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“Toned” coins
smh
Posts: 38 ✭
Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?
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Toning is tarnish, damage, why it is popular now who knows.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I am not a toning fan, but a lot of people like toned coins.
Toning is attractive tarnish. Tarnish is ugly tarnish.
Generally speaking, toning is evidence of a coins originality and can impart a favorable patina, or color in some cases. A coin that has aged gracefully and naturally without corrosion or environmental damage is ideal.
There are some collectors that prefer bright coins with no toning but cleaning or polishing a coin is taboo unless performing for conservation and in expert hands.
Several environmental factors play into toning.
One example is in Morgan Silver dollars that were commonly transported in canvas bags. The bags were sometimes sprinkled with sulphur to deter rodents and this, along with the fabric would sometimes result in colorful and even desirable displays.
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Toning can add beauty but can also tone ugly. The beautifully tone coins will bring a premium in most cases.
Problem is discerning between natural and artificial toning.
Toned is nice but I don't ever pay a premium.
Sometimes they bring a premium when I sell
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Many toned coins can bring big premiums. Specialists work their angle on toned material.
You sound as if you don't like toning. But you know enough about coins to understand why some people appreciate it. And it's not just popular (among some of us) "now".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A coin with toning can mean it has not been dipped in acid, wiped, cleaned or otherwise had the surfaces compromised. But it doesn’t have to mean that.
Coins with fabulous original toning aren’t just popular today. They’ve been popular for decades. Coins with unattractive toning aren’t all that popular today or yesterday. A colorful toning can set a coin apart from a generic blast white copy - think of how many blast white Morgan dollars there are.
However, in the pursuit of “blast white” or “no tarnish” many coins have also been damaged or ruined by careless cleaning, harsh cleaning, or not judging when it would even benefit a coin to remove the tarnish.
In the end it is all about eye appeal. That’s all anyone needs to really know, really.
I'll happily pay you way less for those toned coins.
How would it get toned? Yes, exposure to something. It is typically the storage medium (albums, mint bags, paper envelopes, etc.) where sulphur and/or other things can interact with the coin surface. It can also be artificially applied with various chemicals and heat. Some ways of selling coins from the government and/or vendor lent itself to toning (classic commemoratives and GSA dollars previously in mint bags being good examples) because of the materials used.
The value is also in the eye appeal. Negative eye appeal/unattractive toning is at a discount. Positive eye appeal/attractive toning may be a premium of varying amounts.
How could someone not like this?
Unmolested examples of blast white antebellum coins don’t exist in any appreciable quantities.
Very cool fact, re: sprinkling sulphur to deter rodents. I never knew that.
My guess is that smoking was not allowed in the vault...great story.
CC
I am a big fan of NT coins, especially with vivid color. A few examples-
Tarnished coins can be natural or artificial...and with the premiums offered for really colorful tarnish, a lot of AT is on the market. Done well by experts, it will be undistinguishable from natural tarnish. Personally, I do not care for tarnish of any type on coins. That being said, natural accumulations from commerce on older coins is acceptable to me...some of the old circam coins can be really nice. Cheers, RickO
I can honestly say that I have never bought a coin because it has nice toning and will not pay extra for one. I do though have toned coins in my collections.
Kennedys are my quest...
Toned coins hold value when the toning is eye-appealing and natural. Toned coin collectors can usually tell between an artificial and naturally toned coin; although in many cases it can be debated. They are acceptable in collecting because most collectors find appeal in nicely toned coins, therefore there is more demand for them; and thus the price goes up. The same can apply the other way, where a coin with ugly/terminal toning will result in a lower price/net market grade.
Examples of bad/ugly toning:
Examples of good/attractive toning:
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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
If we all liked the same thing that would be incredibly boring.
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@YoloBagels: I really like the first Morgan you posted! The contrast between the smooth bright cheek and the dark crescent toning is quite dramatic. I would pay a premium for that coin.
Variety is the spice of life. Live and let live.
Coin collectors have valued beautiful originally toned coins for generations. Take a look at the greatest collections ever assembled by the the most sophisticated collectors, and the top coins in those collections are untouched, uncleaned, TONED masterpieces. Cleaning coins impairs the luster, and degrades the value....It also erases the ability to track a coin's background provenance and originality. All the great collectors know that originality is key! There is no question about that fact. Original luster, and original proof surfaces are simply more desirable to knowledgeable collectors.
