if the GreySheet were to vanish, what is there currently in use that could even approach the universal application that this guide offers?? for the overall bulk of the US Coin Market I doubt there is anything that approaches the GreySheet. certainly, if you have something like a toned 1883-CC Morgan Dollar, the GS isn't the guide to use. but for raw coins it is quite helpful, useful and accepted.
There are HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of DOLLAR in coins that are traded annually based exclusively on the Greysheet. Now, you might not want to be in that part of the industry, but that sight unseen market exists and is huge. It is probably the dominant way that things like silver dollars and proof sets get moved around.
"The "combo subscription" was LOWERED to the price of the print subscription, so the only people negatively affected were those who only subscribe to digital access, and now want to receive printed copies. For those we assess the difference fee, but when people ask nicely, we do it for free. "
I have coins currently on E-Bay priced at GS bid that can't even get looks. E-Bay sold listings trend much higher than the prices I've started at. I'm wondering if they're both full of sh%$?
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I have coins currently on E-Bay priced at GS bid that can't even get looks. E-Bay sold listings trend much higher than the prices I've started at. I'm wondering if they're both full of sh%$?
.99 cents and a seven day auction ending at 8pm Pacific on a Sunday.
Let it ride.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I have coins currently on E-Bay priced at GS bid that can't even get looks. E-Bay sold listings trend much higher than the prices I've started at. I'm wondering if they're both full of sh%$?
Perhaps your starting prices (as opposed to no minimums) are the deterrents to higher prices that might be realized in a true auction.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
"The "combo subscription" was LOWERED to the price of the print subscription, so the only people negatively affected were those who only subscribe to digital access, and now want to receive printed copies. For those we assess the difference fee, but when people ask nicely, we do it for free. "
One of these things is not like the other.
This statement from Greysheet is also frustrating because a customer should not have to "ask nicely" when the terms of an agreement are changed mid agreement without input or options. This sort of statement is gaslighting and pretty insulting.
The pricing can never be spot on in this market because we aren't trading orange juice and pork bellies
CDN is a tool, nothing more nothing less. In a large toolbox of information in the age of information.
I don't particularly like the bid/ask pricing model in US classic numismatics. Let the cards speak based on auction results, web sales etc. Just do your homework you will be OK IMO.
@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh...
.
.
Be aware that there are dealers who laugh at those who laugh at dealers who pick up a greysheet!
.
Such a combination can become volatile and spiral out of control as happened here when the dealer (in the blue shirt) picked up a greysheet and the other guy (in the blue shirt) laughed.
Add in a bottle, and this sad situation took place.
.
.
@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.
My gospel is eBay sold results.
Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.
Where does the grey sheet get its information to print their bid/ask levels ? And why do you think the sources are reliable?
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
First off.... As usual, A thread I know nothing about.
However, An OP who wishes to rant as something set him over the edge. That's something I can relate to. Count me in.
Pricing of coins... I shoot from the hip. I generally sell very generic coins so price discovery isn't that difficult. I use archive auctions from various sources and adjust to current market conditions . If I had something that is unique I would have a problem. I hate problems.
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I have coins currently on E-Bay priced at GS bid that can't even get looks. E-Bay sold listings trend much higher than the prices I've started at. I'm wondering if they're both full of sh%$?
Try listing them at the HIGHER Coin World Price Guide or the HIGHER PCGS price guide.
No price guide is perfect. In the end, the price in any guide represents the center of a distribution.
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I have coins currently on E-Bay priced at GS bid that can't even get looks. E-Bay sold listings trend much higher than the prices I've started at. I'm wondering if they're both full of sh%$?
Perhaps your starting prices (as opposed to no minimums) are the deterrents to higher prices that might be realized in a true auction.
Hmmmm. 🤔
I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I have coins currently on E-Bay priced at GS bid that can't even get looks. E-Bay sold listings trend much higher than the prices I've started at. I'm wondering if they're both full of sh%$?
.99 cents and a seven day auction ending at 8pm Pacific on a Sunday.
Let it ride.
