@MDLB said:
I don't think I'd use Brian for my taxes.
Hey they are our future let life show them the hardships most like to learn like that. Some listen but not many he will feel the exact same when his time comes to teach younger people it's always the same. Like I said nothing new under the sun. Same old sun just new humans.
I own many many modern rookies like 86 Fleer Jordan and 1979 OPC Gretzky but paid 500$ each one is a PSA 7 and the other a PSA 8. Know when to buy and know when to sell. They where excellent buys at those prices. Not so much anymore.
Some are going to make out like thieves in the next few months and watch it all crash and burn. Not all but a large part. If I where in your position I would be thinking like the thieves not that I think it's OK morally but one has to take advantage when money in concerned better than being the victim.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
Where was this advice when the mantle sold for 5 million?
No where the Mantle is the face of the entire hobby same as the T206 Wagner. Same as the Mona Lisa in paintings. Like Superman and Batman or more like Spiderman and Batman with the current generation.
Explain this to us since you are the self proclaimed knower of all things modem per your post above. The Mantle PSA rookie is the gold standard when it comes to collecting. Has been sought out for decades in all grades, and every year Mantle was the most expansive card in every set except for the top rookie - Yaz, Rose, Ryan...
There are off the top of my head 31 PSA 8’s and 6 PSA 9 examples so it is very rare and in high demand. You don’t sneak up on a Mantle rookie or any nice Mantle from any year and get a steal. Jordan rookies are everywhere - 300 PSA 10’s, 2700+ PSA 9’s, and 7000+ PSA 8’s. Plus many more in BGS holders and raw plus unopened. Supply is no issue - check eBay and you can buy any grade you want in volume. No way to question the scarcity of Mantle and lack of it for Jordan.
Nobody questions both are the pinnacle for collectors in their given sport. Most collectors want a Mantle rookie and most hoops collectors want a Jordan rookie. Mantle prices have always been high and Jordan has been; however, for a PSA 8 Jordan to go to $25-35k from $10k in one month or from $6k to $25-35k in two months makes no sense. Or to go from $2400 this same time last year to today’s prices makes zero sense unless there is manipulation. Tell me what events have happened in the last 12 months where people all of the sudden discovered Jordan was the GOAT and that his cards were now worth 10x more in value? Plus there is no scarcity like Mantle, Aaron, Ruth.... Modern collectors and sneakerbois can manipulate the market to make a buck, and us “old” guys who are not so old can warn people to not get duped. Why has Mantle not seen 10x rise in his PSA 8 rookies from $500k to $5 million in the same grade 🤔
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
Where was this advice when the mantle sold for 5 million?
No where the Mantle is the face of the entire hobby same as the T206 Wagner. Same as the Mona Lisa in paintings. Like Superman and Batman or more like Spiderman and Batman with the current generation.
Explain this to us since you are the self proclaimed knower of all things modem per your post above. The Mantle PSA rookie is the gold standard when it comes to collecting. Has been sought out for decades in all grades, and every year Mantle was the most expansive card in every set except for the top rookie - Yaz, Rose, Ryan...
There are off the top of my head 31 PSA 8’s and 6 PSA 9 examples so it is very rare and in high demand. You don’t sneak up on a Mantle rookie or any nice Mantle from any year and get a steal. Jordan rookies are everywhere - 300 PSA 10’s, 2700+ PSA 9’s, and 7000+ PSA 8’s. Plus many more in BGS holders and raw plus unopened. Supply is no issue - check eBay and you can buy any grade you want in volume. No way to question the scarcity of Mantle and lack of it for Jordan.
Nobody questions both are the pinnacle for collectors in their given sport. Most collectors want a Mantle rookie and most hoops collectors want a Jordan rookie. Mantle prices have always been high and Jordan has been; however, for a PSA 8 Jordan to go to $25-35k from $10k in one month or from $6k to $25-35k in two months makes no sense. Or to go from $2400 this same time last year to today’s prices makes zero sense unless there is manipulation. Tell me what events have happened in the last 12 months where people all of the sudden discovered Jordan was the GOAT and that his cards were now worth 10x more in value? Plus there is no scarcity like Mantle, Aaron, Ruth.... Modern collectors and sneakerbois can manipulate the market to make a buck, and us “old” guys who are not so old can warn people to not get duped. Why has Mantle not seen 10x rise in his PSA 8 rookies from $500k to $5 million in the same grade 🤔
We are on the same page so I don't understand your question?