Yeah it's actually not really a bad coin. I listed it on there cause the black color would turn many people off, though it does appear to be very high grade.
My eBay page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/alvareznumismatics
Yes it's about aesthetics.
Also the uniqueness implies value as perhaps you could say a "natural painting".
I'm the least skilled guy here but that 1822 has to be AT. Heck it almost looks like someone painted on the toning using Photoshop.
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To answer the original question without getting into the subjective debate of what is nice looking, toned coins are acceptable because they are made of metals that tone by their very nature.
Coins are made out of metals that are reactive by their chemical nature and the normal reactions of those metals with other chemicals that they come in contact with just happen to produce colors. Pure metals are like vacuums that actually attract the chemicals they come in contact with in either solid, liquid or gaseous forms. It is an unnatural unstable state for the metals to be in when they are untoned. If toned coins wouldn’t be acceptable for collectors there would have to be great efforts made to keep them from contacting reactive chemicals that are even present in air.
Here’s a good write up on why/how silver in particular tones https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/workshops-conferences/regional-workshops-conservation/understanding-silver-tarnish.html
Mr_Spud
@YoloBagels,
That Boone you’re showing has very unique toning. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it before. Also looks like it could be a result of (Tab Toning.) Is it?
Not sure, it comes from the PCGS website (https://www.pcgs.com/eyeappeal). They specifically listed it as "UGLY."
My eBay page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/alvareznumismatics
I 100% agree😂
Toning occurs naturally over time. It is mostly the result of oxygen and/or sulfur reacting with the coin's metal.
This is why:
I understand that not everyone will care for coins with this sort of look, and that's fine. As has been said, tastes vary. I probably dislike 95% of toned coins. Some just aren't attractive. Some don't complement the design, and some don't look natural. The ones that pass the test can be pretty darn interesting. YMMV.
I guess they’re just neat.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
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This just arrived. There are up to 13 alternating (if this is the word) bands of cyan, magenta, reds, violets and bright yellow and orange gold from 8 to 3:00 obv.
I'm so awe-struck how this could happen and how well deep-dished the strike is! Tremendous eye appeal on this one.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
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That is, indeed, a beauty leothelyon!
Yeah, the TrueView doesn't capture the nine colorful rings/bands in the peripherals of IGWT, LIBERTY. I need to borrow my daughter's camera again.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
If you enjoy toned coins, please go here: https://www.money.org/commemorative-coins
My “sense” is that most knowledgeable collectors prefer toning, as it demonstrates “originality”. However, there’s a large, usually silent group, that prefers their coins untoned and very highly lustrous, particularly 20th century silver. As as generalization, I recognize that most of the coins in my collection have previously been dipped, but obviously gently enough that they all still merit CAC stickers. Collectors that prefer toning are often surprised at the strong prices that high grade untoned coins often bring at auction. Many of us appreciate having “old” coins that look like they just came off the press, where the design can be seen just as the mint engraver envisioned. As I believe we all agree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
It is oxidation that can be colorful and attractive, especially if original, and not too dark.
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I own that coin, it's anything but AT or "painted on",
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@Rexford OMG that Diocletianus is amazing! I have never seen such a nicely toned one!
Toning doesn't always guarantee that the coin has original surfaces. Many coins have been dipped decades ago and have acquired what is called "secondary toning" and it's frequently impossible to tell original toning from secondary toning.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Taco Bell sauce will turn any coin into a "market acceptable" toner. The kids will pay premiums for them, just remember to rinse off the sauce. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
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Never heard that one before. I've heard that Taco Bell napkins will tone coins but it takes several months.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I’m glad you hadn’t heard it before. Because as written, it’s so all-encompassing that it amounts to bologna.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes! Add some sause to the napkin and it's MONSTER TIME. GoodLuck!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Toned coins can be worth more or less than an untoned coin. It comes down to how it looks.
Toned coins are priced like art so the price can be wildly different than an untoned coin which tracks to price guides better.
Here's one of mine. Toning also makes the coin more unique as there are fewer coins that have a certain look than when they are untoned.
Oxidation driven by exposure to air, especially air with sulfur.
The first one in my Picasso.
This toned coin is the centerpiece of my collection.
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