Im abandoning the greysheet

coinlieutenant

1. Price inaccuracies continue to plague the issuance, both on the high and low side. These inaccuracies hurt collectors at a higher rate than dealers who know market levels with a higher degree of accuracy.

2. Customer service remains very poor, despite words from leadership saying that things were turning a corner

3. Most recent and most frustrating to me as a long time user of this publication is the recent change that doesn't even allow the greysheet to be downloaded to a subscriber's computer.

They have said that hard copies will be mailed to those that had a digital subscription, but ONLY if you renew your subscription. Unacceptable that I can't even use the subscription I paid for unless I have internet access and even then, the zoom function is poorly designed.

I'm TIRED of the cost, the poor quality of the pricing, the platitudes from the company with no action behind them and the constantly moving goalposts that hurt the consumer in a desperate effort to keep business revenue up. I swear it is almost like they WANT people to leave...

Nothing in this thread is false. They are all combinations of my experience and hard facts. Wake up to the reality of the information age, Greysheet.

John Marburger
Commander, USN (ret)
Silicon Valley Coins

TomB

Oh, man! What a tease!

CoinJunkie

@coinlieutenant said:
Details forthcoming

Consider it done!

Broadstruck

You should switch back to TP since the shortage is over

jmlanzaf

Ridiculous

PerryHall

@coinlieutenant said:
Details forthcoming

We're still waiting.

amwldcoin

LOL! I did when the ownership changed, the prices went up astronomically, and what appeared to me to be a group trying to crash the coin market!

ricko

It is with nail biting anticipation that I await the breaking news announced in the OP. Prognostications of horrendous events....... Wake me.... Cheers, RickO

PerryHall

Hopefully we'll get more information from the OP before this thread gets shut down for violation of rule 2.

lkenefic

...Inquiring minds, and all.

skier07

I haven’t abandoned it, I never subscribed to it.

Fishpro

I have a Red Book from 1964, I can offer that...

MFeld

It seems as if that should be a personal decision and not something to advocate here.

DelawareDoons

Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.

My gospel is eBay sold results.

coinlieutenant

@MFeld said:
It seems as if that should be a personal decision and not something to advocate here.

Why?

MFeld

@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.

My gospel is eBay sold results.

Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.

Catbert

@MFeld said:
It seems as if that should be a personal decision and not something to advocate here.

It's a hobby discussion board. I like hearing strong opinions that are supported by their evidence. Tamping down such discussion is not helpful for those who wish to learn from his experience.

MrEureka

I've been a subscriber since about 1975 and I find it a useful and convenient tool. If someone comes up with something better, I'll switch. Until then, they got me.

MasonG

@Catbert said:
It's a hobby discussion board. I like hearing strong opinions that are supported by their evidence. Tamping down such discussion is not helpful for those who wish to learn from his experience.

I don't think "tamping down on discussion" is the issue. It's the "you should do what I say" part.

MFeld

@Catbert said:

@MFeld said:
It seems as if that should be a personal decision and not something to advocate here.

It's a hobby discussion board. I like hearing strong opinions that are supported by their evidence. Tamping down such discussion is not helpful for those who wish to learn from his experience.

How about expressing opinions and presenting “evidence” without telling others what they should do? Please note, I’m not telling you what you should do.😉

Swampboy

Like everyone else I love being told what I "should" do.
🤣

......The thread title change works.

Justacommeman

What is this greysheet you speak of?

m

JBK

I guess my perspective is that if someone uses the Greysheet they already know the downsides and can make their own decision.

The OP is very informative and I don't doubt the veracity of the details, but for someone like me who does not use the Greysheet it has no impact on me as I can't boycott what I don't already buy.

tradedollarnut

I agree that the thread title is inappropriately long

divecchia

Here's how I approach it. It's a tool just like any other price guide like PCGS price guide, Red Book, Blue Book.

As a buyer of coins, I don't care what color your sheet or your book is. If I don't like the price I'm being quoted I move on.

Donato

DelawareDoons

@MFeld said:

@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.

My gospel is eBay sold results.

Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.