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
That's your choice to invest in a player that (a) is irrelevant today and (b) you didn't see play. That's not what today's market wants. I would never want to pay money for that card. It doesn't speak to me. At. All.
Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of people adored (and still do) Michael Jordan. His global appeal and fame is unrivaled (except by perhaps LeBron James). Decades after his retirement, Michael Jordan remains an icon. The global demand for his shoes is unparalleled.
If you don't want to buy, as I said, that's your choice. But to denigrate someone else's passion is the antithesis of what collectors are supposed to abide by.
See it's facts like these that make it impossible for me to believe that soccer is the most popular sport in the world. With China, India, and the U.S. essentially ignoring the sport and countries the size of the Netherlands being globally elite, it just doesn't seem likely. Soccer is huge n Europe and Latin America, but most of the rest of us don't care much.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
Where was this advice when the mantle sold for 5 million?
No where the Mantle is the face of the entire hobby same as the T206 Wagner. Same as the Mona Lisa in paintings. Like Superman and Batman or more like Spiderman and Batman with the current generation.
Explain this to us since you are the self proclaimed knower of all things modem per your post above. The Mantle PSA rookie is the gold standard when it comes to collecting. Has been sought out for decades in all grades, and every year Mantle was the most expansive card in every set except for the top rookie - Yaz, Rose, Ryan...
There are off the top of my head 31 PSA 8’s and 6 PSA 9 examples so it is very rare and in high demand. You don’t sneak up on a Mantle rookie or any nice Mantle from any year and get a steal. Jordan rookies are everywhere - 300 PSA 10’s, 2700+ PSA 9’s, and 7000+ PSA 8’s. Plus many more in BGS holders and raw plus unopened. Supply is no issue - check eBay and you can buy any grade you want in volume. No way to question the scarcity of Mantle and lack of it for Jordan.
Nobody questions both are the pinnacle for collectors in their given sport. Most collectors want a Mantle rookie and most hoops collectors want a Jordan rookie. Mantle prices have always been high and Jordan has been; however, for a PSA 8 Jordan to go to $25-35k from $10k in one month or from $6k to $25-35k in two months makes no sense. Or to go from $2400 this same time last year to today’s prices makes zero sense unless there is manipulation. Tell me what events have happened in the last 12 months where people all of the sudden discovered Jordan was the GOAT and that his cards were now worth 10x more in value? Plus there is no scarcity like Mantle, Aaron, Ruth.... Modern collectors and sneakerbois can manipulate the market to make a buck, and us “old” guys who are not so old can warn people to not get duped. Why has Mantle not seen 10x rise in his PSA 8 rookies from $500k to $5 million in the same grade 🤔
We are on the same page so I don't understand your question? As for why PSA 8 Mantle's sell for $5 million I don't know maybe one day most likely not.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
That's your choice to invest in a player that (a) is irrelevant today and (b) you didn't see play. That's not what today's market wants. I would never want to pay money for that card. It doesn't speak to me. At. All.
Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of people adored (and still do) Michael Jordan. His global appeal and fame is unrivaled (except by perhaps LeBron James). Decades after his retirement, Michael Jordan remains an icon. The global demand for his shoes is unparalleled.
If you don't want to buy, as I said, that's your choice. But to denigrate someone else's passion is the antithesis of what collectors are supposed to abide by.
See it's facts like these that make it impossible for me to believe that soccer is the most popular sport in the world. With China, India, and the U.S. essentially ignoring the sport and countries the size of the Netherlands being globally elite, it just doesn't seem likely. Soccer is huge n Europe and Latin America, but most of the rest of us don't care much.
Again when he says we did not see play or is irrelevant same will be said about his modern day ''heroes'' in a decade or a little more. But worse like players from the 1990's and 2000's nobody cares about them anymore for the most part. There are names bigger than the sport itself like Babe Ruth, Muhammad Ali, Wayne Gretzky and Jordan. But the older stuff will always remain the best Ruth has proven that and so has Wagner.
I never said the 86 Fleer Jordan is garbage it simply depends on how much money you have into it. After a certain price it no longer is a sound investment in my opinion.
While I find this discussion to be both interesting and compelling...