That's a good way to sell a Brasher Doubloon for $900
@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.
My gospel is eBay sold results.
Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.
Where does the grey sheet get its information to print their bid/ask levels ? And why do you think the sources are reliable?
The Grey sheet gets its prices from dealers. Some of the prices (Blues, CAC) represent REAL bids from dealers to buy coins (CDN network).
@JohnF said:
John, we're very sorry to lose you and I'm sure if you asked nicely we would have upgraded your last 2 issues to send you a complimentary mailed copy. We realized people are inconvenienced by this change, but we also realize we cannot keep allowing the indiscriminate sharing of our intellectual property (IP). I wish those who are upset could spend a moment considering what it means for us and our business to maintain this security. We certainly didn't do it to upset you...
I sympathize with the IP argument ... indiscriminate sharing is akin to pirating movies and CDs, etc. and is theft.
I’m not a tech expert, but I wonder if there is a way to encrypt the digital version and provide the subscriber a one-time use password so it can be read on an electronic device of their choice but it would not be shareable or readable on another device. Just a thought. 🤔
I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.
My gospel is eBay sold results.
Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.
Where does the grey sheet get its information to print their bid/ask levels ? And why do you think the sources are reliable?
The Grey sheet gets its prices from dealers. Some of the prices (Blues, CAC) represent REAL bids from dealers to buy coins (CDN network).
And some of those numbers are deceptive and unreliable. But as individual data points, tempered by real market knowledge, experience and good judgment, all of the numbers are useful to some extent.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.
My gospel is eBay sold results.
Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.
Where does the grey sheet get its information to print their bid/ask levels ? And why do you think the sources are reliable?
The Grey sheet gets its prices from dealers. Some of the prices (Blues, CAC) represent REAL bids from dealers to buy coins (CDN network).
And some of those numbers are deceptive and unreliable. But as individual data points, tempered by real market knowledge, experience and good judgment, all of the numbers are useful to some extent.
Agreed. That's why they call them "guides" and not "bibles". Especially for any individual coin that may be exceptional or ugly for the grade, prices will vary.
@Higashiyama said: @EXOJUNKIE said: "I sympathize with the IP argument ... indiscriminate sharing is akin to pirating movies and CDs, etc. and is theft."
I agree. It is easy to underestimate the amount of effort required to keep this current.
Ask Netflix about how much they lose to password sharing...
With the Post Office in a "death spiral without reform, " according to Postmaster DeJoy, I don't see delivery problems going away anytime soon. Having the ability to print out PDF download files and carry them around on my laptop mitigated this issue without having to rely on connectivity to the CDN website. I don't see myself paying for a monthly subscription for a printed version which may or may not arrive in my mailbox before the following month's issue is distributed. I wonder if the unintended consequences of less "consumption" by paying customers is worth the possible (unlikely) increase in consumption by people who weren't paying customers to begin with.
@ReadyFireAim said:
You mean the "melt-price sheet?"
Is that still around?
That was an undeserved and pathetically inaccurate cheap shot. I look up hundreds of coins on a weekly basis and the CDN provides reasonably accurate indications on a very high percentage of them. Flaws and all, I don’t know of another guide that offers a better combination of comprehensiveness, accuracy and efficiency of use.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Victa said:
With the Post Office in a "death spiral without reform, " according to Postmaster DeJoy, I don't see delivery problems going away anytime soon. Having the ability to print out PDF download files and carry them around on my laptop mitigated this issue without having to rely on connectivity to the CDN website. I don't see myself paying for a monthly subscription for a printed version which may or may not arrive in my mailbox before the following month's issue is distributed. I wonder if the unintended consequences of less "consumption" by paying customers is worth the possible (unlikely) increase in consumption by people who weren't paying customers to begin with.
This, of course, was the calculation we deeply considered and made. For years we allowed the unmitigated "sharing" but our data is our biggest asset. We cannot afford for people to share it without a subscription.
