGC holdered coin, I tend to avoid them. Crossing over is a hassle to me since I don’t have a PCGS membership.

Exbrit · April 13, 2021 6:44PM

@TurtleCat said:

@coinbuf said:

@TurtleCat said:
It’s been very interesting reading everyone’s opinions but I am not entirely sure everyone got the context of what I asked in the first post. I do like the point @Exbrit made about whether there’s a reasonable supply of the coin type(s) you’re looking for or not in a particular holder. That would influence a crossover decision.

Perhaps you would like to expand on your initial thought so that we may understand the context you want to convey.

But my position is still the same, as an example. I am looking for a coin and I would prefer to have that coin in an NGC holder for registry reasons. The NGC pop shows 3 in the grade I seek none higher, while the PCGS pop shows 44 with 2 higher. So my chances of finding an NGC graded example is slim to none (it is very possible that the three have been crossed) therefore my only choice may be a PCGS graded example. And if that becomes the only option and I find one that I like I will buy the PCGS graded coin, but will never attempt a crossover.

I actually thought it was pretty clear. I am looking for opinions of those who want coins in a single TPG brand only. Then the question is do you buy only the brand holder regardless of other brands or do you also buy other brands with the express desire to cross. I had in my second paragraph about this topic assuming you’re trying to get things into one brand, not for registry or any other purpose. Just for those who prefer a particular brand.

I also wasn’t looking for advice for my particular situation. Just curious what others who prefer a single brand do as I mentioned how I currently only buy the brand of choice but have been considering crossing over particular coins that I might come across.

I actually have a set that I want in NGC holders (only). If I discover a hard to find coin in another company's holder, I will cross it and have done so many times. It's individual preference to have a set in the same holder or a collection of them. It's also personal preference on which holder.

Same goes for PCGS - crossing that is.

Buy to cross vs buy in holder?

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