I wonder if there are some out here who were thinking about a time when we were just having fun with out collections with only a fleeting interest in value?
While I find this discussion to be both interesting and compelling...
I wonder if there are some out here who were thinking about a time when we were just having fun with out collections with only a fleeting interest in value?
While I find this discussion to be both interesting and compelling...
I wonder if there are some out here who were thinking about a time when we were just having fun with out collections with only a fleeting interest in value?
Most of us do it's when big money is involved knowledge needs to be shared.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
That's your choice to invest in a player that (a) is irrelevant today and (b) you didn't see play. That's not what today's market wants. I would never want to pay money for that card. It doesn't speak to me. At. All.
Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of people adored (and still do) Michael Jordan. His global appeal and fame is unrivaled (except by perhaps LeBron James). Decades after his retirement, Michael Jordan remains an icon. The global demand for his shoes is unparalleled.
If you don't want to buy, as I said, that's your choice. But to denigrate someone else's passion is the antithesis of what collectors are supposed to abide by.
See it's facts like these that make it impossible for me to believe that soccer is the most popular sport in the world. With China, India, and the U.S. essentially ignoring the sport and countries the size of the Netherlands being globally elite, it just doesn't seem likely. Soccer is huge n Europe and Latin America, but most of the rest of us don't care much.
What makes you believe China and India aren't passionate about soccer?
300 million soccer fans in China and in India its nearly as popular as cricket (the most popular sport).
Soccer is the world's most popular sport because it only needs a simple ball to play.
Comic books, MTG, Pokemon and a few others are global markets. Some sports not all the USA tends to only think from within. Most of the world do not care about US stamps or coins. Superheroes are almost in every country same now for Pokemon and unlike humans they don't die and even if they do they revive them. People will not forget about Batman or Spiderman not for a long time. And many others like Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, Wolverine, The X-Men and so on. Walt Disney now owns most of the rights and are supposedly building theme parks in the US and 2-3 other countries for Superheroes. Walt Disney paid billions for the rights and believe me they want a huge return on investment so they will come out with cartoons, toys and on and on for decades.
@rcmb3220 said:
6 million ways to collect. Choose one.
Or more
@rcmb3220 said:
6 million ways to collect. Choose one.
Or more
Pretty much. But there are cycles and some times those like me who have seen them come and go a few times try to reach out and show the pitfalls that can and do happen after there is a major hype period.
Oh and If I was still an active sports card buyer the 48 Leaf Stan Musial and 51 Bowman Willie Mays would be at the top or near it. Same with the Roberto Clemente 55 Topps with more and more Latinos in the USA he will explode price wise. Not that only Latinos collect him he is very much collected but he is a hero to the Latino community for sure. The 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams as well. Tris Speaker was a hell of a player as well his rookie is his T206 card. Not well known but his stats are amazing.
There are others as well like Sandy Koufax, Pete Rose....
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
For someone who has been following it daily you sure missed the boat on investing in modern.
A keen observer such as yourself surely must have foreseen the tremendous gains on the table and made a fortune in timing the market as astutely as you claim to be.
I'll leave this thread with this: people buying what they want for what they want is what our hobby is based upon. Sitting there in judgement, condemning the purchase as foolish or dumb is the antithesis of what the hobby is support.
Enjoy what you want. Stop passing judgment on others. And please, for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending to see the future and state how you know what's going to happen.
Your comment of:
_ Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth._
I think that one will set people off and sounds a little uninformed. It has been nearly 100 years since Babe Ruth first played baseball for the Yankees. Prior to the airing of The Last Dance, I had already heard rumblings of both Kobe and LeBron being the newest GOAT for basketball. The LeBron ones get louder all the time, too, by the way and if he retires with more points and titles than anyone else? What did that take? 25 years? To be basically replaced (were it not for Netflix)? And I watched Jordan plenty - top 5 player all time based on ability and easily #1 based on hype.
Never saw Ruth once but he’s the hands down GOAT for everyone who knows anything about baseball. Still highly collected, still sees crazy prices. Also...
Mickey Mantle > Michael Jordan
In cards, in legacy and in history.
Past performance does not indicate future gains - of course - but the arrogance of youth is consistent and timeless and it’s all over your posts. You make some very excellent points but the ‘I know so much more than all of you’ attitude you’ve conveyed in your 177 posts is a little much.
All that said, enjoy the forums!
