What I thought was a funny story....turns out to be pretty frightening.
Downtown1974
Posts: 6,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
While at work today my wife sent me a picture text message of a package that came in today.
She wrote “this came in for you today” and it was a nicely packaged coin I won last week.
Well about 10 minutes after she sent me that pic message, she sent me another message...”is this what you ordered?” It was a screenshot of the TrueView and all of the info of the coin from the PCGS website.
She was able to get all of the information on what was in the package just by taking a picture of the sealed package. At first she was creeped out by it, but I find it alarming.
The coin was slabbed in the new anti counterfeit QR code slabs, but it can be read through a bubble mailer???? So can anybody do this during the shipping process?
Anybody else have this happen before?
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Comments
Was it the new NFC tag? If so, that may be readable from packaging depending upon how it’s packaged.
It is a new NFC tag. That’s very concerning to me that it can be read through the packaging.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
It was a cheapie that I needed for my type set but still concerning nonetheless.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
It is proximity based so it makes sense that it can happen. That is a side effect probably not considered. Next time I order something with that tag, I’ll have to see if it allows enough proximity to scan it.
@TurtleCat yea I’d be curious to know. It is in a padded mailer. Not sure if it’s wrapped in anything else. I won’t be home until morning to see it.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Would wrapping the slab in aluminum foil block the signal?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A Faraday bag or the like could prevent this.
interesting... I figured out how to turn NFC reader on my phone and then went to work. It took 12 USPS small flat rate boxes (thickness) before my NFC reader stopped picking it up. That was just a tad shy of 1".
I knew my two engineering degrees would come in handy one day!
Yes it does. It also works for blocking the government from reading your mind.
But if I wrap my packages in aluminum foil, what do I wear on my head?
thx for the PSA, I do not completely trust postal contractors
Perhaps a thread like this should be deleted
What for? It seems like it may be good food for thought when shipping a slab with NFC technology.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Thieves would love to know this info, and the very, very few that work for the post office, watch out if they find out.
Maybe some phones are more sensitive than others. For the NFC my phone has to be right on it.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Given that RFID and NFC technology gets used for lots of things, I would assume that higher end thieves scan things all the time.
You're supposed to use tin foil on your head!
That’s just stupid. You put it inside your hat so the government agents can’t see it and take it off your head. 🤪
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
Major implications if this is true.
POTD material right there!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
...too much tech and not enough cowbell
And here I thought you were going to tell us that you wife discovered how much you actually spent on your coin!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
This could be a problem, thanks for posting this @downtown1974
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
It's a very serious security issue when any postal worker can use his phone to see what's inside the package. PCGS needs to address this issue ASAP. It's more important now than ever before to fully insure your PCGS slabbed coins with this new technology when mailing them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Not good.
Agreed, this just out.
Postal worker in Massachusetts stole $2,000 worth of gift cards from people’s mail, authorities say
Updated Feb 10, 2021; Posted Feb 10, 2021
A U.S. Postal Service mail carrier in Massachusetts is facing a federal charge after authorities said he stole gift cards from people’s mail.
Brian Thibodeau, 48, was indicted on one count of theft of mail by an employee of the U.S. Postal Service and was arrested Thursday. He appeared in Boston federal court and was released on conditions.
“Beginning in 2001, Thibodeau worked for many years as a letter carrier in the Saugus Post Office,” according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office. “It is alleged that, in 2020, Thibodeau stole customers’ gift cards sent in the mail and spent them for his personal use.”
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Hmmm...that explains why I'm still hearing voices.
He'll get fired but I doubt he'll get any jail time.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
One of my avocations happens to be as a locksmith. Years ago I learned that if it is devised by the mind of man, it can be foiled by the mind of man. That applies to locks or other methodology for security or information transfer. Some seem surprised at this, but thieves have been surreptitiously scanning wallets for RFID cards for many years. Really, it will not be a surprise to many, and a discussion here certainly will not inform those already criminally inclined. Best to bring it to light and take the proper precautions. Doesn't everyone carry an RFID prevention card in their wallet now? If not, it should be standard practice for all. Cheers, RickO
I’ve contacted PCGS about this issue just to make them aware of a potential issue that could arise.