Also, in response to some here who commented about our pricing the Greysheet out of their budget.. we hear you. The Greysheet is a dealer product intended for professionals, investors and serious collectors who have the budget for this. In acknowledgment that the price was too high for more casual collectors we created the CPG and CAC price guides which are only $30/year each for 4 issues. The values in these guides are directly based on Greysheet values so you're getting a great guide for a really reasonable price.
Of course, we also recommend collectors use the PCGS price guides which are highly regarded in the market. Use all the data you can when making buying decisions.
Thank you to all here for your supportive comments!
John Feigenbaum Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com) PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
Greysheet is invaluable in a number of areas; I'm glad they started listing varieties, otherwise would not have known the substantially higher value on a an early cent. Also I have seen shops buy GSA Morgans such as 1890 and 1891 ccs for regular GS pricing though the GSAs bring considerably more. In Greysheet they would see how much they are worth.
I would like to see the old issue option, as many collectors and part time dealers just can't justify the rising subscriptions.
@DollarAfterDollar said:
I have coins currently on E-Bay priced at GS bid that can't even get looks. E-Bay sold listings trend much higher than the prices I've started at. I'm wondering if they're both full of sh%$?
Price guides are just that, they give you an idea of what the coins roughly should sell for. Years ago (1970's-1990's), I could never sell modern proof sets for bid, no matter how hard I tried, but I could get 10% below bid. Dealers would buy them below bid and sell them at bid to their customers. It was like bid was retail on these.
People are looking for bargains, starting coins therefore, at graysheet bid, does not spark much interest. If you start at a lower price more people will take notice and watch your coin on their ebay watch list.
Greysheet has it's place. A dealer at a show, cannot sit there spending a lot of time searching the internet if a person comes in with a lot of coins.
When I sell coins on ebay auction style, I always use true auctions, low starting bids and it sells to the highest bidder. A key coin usually reaches the current market price or close to it. Good idea to check the prices sold listings bring.
@logger7 said:
I would like to see the old issue option, as many collectors and part time dealers just can't justify the rising subscriptions.
I see this as a result of a stagnant or declining price level and the same problem I see in the TPG business model. Cost of business and living increases while the price level and collector's incomes increase less or not at all. From what I read, the price level has been flat or declining since around 2008.
The problem with Greysheet is that the prices can be most highly misleading. Take a roll of '68 dimes for instance. The fact they list a price at all is highly misleading because it suggests that this coin is like a commodity. Finding such a roll is highly improbable at all and when you do and check the Greysheet you'll see it lists at $6 implying it's a most common commodity. The reality is that if you find a '68 dime roll the coins will be junk and no one wants even Gems of this date because there are so few collectors and it is "common" in Gem. The price is "right" but there are enough collectors now days that a nice attractive roll will bring far more than $6 for the right buyer.
There are modern coins that routinely sell for far over ask and others that are almost impossible to give away.
This being said Greysheet can still be invaluable and I need to consult it from time to time. It's influence will wax and wane but until it's supplanted by something better, I think it will stick around.
It’s new CPG pricing app is fantastic. It is a CDN bid based pricing tool I find very useful which covers both US Coins and currency in addition to their entry into World like Canada and China. In addition it has MV for CAC. It is a consistent real-time app linking MV to changes in CDN bid and BV.
I also refer to TPG price and CF. My offers in auc and off bourse are pct of what feel can sell item for so it fits great on my roster of pricing tools.
@Victa said: I wonder if the unintended consequences of less "consumption" by paying customers is worth the possible (unlikely) increase in consumption by people who weren't paying customers to begin with.
@JohnF said: This, of course, was the calculation we deeply considered and made. For years we allowed the unmitigated "sharing" but our data is our biggest asset. We cannot afford for people to share it without a subscription.
Also, in response to some here who commented about our pricing the Greysheet out of their budget, we hear you...
@Victa said: I have no doubt you deeply considered the pros and cons of your latest move and that you can't afford for people to share it without a subscription. I do wonder, however, if your solution will turn those non-paying individuals (let's call them cheaters) into paying customers, while keeping your paying customers satisfied and on board. There are just too many other ways for cheaters to cheat (e.g. by photocopying, selling previous issues at discounted prices, etc.).
