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Is this coin worth more, less or the same...
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
The same
Mr_Spud
I would think it is worth more just for the history and uniqueness behind it. I can easily see why others though, would disagree.
peacockcoins
Hmmmm. Good question.
In my humble opinion (that has no real bearing), given the rarity and the provenance, and the way it is marked, I would say definitely not less.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Damn, she's purdy.....more.
If it was really him who etched it then I would say more. But, IMO, a bit less. I guess I consider it graffiti if it isn’t authenticated to be him. Maybe acceptable if it was Homer who etched it.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I skimmed thru the information provided. One sentence that I noted was: "It is impossible to say for certain exactly when the initials were placed on the edge, but Augusta might have thought it prudent to identify the coin before loaning it to the ANS, in case it was mixed up with other specimens."
Similarly, wouldn't it also be impossible to say for certain that the initials were placed on the edge by Saint Gaudens himself?
Because of this uncertainty, my answer to your question is same.
If this came from the Saint-Gaudens estate, I will say it is worth ALOT more.
In exonumia, there are examples of medals marked on the edge by John Bolen himself. To me that is akin to an "autographed copy."
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
More. Based on the lot description, it appears that the initials are responsible for the coin being “the only specimen positively traced to the estate of Augustus Saint-Gaudens “. That and the story, itself, should add value. The hard part would be to determine how much.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree with @MFeld
PMD... Post Mint Damage & should be in a PCGS Detail holder for Graffiti
my sense is it's more specific because not all collectors would tolerate it, so it should reduce demand and be worth less than an otherwise identical coin
it's tempting to think that the collectors who like it would drive up the price and make it more valuable, but at least in other assets, specificity usually diminishes value
Amazing coin. For me the engraved letters don't detract, and add to the provenance and character. If I had the kind of $$ that it would take to be a bidder, I would not hold back.
My Gold Type Set
I think that in other collectible fields, specificity/provenance of the type being discussed here, is far more likely to increase, rather then decrease the value.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It does seem that it should increase value. Even if the initials diminish the number of potential bidders, they should increase the motivation of those who remain.
I retract everything I wrote and agree with Feld
Probably more. Gorgeous coin!
More, no question.
I'm just glad they didn't put the PMD initials on it!
Imagine how unfortunate it would be for Peter Michael Davis?
Less
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Here are the money shots:
My guess is about the same but think it should be worth somewhat less.
Absolutely worth more to me.
Since when does graffiti increase the value of any rare coin? There's no proof as to who added this graffiti.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Should PCGS update this to say "Augusta St. Gaudens"?
For example, the Dexter Dollar slab insert doesn't say "D Punched on Reverse"
Can someone point out the counterstamped D for me? My eyes cannot locate it
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Interesting piece... to the right collector (big caveat) that understands the provenance, the PMD probably isn't an issue and may actually enhance the value. For someone that doesn't care about provenance... it's PMD.
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In the video the surfaces look hairlined probably keeping it from 65 quality but in this case Pf 68 is of course an appraisal.
Look in the cloud beneath the O in OF.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
How does one not care about the provenance to Augustus St Gaudens?
I’m confident that you saw die-polish lines, not hairlines.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is part of the reason for my last post, though it wouldn't make any difference to me even if there is proof. I don't care who owned a coin previously and don't consider St Gaudens famous either even if he did own it.
The reason I stated "same" is because at least it's not in a prominent area. being on the edge. As another example, the unique South Africa 1898 "Single 9" pond has the first owner's initials on the observe. It's graffiti but NGC presumably "net graded" it. My recollection is that the incident of adding the initials is confirmed but it doesn't change that it's still graffiti. I do agree though that the coin is still "market acceptable", even though most other coins would have "details" graded.
This is a strange one. It's interesting, no doubt, but who marked it and when was it marked? That mystery leaves me a little cold.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Mystery stops some people but not others.
Not the same as the Dexter/ Dunham $ at all IMO.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
As a scientist, mystery never stopped me. However, for significant discretionary funds on an object that I am likely only ever going to have an incomplete tale for is a different story.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Less...it's graffiti, damaged, details...if it was just about any other coin. IMO.
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I can understand that you don’t care who owned the coin previously. But I’m baffled by your comment that you don’t consider Augustus St. Gaudens to be famous. This is a U.S. coins forum.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But it’s not just about any other coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It may all be relative. This is from WCC in another thread.
The initials are strategically placed on the edge, so as not to be seen on either face, and they are relatively small so that they are not too noticeable on the edge either.
As such, if this piece is indeed traced back to the St. Gaudens estate, I don’t think it would have a negative impact to the value, regardless of who placed the initials there.
However, at the price point that we’re talking about here, I’m not sure whether it adds value or not. Do oddities like this add value at this price point? Good question!
For me, it's worth more as it is but it would be worth even more if it was on one of the faces.
I was looking at the slab photo and TrueView for a while wondering where the initials were!
Only if you changed your name.
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Is the edge lettering visible in that type of holder?
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The provenance adds to the value. The graffiti detracts IMHO. Will the latter overcome the former? I also do not think it should be in a PF68 holder with PMD even if it is limited to the edge. I also do not think the Dexter 1804 should be given a free pass because of rarity and provenance. Both are spectacular and important coins, but that should not be the basis for leniency in the grading room.
I would say about the same. In looking through the auction listings, there are only two PR68 of that exact style, and both trade in the millions. My experience is that the lower the base price of the coin, the higher premium the holder, provenance, etc. have, and the higher the value the less impact they have.
For example, I have seem multiple hundred dollar premiums for regency holders on cheap coins. I once had an 1870 cc $20 that came from a regency holder. I can’t imagine that anyone would have paid a premium for the holder on a six figure coin. While I like the story of the ASG, I don’t think that it impacts price, but it may impact demand at the price.
The Dexter 1804 dollar is indeed net graded. It’s only 1.5 points overgraded instead of the normal 3!
I should give CAC credit - this coin and the 1804 Dexter $1 have both very likely been to CAC and CAC has been consistent in not stickering either even though I have no doubt JA would make an offer if offered either coin.
If it were any other Novodel, would it have ended up in a straight graded holder?
Yes