Counterfeit PCGS Holder on eBay

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  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Out of curiosity...did something tip you off or did you just look up the cert to see a different hologram sticker and coin in there on HA?

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    ------report-------

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Could a re-holdering of the coin explain the differences?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Goldbully
    Goldbully Posts: 18,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2021 11:05AM
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    Not seeing a problem here.

    Am I the only one?

  • privatecoin
    privatecoin Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Different stickers on the reverse.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Different label on the front, too.

  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:
    Could a re-holdering of the coin explain the differences?

    If you look at the fields around the face, cheek, and eagle they do not look like the same coin to me at all.
    Especially if you blow up the images on HA when logged in. I'm seeing other differences as well.

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • braddick
    braddick Posts: 25,183 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The font used in the date is the 'tell'. Definitely a fake slab. Really sad, as they are getting a bit better.
    I've got three of those, and I don't dare sell them (even as counterfeits) as they are that deceptive.

  • Goldbully
    Goldbully Posts: 18,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    On second look the barcode on the slab on the right looks too big.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Kurisu said:

    @MFeld said:
    Could a re-holdering of the coin explain the differences?

    If you look at the fields around the face, cheek, and eagle they do not look like the same coin to me at all.
    Especially if you blow up the images on HA when logged in. I'm seeing other differences as well.

    Thank you. After further viewing of the images, I must say that the coins don’t appear to match.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • commoncents05
    commoncents05 Posts: 10,102 ✭✭✭
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    @Kurisu said:
    Out of curiosity...did something tip you off or did you just look up the cert to see a different hologram sticker and coin in there on HA?

    The font in the date was the big red flag for me, it is not correct.

    -Paul

    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • commoncents05
    commoncents05 Posts: 10,102 ✭✭✭
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    I messaged the seller and let him know. He took the listing down after looking and agreeing that it is counterfeit. Here's his reply:

    After looking into it, I agree with you. I had NO IDEA. The coin honestly looks real and the mirrors are great. Also the grade seems to be close to if not 64, so not sure why someone would put the coin, if it's real, which I believe it is, in a fake holder. I've taken it down from Ebay.

    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    As soon as I saw the one on eBay, I could tell that the printing on the label was not right. The fake is too dark.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • yspsales
    yspsales Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wow!

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • WAYNEAS
    WAYNEAS Posts: 7,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Both bar codes do scan correctly
    There is no true view available
    I cannot get a good visual view of the bad holder itself

    Scary

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @vent1020 said:
    I'm the one that had the coin up on Ebay. First off, I want to thank Paul for contacting me. At first, I was like "No, it's not fake," but then after seeing the comparison to Heritage, it's obvious. Kind of bummed as I did pay quite a bit for it. The consensus is that the coin is real and it's actually not a bad looking coin with pretty good details and nice mirrors. Maybe only PL though and a 62 or 63, as was pointed out by another forum's poster that had contacted me. I'll just crack it out and hold onto it as one of the few coins I am not selling off. These forums are always great and I have used them over the years. Thanks everyone.

    Dave

    Dave, I’m glad to see you’re one of the good guys. Not all sellers in your position accept the truth and some of the ones who do, try to re-sell the coin, anyway. So you know, I’m the other forum poster who’s been in touch with you.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • vent1020
    vent1020 Posts: 7 ✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @vent1020 said:
    I'm the one that had the coin up on Ebay. First off, I want to thank Paul for contacting me. At first, I was like "No, it's not fake," but then after seeing the comparison to Heritage, it's obvious. Kind of bummed as I did pay quite a bit for it. The consensus is that the coin is real and it's actually not a bad looking coin with pretty good details and nice mirrors. Maybe only PL though and a 62 or 63, as was pointed out by another forum's poster that had contacted me. I'll just crack it out and hold onto it as one of the few coins I am not selling off. These forums are always great and I have used them over the years. Thanks everyone.

    Dave

    Dave, I’m glad to see you’re one of the good guys. Not all sellers in your position accept the truth and some of the ones who do, try to re-sell the coin, anyway. So you know, I’m the other forum poster who’s been in touch with you.

    Thanks again for your help!

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Good to see things worked out well- except for vent1020, who gets stuck with the coin, I guess. For the record, in my post above, my intent wasn't to question the OP's claim, it was just an observation.

  • braddick
    braddick Posts: 25,183 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wow, that is a wonderful seller. Thanks, Dave, for your frankness and honesty. A few months ago, I reported to the owner/seller on eBay what I thought was an obvious counterfeit coin in a fake PCGS slab and the response from that seller was to inform me he thought the Heritage coin I referred him to was counterfeit, and his was the genuine one. All I could do was shake my head (and report then to eBay).

  • vent1020
    vent1020 Posts: 7 ✭✭
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    And I know you guys don't know me from Jack, but just in case anyone had any doubts that I wasn't sincere about cracking it out......

    It really is a nice looking coin. :smiley:

  • vent1020
    vent1020 Posts: 7 ✭✭
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    I know it's a counterfeit holder, because it was the easiest holder, I've ever cracked open :wink:

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very interesting ... and scary how good the fakes are becoming. Great reaction from the seller....Cheers, RickO

  • oreville
    oreville Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Saving this slab instead of cracking it out might have more benefits in protecting buyers as well as PCGS by creating a "house" of counterfeit slabs to alerts all as to the existence and "look" of counterfeit slabs.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The easiest "tell" for me is that the "C" in coin is over the 2 in the barcode on the left, and between on the right.

    I really get bummed out when I see this stuff.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    I really get bummed out when I see this stuff.
    Pete

    .
    +1

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Many years ago, there was a guy who faked the PCGS slab and put genuine coins in them. As I remember it, his grading was off, but not ridiculous. PCGS was able to shut him down. Perhaps we have another one of those operators.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2021 5:37AM
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    @oreville said:
    Saving this slab instead of cracking it out might have more benefits in protecting buyers as well as PCGS by creating a "house" of counterfeit slabs to alerts all as to the existence and "look" of counterfeit slabs.

    There are more than enough other counterfeit slabs and grading labels to choose from. And since in this case, the coin is genuine, I imagine that the owner might want to be able to get something for it. I think your suggestion would have been a very unfair imposition on him.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • oreville
    oreville Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2021 11:31PM
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    mark,

    the coin can be removed from the counterfeit slab after pictures are taken to be placed in a special training website to help collectors learn about counterfeit slabs..

    some collectors do not mind keeping the coin in a counterfeit slab..

    just a question.
    you are aware of the current value of an overgraded generic $20 Saint or a generic $1 Morgan Silver Dollar in a counterfeit PCGS rattler slab.?

    some collectors might be as excited about locating an original and completely sealed counterfeit rattler slab as locating a 1913 Liberty Nickel? !

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • Swampboy
    Swampboy Posts: 13,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2021 12:32AM
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    @vent1020 said:
    I know it's a counterfeit holder, because it was the easiest holder, I've ever cracked open :wink:

    Well done and

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

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