Don't get me wrong, I do not condone copyright infringement in any way. However, there is a greater incentive for cheaters to do so when they can save $35 for the more comprehensive Monthly Greysheet, than say $10 or so for more limited coin series pricing. So when you say that "data is our biggest asset," I'm really not sure what you mean. Data itself cannot be copywrited, only the compilation, creative arrangement, annotation or selection of data. Also, as a fellow business owner, I consider my employees and paying customers to be most important. Seems to me you may be cutting off your nose to spite your face, but I hope it works out for you.
@rec78 said:
Years ago (1970's-1990's), I could never sell modern proof sets for bid, no matter how hard I tried, but I could get 10% below bid. Dealers would buy them below bid and sell them at bid to their customers. It was like bid was retail on these.
I don't have a current copy, but the older greysheets used to clearly note that their prices were for dealer-to-dealer wholesale transactions. Of course retail buyers preferred to use these prices as a reference for buying, since they're lower than published retail prices. Since that's what retail customers came to expect to pay and dealers obviously couldn't use the same value for buying and selling, there was no choice but to offer less than bid when buying in order to be able to offer a "wholesale" price when selling to their retail customers.
@rec78 said:
Years ago (1970's-1990's), I could never sell modern proof sets for bid, no matter how hard I tried, but I could get 10% below bid. Dealers would buy them below bid and sell them at bid to their customers. It was like bid was retail on these.
I don't have a current copy, but the older greysheets used to clearly note that their prices were for dealer-to-dealer wholesale transactions. Of course retail buyers preferred to use these prices as a reference for buying, since they're lower than published retail prices. Since that's what retail customers came to expect to pay and dealers obviously couldn't use the same value for buying and selling, there was no choice but to offer less than bid when buying in order to be able to offer a "wholesale" price when selling to their retail customers.
Most dealers are still trying to get bid on proof/mint sets. But the wholesale market is 25% or so below bid.
I have to admit, the one section of the Greysheet that I really don't understand is the Proof/Mint set prices. The ask price is "+10%" of the bid price. But when you've got all those proof and mint sets in the $3 to $6 range, who is going to bother with them to make 50 cents, or less?
@PerryHall said:
Anyone ever use the free NumisMedia FMV Coin Price Guide? If so, what do you think of it?
I use Numismedia FMV as one good tool as well as auction results. They seem to be relatively close on average. Dealers now are often competing at auctions for material that was once available at wholesale bids. I find that nicer coins just don't become available at Greysheet prices so what good is it to me ?
@Victa said:
With the Post Office in a "death spiral without reform, " according to Postmaster DeJoy, I don't see delivery problems going away anytime soon. Having the ability to print out PDF download files and carry them around on my laptop mitigated this issue without having to rely on connectivity to the CDN website. I don't see myself paying for a monthly subscription for a printed version which may or may not arrive in my mailbox before the following month's issue is distributed. I wonder if the unintended consequences of less "consumption" by paying customers is worth the possible (unlikely) increase in consumption by people who weren't paying customers to begin with.
This, of course, was the calculation we deeply considered and made. For years we allowed the unmitigated "sharing" but our data is our biggest asset. We cannot afford for people to share it without a subscription.
Also, in response to some here who commented about our pricing the Greysheet out of their budget.. we hear you. The Greysheet is a dealer product intended for professionals, investors and serious collectors who have the budget for this. In acknowledgment that the price was too high for more casual collectors we created the CPG and CAC price guides which are only $30/year each for 4 issues. The values in these guides are directly based on Greysheet values so you're getting a great guide for a really reasonable price.
Of course, we also recommend collectors use the PCGS price guides which are highly regarded in the market. Use all the data you can when making buying decisions.
Thank you to all here for your supportive comments!
John,
You still have not addressed the issue, and your words about "nicely ask" are really frustrating. You know from many other dealers that are progressive in this business that we collectively are frustrated with CDN, but understanding of the pricing difficulties in a dynamic market. Those can be overlooked IF they are addressed promptly...which
What is really infuriating is that the goalposts change mid subscription and then the customer "service" response is: "YOU COULD HAVE ASKED NICELY".