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Oh and If I was still an active sports card buyer the 48 Leaf Stan Musial and 51 Bowman Willie Mays would be at the top or near it. Same with the Roberto Clemente 55 Topps with more and more Latinos in the USA he will explode price wise. Not that only Latinos collect him he is very much collected but he is a hero to the Latino community for sure. The 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams as well. Tris Speaker was a hell of a player as well his rookie is his T206 card. Not well known but his stats are amazing.
There are others as well like Sandy Koufax, Pete Rose....
I hear ya; there are whales at play in the modern market. Boggles the mind.
I'd rather have slower and steady growth in vintage.
The cards you've mentioned, I don't see them falling out of flavor any time soon.
Speaker with the blue background is one of my favorites in the PC,
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
For someone who has been following it daily you sure missed the boat on investing in modern.
A keen observer such as yourself surely must have foreseen the tremendous gains on the table and made a fortune in timing the market as astutely as you claim to be.
I'll leave this thread with this: people buying what they want for what they want is what our hobby is based upon. Sitting there in judgement, condemning the purchase as foolish or dumb is the antithesis of what the hobby is support.
Enjoy what you want. Stop passing judgment on others. And please, for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending to see the future and state how you know what's going to happen.
Your comment of:
_ Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth._
I think that one will set people off and sounds a little uninformed. It has been nearly 100 years since Babe Ruth first played baseball for the Yankees. Prior to the airing of The Last Dance, I had already heard rumblings of both Kobe and LeBron being the newest GOAT for basketball. The LeBron ones get louder all the time, too, by the way and if he retires with more points and titles than anyone else? What did that take? 25 years? To be basically replaced (were it not for Netflix)? And I watched Jordan plenty - top 5 player all time based on ability and easily #1 based on hype.
Never saw Ruth once but he’s the hands down GOAT for everyone who knows anything about baseball. Still highly collected, still sees crazy prices. Also...
Mickey Mantle > Michael Jordan
In cards, in legacy and in history.
Past performance does not indicate future gains - of course - but the arrogance of youth is consistent and timeless and it’s all over your posts. You make some very excellent points but the ‘I know so much more than all of you’ attitude you’ve conveyed in your 177 posts is a little much.
All that said, enjoy the forums!
Baby Ruth is not the greatest to ever play the game. Neither is Mantle.
They are undeniably famous and some of the most iconic players in the game's history.
Lebron might very well go down in history surpassing Jordan as the greatest of all time. That, however, will do nothing to diminish Jordans legacy.
If my posts asking for respect for other's purchases and an open mind in regards to modern is "a little much"?
I'm not sure what to tell you if that's what your takeaway from my posts.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
For someone who has been following it daily you sure missed the boat on investing in modern.
A keen observer such as yourself surely must have foreseen the tremendous gains on the table and made a fortune in timing the market as astutely as you claim to be.
I'll leave this thread with this: people buying what they want for what they want is what our hobby is based upon. Sitting there in judgement, condemning the purchase as foolish or dumb is the antithesis of what the hobby is support.
Enjoy what you want. Stop passing judgment on others. And please, for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending to see the future and state how you know what's going to happen.
Your comment of:
_ Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth._
I think that one will set people off and sounds a little uninformed. It has been nearly 100 years since Babe Ruth first played baseball for the Yankees. Prior to the airing of The Last Dance, I had already heard rumblings of both Kobe and LeBron being the newest GOAT for basketball. The LeBron ones get louder all the time, too, by the way and if he retires with more points and titles than anyone else? What did that take? 25 years? To be basically replaced (were it not for Netflix)? And I watched Jordan plenty - top 5 player all time based on ability and easily #1 based on hype.
Never saw Ruth once but he’s the hands down GOAT for everyone who knows anything about baseball. Still highly collected, still sees crazy prices. Also...
Mickey Mantle > Michael Jordan
In cards, in legacy and in history.
Past performance does not indicate future gains - of course - but the arrogance of youth is consistent and timeless and it’s all over your posts. You make some very excellent points but the ‘I know so much more than all of you’ attitude you’ve conveyed in your 177 posts is a little much.
All that said, enjoy the forums!
Baby Ruth is not the greatest to ever play the game. Neither is Mantle.
They are undeniably famous and some of the most iconic players in the game's history.