I am just trying to raise awareness to my fellow collectors - this is not a jab at our host as I feel they are the benchmark for third party grading.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
It’s also known as the bird feeder effect. You only have so much time devising a way to keep a squirrel from a bird feeder. The squirrels, on the other hand, have all the time in the world to devise a way to get the food. They simply have more time than you do and more motivation. Same with many criminals who are looking for more than a smash and grab. They spend their lives scheming and planning on how to steal. Most of us don’t spend much time on protecting against it.
On an unrelated note, I got an RFID blocking wallet a number of years ago. It actually has been the best wallet I’ve ever owned. It’s kept its shape, been in good condition, and done its job flawlessly. I actually enjoy that aspect of it more than the RFID, lol.
@TurtleCat ... I devised a method to keep the squirrels out of the bird feeder years ago... One try... Simply put a slinky over the pole... Problem solved. Squirrels have never circumvented it....through several generations of squirrels.
Cheers, RickO
I’m obviously not sure, but I imagine our host is aware of this and have considered it in their risk/benefit/ cost analysis. Obviously RFID technology as it relates to valuables in the mail goes way beyond certified coins.
As for what to do about it..... I imagine if it becomes a widespread problem we’ll see Faraday sleeves being used to ship coins. As has been said, a savvy thief doesn’t need a scanner - simply looking at the box and shipping or return address is often enough.
I agree this COULD be a problem. But, as BryceM said, with the shipping or return address on the pkg. thieves already have the means to I.D. potential high value items. My question for all, this Faraday sleeve or RFID technology that several speak of. What would be the cost to provide this ? Possible option by our hosts ?
I would be more concerned with my wife knowing the contents than my mail carrier.
Honestly, I don't think mail thieves are specifically looking for coins. They can easily tell just based on the tier of service and insurance value that there is something valuable inside.
I will definitely test my next NFC chipped package.
Hopefully one comes today.
Kennedys are my quest...
It just takes one accidental discovery for a high volume dealer or company like CAC before the word gets out. Just like what happened to the OP. I imagine a nice, shiny gold piece would be pretty tempting.
For a second.................I thought you were going to tell me the caliber.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
They may not climb it but if they are able to jump to it they’ll knock out seed left and right.
@TurtleCat .... Prior planning prevents piss poor performance. I take such things into consideration and placed the feeders accordingly. Cheers, RickO
@Downtown1974 - This is disturbing, to say the least. Thank you for posting this.
My OmniCoin Collection
My BankNoteBank Collection
Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
The six P's ... man, haven't heard that in a while!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Shielding materials are not inexpensive.
I am going to start using aluminum foil on new slabbed expensive coins
Insurance is the clear solution to the situation, which could be seen as the price we pay to better control counterfeiting and other types of fraud. Some interesting scenarios come to mind.
A clever thief could scan lots of packages and select only high value packages that contained bullion type coins that would be unidentifiable once cracked out, and highly liquid as well.
Another that comes to mind is having a couple of folks stand at the exit of a coin show and reading what coins you are carrying out as a means of picking targets for robbery.
The basic NFC tag can be read only at a distance of a few inches by a typical smartphone reader.
It's not complex to make a high-powered reader that will work at a longer distance.
We all know how the WiFi signal doesn't make it to the other side of the house, right? A friend of mine once owned the WiFi long-distance record using an ordinary WiFi card and a special antenna. 110Km. By today's standards he's a piker - the record is now 304Km.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
damn! That's impressive.
I guess I don't see the problem. I don't think a postal employee is going to have the time to sift through a stack of packages from Stacks Bowers to figure out which has the best coin to steal, or, similarly, a stack of eBay packages to determine which contain coins. They'd have far more success either grabbing one at random from time to time to avoid suspicion or the whole stack, and discarding duds. Of course if the whole postal unit is crooked then the thief would have time to complete his set of Mercury Dimes, but we'd have far bigger problems.
Too funny. I do the same thing. If it wasn't dark I would snap a pic
Screw that. I just went outside. Until Operation Slinky it was Squirrels 31- Justacommeman 0.
Now every once in awhile I see a squirrel take a header and I always tell him to make sure to go tell all your friends
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......