Sure, and I respect that... to an extent. But I also know that greysheet is only relevant as long as those dealers keep picking it up, and the customers take it seriously. The younger generation is ambivalent about greysheet and focuses more on what stuff actually sells for, not bids/asks at, with hard data to back it up on eBay.

eBay sold results are gospel to me because they show the baseline I can expect to sell any given coin for. Sure, you have to filter out some nonsense and misprices, as well as toners and some other stuff, but otherwise, it's primo material for pricing raw and graded coins. I do find myself using CoinFacts in conjunction with eBay solds more and more, now, and those two together make greysheet irrelevant for me.

MFeld

@DelawareDoons said:

@MFeld said:

@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.

My gospel is eBay sold results.

Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.

Sure, and I respect that... to an extent. But I also know that greysheet is only relevant as long as those dealers keep picking it up, and the customers take it seriously. The younger generation is ambivalent about greysheet and focuses more on what stuff actually sells for, not bids/asks at, with hard data to back it up on eBay.

eBay sold results are gospel to me because they show the baseline I can expect to sell any given coin for. Sure, you have to filter out some nonsense and misprices, as well as toners and some other stuff, but otherwise, it's primo material for pricing raw and graded coins. I do find myself using CoinFacts in conjunction with eBay solds more and more, now, and those two together make greysheet irrelevant for me.

There are all sorts of coins that don’t typically sell on eBay.

DelawareDoons

@MFeld said:

@DelawareDoons said:

@MFeld said:

@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.

My gospel is eBay sold results.

Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.

Sure, and I respect that... to an extent. But I also know that greysheet is only relevant as long as those dealers keep picking it up, and the customers take it seriously. The younger generation is ambivalent about greysheet and focuses more on what stuff actually sells for, not bids/asks at, with hard data to back it up on eBay.

eBay sold results are gospel to me because they show the baseline I can expect to sell any given coin for. Sure, you have to filter out some nonsense and misprices, as well as toners and some other stuff, but otherwise, it's primo material for pricing raw and graded coins. I do find myself using CoinFacts in conjunction with eBay solds more and more, now, and those two together make greysheet irrelevant for me.

There are all sorts of coins that don’t typically sell on eBay.

And thats where coinfacts comes in.

MasonG

@DelawareDoons said:
eBay sold results are gospel to me because they show the baseline I can expect to sell any given coin for. Sure, you have to filter out some nonsense and misprices, as well as toners and some other stuff, but otherwise, it's primo material for pricing raw and graded coins.

eBay is good for pricing raw coins, with the understanding that you have to look at every coin to verify the grade before the value is of use. Not very practical when you're trying to quickly come up with a number...

"What will you pay for this?"
"Come back in fifteen minutes and I'll tell you."

PerryHall

Anyone ever use the free NumisMedia FMV Coin Price Guide? If so, what do you think of it?

Pnies20

@MFeld said:

@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.

My gospel is eBay sold results.

Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.

I agree here. There’s multiple ways to check past sale prices. Pool them together and come up with a better idea of market trends.

coinlieutenant

Mark and Bruce,

You guys don't like Yelp?

I find it helpful.

coinlieutenant

@MrEureka said:
I've been a subscriber since about 1975 and I find it a useful and convenient tool. If someone comes up with something better, I'll switch. Until then, they got me.

I think the thing that sent me over the edge was the fact that I can't even effectively use the subscription I paid for because they changed the rules.

Very frustrating and exceedingly poor business practice.

yspsales

Not busy enough to justify GS but find it useful.

I just use ebay.

Alot of my stuff is either too common to uncommon for GS.

thebeav

When a van pulls up to your shop, and a guy starts unloading banana boxes full of post 1964 proof sets, good luck on doing the deal without a greysheet.......

MrEureka

@coinlieutenant said:

@MrEureka said:
I've been a subscriber since about 1975 and I find it a useful and convenient tool. If someone comes up with something better, I'll switch. Until then, they got me.

I think the thing that sent me over the edge was the fact that I can't even effectively use the subscription I paid for because they changed the rules.

Very frustrating and exceedingly poor business practice.

As long as they're willing to give you a pro-rated refund on cancellation, I can't fault them for doing what they think they have to do.

MFeld

@coinlieutenant said:
Mark and Bruce,

You guys don't like Yelp?

I find it helpful.

John, I use Yelp sometimes, but don’t see it as relevant to this thread.😉

PTVETTER

Everyone need to make up their own mind.
NO one person should sway you one way on another.

coinlieutenant

@thebeav said:
When a van pulls up to your shop, and a guy starts unloading banana boxes full of post 1964 proof sets, good luck on doing the deal without a greysheet.......