Lebron might very well go down in history surpassing Jordan as the greatest of all time. That, however, will do nothing to diminish Jordans legacy.
If my posts asking for respect for other's purchases and an open mind in regards to modern is "a little much"?
I'm not sure what to tell you if that's what your takeaway from my posts.
Good luck with Babe Ruth not being the best ever statement maybe only Ty Cobb but even then. Babe Ruth is baseball. The best sports player in any field is Wayne Gretzky with 2851 career regular season points no one even comes close by almost 1000 points. Not Jordan not anyone dominated their sport like Gretzky did. At one point he had 61 NHL careers records. There will never be another Gretzky in hockey never in 200 years he will still be at the top of most NHL records geez even in 500 years. Not sure about other athletes. Not Brady not Mike Tyson no one.
Babe Ruth pitched for a few years so he lost those years as a batter he was one of the best pitchers as well. His whole life story is amazing he started the whole sports icon thing. Players these days have boring lives nothing even close to the parties and all the mess Ruth got into and how many children he helped and so much more.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
Where was this advice when the mantle sold for 5 million?
No where the Mantle is the face of the entire hobby same as the T206 Wagner. Same as the Mona Lisa in paintings. Like Superman and Batman or more like Spiderman and Batman with the current generation.
Explain this to us since you are the self proclaimed knower of all things modem per your post above. The Mantle PSA rookie is the gold standard when it comes to collecting. Has been sought out for decades in all grades, and every year Mantle was the most expansive card in every set except for the top rookie - Yaz, Rose, Ryan...
There are off the top of my head 31 PSA 8’s and 6 PSA 9 examples so it is very rare and in high demand. You don’t sneak up on a Mantle rookie or any nice Mantle from any year and get a steal. Jordan rookies are everywhere - 300 PSA 10’s, 2700+ PSA 9’s, and 7000+ PSA 8’s. Plus many more in BGS holders and raw plus unopened. Supply is no issue - check eBay and you can buy any grade you want in volume. No way to question the scarcity of Mantle and lack of it for Jordan.
Nobody questions both are the pinnacle for collectors in their given sport. Most collectors want a Mantle rookie and most hoops collectors want a Jordan rookie. Mantle prices have always been high and Jordan has been; however, for a PSA 8 Jordan to go to $25-35k from $10k in one month or from $6k to $25-35k in two months makes no sense. Or to go from $2400 this same time last year to today’s prices makes zero sense unless there is manipulation. Tell me what events have happened in the last 12 months where people all of the sudden discovered Jordan was the GOAT and that his cards were now worth 10x more in value? Plus there is no scarcity like Mantle, Aaron, Ruth.... Modern collectors and sneakerbois can manipulate the market to make a buck, and us “old” guys who are not so old can warn people to not get duped. Why has Mantle not seen 10x rise in his PSA 8 rookies from $500k to $5 million in the same grade 🤔
We are on the same page so I don't understand your question?
This was not directed at you. Plus you are correct we are on the same page 😉
Whether you agree with the sale price or not, the Jordan GJ13S is a holy grail card for Jordan collectors. It isn’t just a random Jersey auto, it’s the FIRST jersey auto. The card is the basis for all modern collecting.
In a few years, 1.5 million will look like a bargain. It’s going to be a $10 million card within a decade.
@Batpig said:
Whether you agree with the sale price or not, the Jordan GJ13S is a holy grail card for Jordan collectors. It isn’t just a random Jersey auto, it’s the FIRST jersey auto. The card is the basis for all modern collecting.
In a few years, 1.5 million will look like a bargain. It’s going to be a $10 million card within a decade.
Hey I hope so for the buyer. I would not hold my breath. The most expensive card in the entire hobby a modern day jersey auto card yeah sure it will pass Wagner and Mantle and every other iconic card. The face of the entire hobby this jersey card.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
For someone who has been following it daily you sure missed the boat on investing in modern.
A keen observer such as yourself surely must have foreseen the tremendous gains on the table and made a fortune in timing the market as astutely as you claim to be.
I'll leave this thread with this: people buying what they want for what they want is what our hobby is based upon. Sitting there in judgement, condemning the purchase as foolish or dumb is the antithesis of what the hobby is support.
Enjoy what you want. Stop passing judgment on others. And please, for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending to see the future and state how you know what's going to happen.