That is frankly insulting. It should have been automatic....and it should have been broadcast as a notice with apology....and it the paper copy should have showed up on my doorstep or PO Box on time for me to use as I have PAID you to use.
Comments
if the GreySheet were to vanish, what is there currently in use that could even approach the universal application that this guide offers?? for the overall bulk of the US Coin Market I doubt there is anything that approaches the GreySheet. certainly, if you have something like a toned 1883-CC Morgan Dollar, the GS isn't the guide to use. but for raw coins it is quite helpful, useful and accepted.
There are HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of DOLLAR in coins that are traded annually based exclusively on the Greysheet. Now, you might not want to be in that part of the industry, but that sight unseen market exists and is huge. It is probably the dominant way that things like silver dollars and proof sets get moved around.
Charge more, deliver less.
Seems to be the mantra of many companies these days.
"Charge more, deliver less."
"The "combo subscription" was LOWERED to the price of the print subscription, so the only people negatively affected were those who only subscribe to digital access, and now want to receive printed copies. For those we assess the difference fee, but when people ask nicely, we do it for free.
"
One of these things is not like the other.
Seems like 'nicely' is a word of yesteryear not used by many now a days ?
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I have coins currently on E-Bay priced at GS bid that can't even get looks. E-Bay sold listings trend much higher than the prices I've started at. I'm wondering if they're both full of sh%$?
I don’t think that the biggest issue that the Greysheet faces is intellectual property sharing.
Latin American Collection
.99 cents and a seven day auction ending at 8pm Pacific on a Sunday.
Let it ride.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Perhaps your starting prices (as opposed to no minimums) are the deterrents to higher prices that might be realized in a true auction.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This statement from Greysheet is also frustrating because a customer should not have to "ask nicely" when the terms of an agreement are changed mid agreement without input or options. This sort of statement is gaslighting and pretty insulting.
siliconvalleycoins.com
I like the Greysheet and will stick with it, as my reference point.
What I'm abandoning are dealers who use it for leverage and to their own advantage.
When selling it is 'overstated' but when buying it is a 'wish list'.
You can't have it both ways!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The pricing can never be spot on in this market because we aren't trading orange juice and pork bellies
CDN is a tool, nothing more nothing less. In a large toolbox of information in the age of information.
I don't particularly like the bid/ask pricing model in US classic numismatics. Let the cards speak based on auction results, web sales etc. Just do your homework you will be OK IMO.
.
.
Be aware that there are dealers who laugh at those who laugh at dealers who pick up a greysheet!
.
Such a combination can become volatile and spiral out of control as happened here when the dealer (in the blue shirt) picked up a greysheet and the other guy (in the blue shirt) laughed.
Add in a bottle, and this sad situation took place.
.
.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I have not used a Greysheet in at least 35 years.
Where does the grey sheet get its information to print their bid/ask levels ? And why do you think the sources are reliable?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
First off.... As usual, A thread I know nothing about.
However, An OP who wishes to rant as something set him over the edge. That's something I can relate to. Count me in.
Pricing of coins... I shoot from the hip. I generally sell very generic coins so price discovery isn't that difficult. I use archive auctions from various sources and adjust to current market conditions . If I had something that is unique I would have a problem. I hate problems.
Try listing them at the HIGHER Coin World Price Guide or the HIGHER PCGS price guide.
No price guide is perfect. In the end, the price in any guide represents the center of a distribution.
Hmmmm. 🤔
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
That's a good way to sell a Brasher Doubloon for $900
The Grey sheet gets its prices from dealers. Some of the prices (Blues, CAC) represent REAL bids from dealers to buy coins (CDN network).
I sympathize with the IP argument ... indiscriminate sharing is akin to pirating movies and CDs, etc. and is theft.
