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“Toned” coins

Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

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  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am not a toning fan, but a lot of people like toned coins.

    image
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Toning can add beauty but can also tone ugly. The beautifully tone coins will bring a premium in most cases.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Problem is discerning between natural and artificial toning.

    Toned is nice but I don't ever pay a premium.

    Sometimes they bring a premium when I sell :)

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  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021 11:14AM

    Many toned coins can bring big premiums. Specialists work their angle on toned material.

    Coins & Currency
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said:
    Toning is tarnish, damage, why it is popular now who knows.

    You sound as if you don't like toning. But you know enough about coins to understand why some people appreciate it. And it's not just popular (among some of us) "now".

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A coin with toning can mean it has not been dipped in acid, wiped, cleaned or otherwise had the surfaces compromised. But it doesn’t have to mean that.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021 11:53AM

    @smh said:
    Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

    How would it get toned? Yes, exposure to something. It is typically the storage medium (albums, mint bags, paper envelopes, etc.) where sulphur and/or other things can interact with the coin surface. It can also be artificially applied with various chemicals and heat. Some ways of selling coins from the government and/or vendor lent itself to toning (classic commemoratives and GSA dollars previously in mint bags being good examples) because of the materials used.

    The value is also in the eye appeal. Negative eye appeal/unattractive toning is at a discount. Positive eye appeal/attractive toning may be a premium of varying amounts.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,166 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unmolested examples of blast white antebellum coins don’t exist in any appreciable quantities.

  • Wahoo554Wahoo554 Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @nwcoast said:
    Generally speaking, toning is evidence of a coins originality and can impart a favorable patina, or color in some cases. A coin that has aged gracefully and naturally without corrosion or environmental damage is ideal.

    There are some collectors that prefer bright coins with no toning but cleaning or polishing a coin is taboo unless performing for conservation and in expert hands.

    Several environmental factors play into toning.
    One example is in Morgan Silver dollars that were commonly transported in canvas bags. The bags were sometimes sprinkled with sulphur to deter rodents and this, along with the fabric would sometimes result in colorful and even desirable displays.

    Very cool fact, re: sprinkling sulphur to deter rodents. I never knew that.

  • CCDollarCCDollar Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wahoo554 said:

    @nwcoast said:
    Generally speaking, toning is evidence of a coins originality and can impart a favorable patina, or color in some cases. A coin that has aged gracefully and naturally without corrosion or environmental damage is ideal.

    There are some collectors that prefer bright coins with no toning but cleaning or polishing a coin is taboo unless performing for conservation and in expert hands.

    Several environmental factors play into toning.
    One example is in Morgan Silver dollars that were commonly transported in canvas bags. The bags were sometimes sprinkled with sulphur to deter rodents and this, along with the fabric would sometimes result in colorful and even desirable displays.

    Very cool fact, re: sprinkling sulphur to deter rodents. I never knew that.

    My guess is that smoking was not allowed in the vault...great story.

    CC

    Nickel Triumph...My Led Zepps
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tarnished coins can be natural or artificial...and with the premiums offered for really colorful tarnish, a lot of AT is on the market. Done well by experts, it will be undistinguishable from natural tarnish. Personally, I do not care for tarnish of any type on coins. That being said, natural accumulations from commerce on older coins is acceptable to me...some of the old circam coins can be really nice. Cheers, RickO

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smh said:
    Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

    I can honestly say that I have never bought a coin because it has nice toning and will not pay extra for one. I do though have toned coins in my collections.

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

    If we all liked the same thing that would be incredibly boring.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @YoloBagels: I really like the first Morgan you posted! The contrast between the smooth bright cheek and the dark crescent toning is quite dramatic. I would pay a premium for that coin.

    Higashiyama
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Variety is the spice of life. Live and let live.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • Eldorado9Eldorado9 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smh said:
    Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

    Coin collectors have valued beautiful originally toned coins for generations. Take a look at the greatest collections ever assembled by the the most sophisticated collectors, and the top coins in those collections are untouched, uncleaned, TONED masterpieces. Cleaning coins impairs the luster, and degrades the value....It also erases the ability to track a coin's background provenance and originality. All the great collectors know that originality is key! There is no question about that fact. Original luster, and original proof surfaces are simply more desirable to knowledgeable collectors.

  • YoloBagelsYoloBagels Posts: 154 ✭✭✭

    @Higashiyama said:
    @YoloBagels: I really like the first Morgan you posted! The contrast between the smooth bright cheek and the dark crescent toning is quite dramatic. I would pay a premium for that coin.

    Yeah it's actually not really a bad coin. I listed it on there cause the black color would turn many people off, though it does appear to be very high grade.

  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes it's about aesthetics.

    Also the uniqueness implies value as perhaps you could say a "natural painting".

  • FredFFredF Posts: 526 ✭✭✭

    Examples of good/attractive toning:

    I'm the least skilled guy here but that 1822 has to be AT. Heck it almost looks like someone painted on the toning using Photoshop.

    Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,295 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021 12:03PM

    To answer the original question without getting into the subjective debate of what is nice looking, toned coins are acceptable because they are made of metals that tone by their very nature.