Your comment of:
_ Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth._
I think that one will set people off and sounds a little uninformed. It has been nearly 100 years since Babe Ruth first played baseball for the Yankees. Prior to the airing of The Last Dance, I had already heard rumblings of both Kobe and LeBron being the newest GOAT for basketball. The LeBron ones get louder all the time, too, by the way and if he retires with more points and titles than anyone else? What did that take? 25 years? To be basically replaced (were it not for Netflix)? And I watched Jordan plenty - top 5 player all time based on ability and easily #1 based on hype.
Never saw Ruth once but he’s the hands down GOAT for everyone who knows anything about baseball. Still highly collected, still sees crazy prices. Also...
Mickey Mantle > Michael Jordan
In cards, in legacy and in history.
Past performance does not indicate future gains - of course - but the arrogance of youth is consistent and timeless and it’s all over your posts. You make some very excellent points but the ‘I know so much more than all of you’ attitude you’ve conveyed in your 177 posts is a little much.
All that said, enjoy the forums!
Baby Ruth is not the greatest to ever play the game. Neither is Mantle.
They are undeniably famous and some of the most iconic players in the game's history.
Lebron might very well go down in history surpassing Jordan as the greatest of all time. That, however, will do nothing to diminish Jordans legacy.
If my posts asking for respect for other's purchases and an open mind in regards to modern is "a little much"?
I'm not sure what to tell you if that's what your takeaway from my posts.
When you come out with this statement:
“ What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.”
I took away exactly what you meant and this is why you are being called out. This is a second and final attempt to help you; take it for what it’s worth.
“Collectors of a certain age can’t or won’t understand” ?
“Old timey ball players” ?
That is you thinking you’re being subtle, clever and cute when in reality you are coming across as quite arrogant as in a transparent way. Then, after this not so subtle shot at vintage collectors as outmoded and essentially dumb, where people refute you, you follow this up with the whole “Hey guys, I know I started in this thread on a disrespectful tone but YOU guys are bullies and need to respect everyone and what they want to collect.”
So tell me what I misread, exactly?
Feels like I am spot on so far but feel free to correct me any time.
See, I read it as written by a typical member of this new generation of kids who were lied to in school and told that every idea is a good one (nope), that you’re all special (nope) and that you are entitled to something (you’re not) and that you’re knowledge is somehow more valuable than the experience of people who collected these cards as they were coming out of packs instead of already in PSA plastic.
I’ve been around a long time, @BriantheTaxGuy, as have many of the collectors you are insulting - knowingly or not. Many, like myself, collect all sorts of stuff, including modern and have no problem with you pumping the cards in your collection (another thing I’d bet money on).
Again, enjoy the forums and try to tone it down a bit. You’ll make more friends and you will like the place more. Friendly advice.
And when you need help, ask me, and I will help you.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@Batpig said:
Whether you agree with the sale price or not, the Jordan GJ13S is a holy grail card for Jordan collectors. It isn’t just a random Jersey auto, it’s the FIRST jersey auto. The card is the basis for all modern collecting.
In a few years, 1.5 million will look like a bargain. It’s going to be a $10 million card within a decade.
Thank you for bringing knowledge to this discussion. I knew this card was important but was unaware of its outsized importance.
A segment of the collecting population will never appreciate modern cards. For whatever reason they've decided that it's all overpriced and overhyped nonsense. That's fine- less buyers for me to compete against!
@Batpig said:
Whether you agree with the sale price or not, the Jordan GJ13S is a holy grail card for Jordan collectors. It isn’t just a random Jersey auto, it’s the FIRST jersey auto. The card is the basis for all modern collecting.
In a few years, 1.5 million will look like a bargain. It’s going to be a $10 million card within a decade.
Hey I hope so for the buyer. I would not hold my breath. The most expensive card in the entire hobby a modern day jersey auto card yeah sure it will pass Wagner and Mantle and every other iconic card. The face of the entire hobby this jersey card.
Hey hobby meet your new face.
If a PSA 10 52 Mantle hit the block right now, I guarantee it would break 10 million. The same is probably true for a Wagner, depending on the card. I didn’t say it would pass them, just hit that within a decade, although it wouldn’t shock me if it did pass them.
I also want to be clear that I don’t think there’s a right thing to collect or a wrong thing to collect. I prefer cards from the 50’s and 60’s, but I also love pre war. I appreciate modern from an investment point of view.