I’m not a tech expert, but I wonder if there is a way to encrypt the digital version and provide the subscriber a one-time use password so it can be read on an electronic device of their choice but it would not be shareable or readable on another device. Just a thought. 🤔
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
And some of those numbers are deceptive and unreliable. But as individual data points, tempered by real market knowledge, experience and good judgment, all of the numbers are useful to some extent.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Agreed. That's why they call them "guides" and not "bibles". Especially for any individual coin that may be exceptional or ugly for the grade, prices will vary.
@EXOJUNKIE said: "I sympathize with the IP argument ... indiscriminate sharing is akin to pirating movies and CDs, etc. and is theft."
I agree. It is easy to underestimate the amount of effort required to keep this current.
Ask Netflix about how much they lose to password sharing...
You mean the "melt-price sheet?"
Is that still around?
My Saint Set
I was just about to subscribe for the first time.
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
With the Post Office in a "death spiral without reform, " according to Postmaster DeJoy, I don't see delivery problems going away anytime soon. Having the ability to print out PDF download files and carry them around on my laptop mitigated this issue without having to rely on connectivity to the CDN website. I don't see myself paying for a monthly subscription for a printed version which may or may not arrive in my mailbox before the following month's issue is distributed. I wonder if the unintended consequences of less "consumption" by paying customers is worth the possible (unlikely) increase in consumption by people who weren't paying customers to begin with.
That was an undeserved and pathetically inaccurate cheap shot. I look up hundreds of coins on a weekly basis and the CDN provides reasonably accurate indications on a very high percentage of them. Flaws and all, I don’t know of another guide that offers a better combination of comprehensiveness, accuracy and efficiency of use.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This, of course, was the calculation we deeply considered and made. For years we allowed the unmitigated "sharing" but our data is our biggest asset. We cannot afford for people to share it without a subscription.
Also, in response to some here who commented about our pricing the Greysheet out of their budget.. we hear you. The Greysheet is a dealer product intended for professionals, investors and serious collectors who have the budget for this. In acknowledgment that the price was too high for more casual collectors we created the CPG and CAC price guides which are only $30/year each for 4 issues. The values in these guides are directly based on Greysheet values so you're getting a great guide for a really reasonable price.
Of course, we also recommend collectors use the PCGS price guides which are highly regarded in the market. Use all the data you can when making buying decisions.
Thank you to all here for your supportive comments!
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
Greysheet is invaluable in a number of areas; I'm glad they started listing varieties, otherwise would not have known the substantially higher value on a an early cent. Also I have seen shops buy GSA Morgans such as 1890 and 1891 ccs for regular GS pricing though the GSAs bring considerably more. In Greysheet they would see how much they are worth.
I would like to see the old issue option, as many collectors and part time dealers just can't justify the rising subscriptions.
Price guides are just that, they give you an idea of what the coins roughly should sell for. Years ago (1970's-1990's), I could never sell modern proof sets for bid, no matter how hard I tried, but I could get 10% below bid. Dealers would buy them below bid and sell them at bid to their customers. It was like bid was retail on these.
People are looking for bargains, starting coins therefore, at graysheet bid, does not spark much interest. If you start at a lower price more people will take notice and watch your coin on their ebay watch list.
Greysheet has it's place. A dealer at a show, cannot sit there spending a lot of time searching the internet if a person comes in with a lot of coins.
When I sell coins on ebay auction style, I always use true auctions, low starting bids and it sells to the highest bidder. A key coin usually reaches the current market price or close to it. Good idea to check the prices sold listings bring.
I see this as a result of a stagnant or declining price level and the same problem I see in the TPG business model. Cost of business and living increases while the price level and collector's incomes increase less or not at all. From what I read, the price level has been flat or declining since around 2008.
The problem with Greysheet is that the prices can be most highly misleading. Take a roll of '68 dimes for instance. The fact they list a price at all is highly misleading because it suggests that this coin is like a commodity. Finding such a roll is highly improbable at all and when you do and check the Greysheet you'll see it lists at $6 implying it's a most common commodity. The reality is that if you find a '68 dime roll the coins will be junk and no one wants even Gems of this date because there are so few collectors and it is "common" in Gem. The price is "right" but there are enough collectors now days that a nice attractive roll will bring far more than $6 for the right buyer.