That deal would be easy....

coinlieutenant

There.....I changed the title. Everyone now can infer my recommendation instead of having explicit.

JohnF

John, we're very sorry to lose you and I'm sure if you asked nicely we would have upgraded your last 2 issues to send you a complimentary mailed copy. We realized people are inconvenienced by this change, but we also realize we cannot keep allowing the indiscriminate sharing of our intellectual property (IP). I wish those who are upset could spend a moment considering what it means for us and our business to maintain this security. We certainly didn't do it to upset you...

3stars

Not sure how putting "Commander, USN (ret)" is relevant? Your a civilian now. Rank is meaningless here. I say this as a former officer myself.

PerryHall

@3stars said:
Not sure how putting "Commander, USN (ret)" is relevant? Your a civilian now. Rank is meaningless here. I say this as a former officer myself.

It's spelled "you're" and thank you for your service.

coinlieutenant

@3stars said:
Not sure how putting "Commander, USN (ret)" is relevant? Your a civilian now. Rank is meaningless here. I say this as a former officer myself.

You know, I haven't posted here in a while.....and I am really starting to remember why. I put that in my signature line because I find that it adds validity to me not being a nutjob rube in life that just rolled in and started spouting nonsense. People trust military in general, and this business is built on trust.

And thank you for your service but not your really unhelpful comment.

coinlieutenant

@JohnF said:
John, we're very sorry to lose you and I'm sure if you asked nicely we would have upgraded your last 2 issues to send you a complimentary mailed copy. We realized people are inconvenienced by this change, but we also realize we cannot keep allowing the indiscriminate sharing of our intellectual property (IP). I wish those who are upset could spend a moment considering what it means for us and our business to maintain this security. We certainly didn't do it to upset you...

Im glad to hear from you, John. I sent you a note elsewhere....but didn't hear back.

ctf_error_coins

@coinlieutenant said:

@thebeav said:
When a van pulls up to your shop, and a guy starts unloading banana boxes full of post 1964 proof sets, good luck on doing the deal without a greysheet.......

That deal would be easy....

Very easy as in No deal. I would not pay face for proof sets as I do not have storage space.

CoinJunkie

I would typically pick up a hard copy of the Greysheet upon arriving at the Long Beach show (remember those?). I found it to be useful as a quick guide if I saw a coin of potential interest and wanted to know if the dealer's price was remotely reasonable. In other words, it was useful as a quick sanity check on the bourse. Obviously, before committing to purchase anything other than a cheap coin, further research was/is prudent. Greysheet prices were typically more accurate than TPG guides, in my experience.

FWIW.

DelawareDoons

@thebeav said:
When a van pulls up to your shop, and a guy starts unloading banana boxes full of post 1964 proof sets, good luck on doing the deal without a greysheet.......

"Hey man, the bank is over there."

ctf_error_coins

I paid 4 figures for a 2007 D PCGS MS 66 cent the other day.

How much over Greysheet did I pay?

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:

@DelawareDoons said:
Any time a dealer picks up a greysheet I laugh.

My gospel is eBay sold results.

Many extremely knowledgeable dealers (and collectors) get a lot more information from it than they do from eBay sold results. And I don’t see any good reason to treat just one source as “gospel”.

You need to do statistical analysis on eBay results. When you've got prices ranging from $30 to $300 for the "same" coin.

Greysheet is very good at what it is. What people expect it to be doesn't exist. An individual coin can always sell for more or less than ANY price guide.

JBK

@coinlieutenant said:

@3stars said:
Not sure how putting "Commander, USN (ret)" is relevant? Your a civilian now. Rank is meaningless here. I say this as a former officer myself.

You know, I haven't posted here in a while.....and I am really starting to remember why. I put that in my signature line because I find that it adds validity to me not being a nutjob rube in life that just rolled in and started spouting nonsense. People trust military in general, and this business is built on trust.

And thank you for your service but not your really unhelpful comment.

I don't mind the tagline. Many military, especially higher ranks, include their rank/branch/"retired". I suppose the ideals are sort of a lifelong commitment. And it is a reminder that a few are out there doing a job so the rest of us don't have to worry.