The bottom line is that people outside the hobby would think it’s ridiculous to be arguing over which cardboard is worth more.
If a PSA 10 52 Mantle hit the block right now, I guarantee it would break 10 million. The same is probably true for a Wagner, depending on the card. I didn’t say it would pass them, just hit that within a decade, although it wouldn’t shock me if it did pass them.
Never going to happen no modern card will be the most expensive card ever if it does that is just plain insanity. But people born into money can do insane things sometimes thing is will it hold long term.
@Batpig said:
Whether you agree with the sale price or not, the Jordan GJ13S is a holy grail card for Jordan collectors. It isn’t just a random Jersey auto, it’s the FIRST jersey auto. The card is the basis for all modern collecting.
In a few years, 1.5 million will look like a bargain. It’s going to be a $10 million card within a decade.
Hey I hope so for the buyer. I would not hold my breath. The most expensive card in the entire hobby a modern day jersey auto card yeah sure it will pass Wagner and Mantle and every other iconic card. The face of the entire hobby this jersey card.
Hey hobby meet your new face.
If it were to become the most valuable card ever sold, why is that a bad thing as you're implying?
If a PSA 10 52 Mantle hit the block right now, I guarantee it would break 10 million. The same is probably true for a Wagner, depending on the card. I didn’t say it would pass them, just hit that within a decade, although it wouldn’t shock me if it did pass them.
Never going to happen no modern card will be the most expensive card ever if it does that is just plain insanity. But people born into money can do insane things sometimes thing is will it hold long term.
Until the mantle sold a modern card was the most expensive card ever. Mike Trout 3.93M.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
For someone who has been following it daily you sure missed the boat on investing in modern.
A keen observer such as yourself surely must have foreseen the tremendous gains on the table and made a fortune in timing the market as astutely as you claim to be.
That is you thinking you’re being subtle, clever and cute when in reality you are coming across as quite arrogant as in a transparent way. Then, after this not so subtle shot at vintage collectors as outmoded and essentially dumb, where people refute you, you follow this up with the whole “Hey guys, I know I started in this thread on a disrespectful tone but YOU guys are bullies and need to respect everyone and what they want to collect.”
See, I read it as written by a typical member of this new generation of kids who were lied to in school and told that every idea is a good one (nope), that you’re all special (nope) and that you are entitled to something (you’re not) and that you’re knowledge is somehow more valuable than the experience of people who collected these cards as they were coming out of packs instead of already in PSA plastic.
I’ve been around a long time, @BriantheTaxGuy, as have many of the collectors you are insulting - knowingly or not. Many, like myself, collect all sorts of stuff, including modern and have no problem with you pumping the cards in your collection (another thing I’d bet money on).
Again, enjoy the forums and try to tone it down a bit. You’ll make more friends and you will like the place more. Friendly advice.
And when you need help, ask me, and I will help you.
Some great points 1951.
If these guys were as smart as they say they are they would keep quiet and would have grabbed all of the Jordan cards already since they “knew” they were all going to explode in price.
Plus either he is young and arrogant or young and ignorant or both or maybe even an alt/troll who knows. When someone says Babe Ruth is not the greatest ever I lean towards the last one. Modern guys are out pumping Jordan and Kobe to turn and burn - they are nit collecting just trying to make a quick buck. Too has a lot of collectors on here have been around a long time. If we did not buy Jordan when he was $2k or $5k why would we want him at $25 or 70k 🤔
He is an icon because he has shoes named after him and sold with his name. I think I will tackle this one since I might know a thing or two about selling Jordan’s and Nike products - as most know that is what I did for 25+ years for Nike. If people knew how much that product is controlled so it sells out on a limited basis as retro models, and how poorly the newer models sell but are brought in by Foot Locker and such as well as other Nike models. They only buy the new models because if they don’t buy “x” amount on futures across the board on a strategic plan they don’t get retro Jordan’s...
I collect modern and vintage - modern because it keeps me interested in between vintage buys and I can make a few extra nickels to buy my vintage stuff. I don’t mind modern guys at all and appreciate what they did and flip stuff; however, trying to manipulate people to pump and sell does not make for a good hobby long term.
@Batpig said:
Whether you agree with the sale price or not, the Jordan GJ13S is a holy grail card for Jordan collectors. It isn’t just a random Jersey auto, it’s the FIRST jersey auto. The card is the basis for all modern collecting.