There are modern coins that routinely sell for far over ask and others that are almost impossible to give away.
This being said Greysheet can still be invaluable and I need to consult it from time to time. It's influence will wax and wane but until it's supplanted by something better, I think it will stick around.
The CDN is a vital source of data for me.
It’s new CPG pricing app is fantastic. It is a CDN bid based pricing tool I find very useful which covers both US Coins and currency in addition to their entry into World like Canada and China. In addition it has MV for CAC. It is a consistent real-time app linking MV to changes in CDN bid and BV.
I also refer to TPG price and CF. My offers in auc and off bourse are pct of what feel can sell item for so it fits great on my roster of pricing tools.
@Victa said: I wonder if the unintended consequences of less "consumption" by paying customers is worth the possible (unlikely) increase in consumption by people who weren't paying customers to begin with.
@JohnF said: This, of course, was the calculation we deeply considered and made. For years we allowed the unmitigated "sharing" but our data is our biggest asset. We cannot afford for people to share it without a subscription.
Also, in response to some here who commented about our pricing the Greysheet out of their budget, we hear you...
@Victa said: I have no doubt you deeply considered the pros and cons of your latest move and that you can't afford for people to share it without a subscription. I do wonder, however, if your solution will turn those non-paying individuals (let's call them cheaters) into paying customers, while keeping your paying customers satisfied and on board. There are just too many other ways for cheaters to cheat (e.g. by photocopying, selling previous issues at discounted prices, etc.).
Don't get me wrong, I do not condone copyright infringement in any way. However, there is a greater incentive for cheaters to do so when they can save $35 for the more comprehensive Monthly Greysheet, than say $10 or so for more limited coin series pricing. So when you say that "data is our biggest asset," I'm really not sure what you mean. Data itself cannot be copywrited, only the compilation, creative arrangement, annotation or selection of data. Also, as a fellow business owner, I consider my employees and paying customers to be most important. Seems to me you may be cutting off your nose to spite your face, but I hope it works out for you.
I don't have a current copy, but the older greysheets used to clearly note that their prices were for dealer-to-dealer wholesale transactions. Of course retail buyers preferred to use these prices as a reference for buying, since they're lower than published retail prices. Since that's what retail customers came to expect to pay and dealers obviously couldn't use the same value for buying and selling, there was no choice but to offer less than bid when buying in order to be able to offer a "wholesale" price when selling to their retail customers.
If more people acted with integrity and stopped sharing/stealing the sheet - these changes likely wouldn’t have been needed.
To quote Egon in Ghostbusters “print is dead”
That's coinflation.com and it's free to everyone.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Most dealers are still trying to get bid on proof/mint sets. But the wholesale market is 25% or so below bid.
I have to admit, the one section of the Greysheet that I really don't understand is the Proof/Mint set prices. The ask price is "+10%" of the bid price. But when you've got all those proof and mint sets in the $3 to $6 range, who is going to bother with them to make 50 cents, or less?
I use Numismedia FMV as one good tool as well as auction results. They seem to be relatively close on average. Dealers now are often competing at auctions for material that was once available at wholesale bids. I find that nicer coins just don't become available at Greysheet prices so what good is it to me ?
Agree
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Agree
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I Agree
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
What's the CDN. ?
Publisher of the greysheet among other price guides. I believe it stands for Coin Dealer Network.
Coin Dealer Newsletter
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thank you sir
John,
You still have not addressed the issue, and your words about "nicely ask" are really frustrating. You know from many other dealers that are progressive in this business that we collectively are frustrated with CDN, but understanding of the pricing difficulties in a dynamic market. Those can be overlooked IF they are addressed promptly...which
What is really infuriating is that the goalposts change mid subscription and then the customer "service" response is: "YOU COULD HAVE ASKED NICELY".
That is frankly insulting. It should have been automatic....and it should have been broadcast as a notice with apology....and it the paper copy should have showed up on my doorstep or PO Box on time for me to use as I have PAID you to use.
Period.
siliconvalleycoins.com