    Coins are made out of metals that are reactive by their chemical nature and the normal reactions of those metals with other chemicals that they come in contact with just happen to produce colors. Pure metals are like vacuums that actually attract the chemicals they come in contact with in either solid, liquid or gaseous forms. It is an unnatural unstable state for the metals to be in when they are untoned. If toned coins wouldn’t be acceptable for collectors there would have to be great efforts made to keep them from contacting reactive chemicals that are even present in air.

    Here’s a good write up on why/how silver in particular tones https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/workshops-conferences/regional-workshops-conservation/understanding-silver-tarnish.html

    Mr_Spud

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021 11:59AM

    @YoloBagels,
    That Boone you’re showing has very unique toning. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it before. Also looks like it could be a result of (Tab Toning.) Is it?

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • YoloBagelsYoloBagels Posts: 154 ✭✭✭

    @crazyhounddog said:
    @YoloBagels,
    That Boone you’re showing has very unique toning. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it before. Also looks like it could be a result of (Tab Toning.) Is it?

    Not sure, it comes from the PCGS website (https://www.pcgs.com/eyeappeal). They specifically listed it as "UGLY."

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @YoloBagels said:

    @crazyhounddog said:
    @YoloBagels,
    That Boone you’re showing has very unique toning. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it before. Also looks like it could be a result of (Tab Toning.) Is it?

    Not sure, it comes from the PCGS website (https://www.pcgs.com/eyeappeal). They specifically listed it as "UGLY."

    I 100% agree😂

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Toning occurs naturally over time. It is mostly the result of oxygen and/or sulfur reacting with the coin's metal.

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is, indeed, a beauty leothelyon!

  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    That is, indeed, a beauty leothelyon!

    Yeah, the TrueView doesn't capture the nine colorful rings/bands in the peripherals of IGWT, LIBERTY. I need to borrow my daughter's camera again.

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • DreamcrusherDreamcrusher Posts: 210 ✭✭✭✭

    If you enjoy toned coins, please go here: https://www.money.org/commemorative-coins

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,488 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My “sense” is that most knowledgeable collectors prefer toning, as it demonstrates “originality”. However, there’s a large, usually silent group, that prefers their coins untoned and very highly lustrous, particularly 20th century silver. As as generalization, I recognize that most of the coins in my collection have previously been dipped, but obviously gently enough that they all still merit CAC stickers. Collectors that prefer toning are often surprised at the strong prices that high grade untoned coins often bring at auction. Many of us appreciate having “old” coins that look like they just came off the press, where the design can be seen just as the mint engraver envisioned. As I believe we all agree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

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  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is oxidation that can be colorful and attractive, especially if original, and not too dark.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredF said:

    Examples of good/attractive toning:

    I'm the least skilled guy here but that 1822 has to be AT. Heck it almost looks like someone painted on the toning using Photoshop.

    I own that coin, it's anything but AT or "painted on",

  • 1984worldcoins1984worldcoins Posts: 615 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Rexford OMG that Diocletianus is amazing! I have never seen such a nicely toned one!

    Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,096 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Toning doesn't always guarantee that the coin has original surfaces. Many coins have been dipped decades ago and have acquired what is called "secondary toning" and it's frequently impossible to tell original toning from secondary toning.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,886 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smh said:
    Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

    Taco Bell sauce will turn any coin into a "market acceptable" toner. The kids will pay premiums for them, just remember to rinse off the sauce. RGDS!

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,096 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    @smh said:
    Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

    Taco Bell sauce will turn any coin into a "market acceptable" toner. The kids will pay premiums for them, just remember to rinse off the sauce. RGDS!

    Never heard that one before. I've heard that Taco Bell napkins will tone coins but it takes several months.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @blitzdude said:

    @smh said:
    Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

    Taco Bell sauce will turn any coin into a "market acceptable" toner. The kids will pay premiums for them, just remember to rinse off the sauce. RGDS!

    Never heard that one before. I've heard that Taco Bell napkins will tone coins but it takes several months.

    I’m glad you hadn’t heard it before. Because as written, it’s so all-encompassing that it amounts to bologna.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,886 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @blitzdude said:

    @smh said:
    Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less. How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

    Taco Bell sauce will turn any coin into a "market acceptable" toner. The kids will pay premiums for them, just remember to rinse off the sauce. RGDS!

    Never heard that one before. I've heard that Taco Bell napkins will tone coins but it takes several months.

    Yes! Add some sause to the napkin and it's MONSTER TIME. GoodLuck!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2021 7:16AM

    @smh said:
    Can anyone explain why toned coins are still acceptable in collecting? I have some and I thought their value would be less.

    Toned coins can be worth more or less than an untoned coin. It comes down to how it looks.

    Toned coins are priced like art so the price can be wildly different than an untoned coin which tracks to price guides better.

    Here's one of mine. Toning also makes the coin more unique as there are fewer coins that have a certain look than when they are untoned.

    How would a coin get toned - exposure to something?

    Oxidation driven by exposure to air, especially air with sulfur.

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