In a few years, 1.5 million will look like a bargain. It’s going to be a $10 million card within a decade.
Hey I hope so for the buyer. I would not hold my breath. The most expensive card in the entire hobby a modern day jersey auto card yeah sure it will pass Wagner and Mantle and every other iconic card. The face of the entire hobby this jersey card.
Hey hobby meet your new face.
If it were to become the most valuable card ever sold, why is that a bad thing as you're implying?
You don't truly appreciate the history of sports you can't understand.
If a PSA 10 52 Mantle hit the block right now, I guarantee it would break 10 million. The same is probably true for a Wagner, depending on the card. I didn’t say it would pass them, just hit that within a decade, although it wouldn’t shock me if it did pass them.
Never going to happen no modern card will be the most expensive card ever if it does that is just plain insanity. But people born into money can do insane things sometimes thing is will it hold long term.
Until the mantle sold a modern card was the most expensive card ever. Mike Trout 3.93M.
Yeah because people think he is the next Mantle again one more time Mantle. Mantle played his whole career with a sever knee injury and many torn muscle from swinging to hard. I doubt Trout would even play with the knee injury Mantle had.
If these guys were as smart as they say they are they would keep quiet and would have grabbed all of the Jordan cards already since they “knew” they were all going to explode in price.
Plus either he is young and arrogant or young and ignorant or both or maybe even an alt/troll who knows. When someone says Babe Ruth is not the greatest ever I lean towards the last one. Modern guys are out pumping Jordan and Kobe to turn and burn - they are nit collecting just trying to make a quick buck. Too has a lot of collectors on here have been around a long time. If we did not buy Jordan when he was $2k or $5k why would we want him at $25 or 70k 🤔
He is an icon because he has shoes named after him and sold with his name. I think I will tackle this one since I might know a thing or two about selling Jordan’s and Nike products - as most know that is what I did for 25+ years for Nike. If people knew how much that product is controlled so it sells out on a limited basis as retro models, and how poorly the newer models sell but are brought in by Foot Locker and such as well as other Nike models. They only buy the new models because if they don’t buy “x” amount on futures across the board on a strategic plan they don’t get retro Jordan’s...
I collect modern and vintage - modern because it keeps me interested in between vintage buys and I can make a few extra nickels to buy my vintage stuff. I don’t mind modern guys at all and appreciate what they did and flip stuff; however, trying to manipulate people to pump and sell does not make for a good hobby long term.
I knew the cycle would eventually come (did not know when but now we know the global pandemic and people staying home and not traveling and many other things they no longer do) I don't care to own 10 Jordans or 50 Trout cards so I did not buy them. Simple as that. The cards I own have all done well over time I trust them they are iconic vintage cards not in a rush to sell. Now if I had modern cards they would be sold so fast you head would spin.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
I'm still curious why the Jordan card which started this thread becoming the most valuable in history would be a bad thing?
Iconic player? Check.
Industry-defining card? Check. (Thanks for the info @Batpig )
Why is this a bad thing? Why is change in this hobby so frowned upon?
Buy about 20 to 30 books on vintage baseball players read them all then you will know why.
You made the statement. I'm asking for your opinion.
P.S. I'm older than you.
Older does not mean wiser like you said. Why would I want to see a thing that looks so stupid and fake as the main image of the entire hobby. Made to be 23 with a piece of tissue and and grown mans signature on it (Jordans signature is all over so many cards nothing special) I prefer vintage any day the history for one it's age and it's journey. How it survived 2 world wars and the great depression and so many things over what some modern business men sitting down and pulling an idea of this modern thing out of you know what for pure profit.
See this painting over here. I bought it ten years ago for $60,000 dollars. Today I could sell it for $600,000. The elusion has become real and the more real it becomes, the more desperate they want it.
See this painting over here. I bought it ten years ago for $60,000 dollars. Today I could sell it for $600,000. The elusion has become real and the more real it becomes, the more desperate they want it.
It’s really this simple.
Easy in a world where people prefer lies to truths. It's actually super popular now it seems ''real''. 1 + 1 = 2 no no no it feels like it should be 3. Then comes it has to be 3.
See this painting over here. I bought it ten years ago for $60,000 dollars. Today I could sell it for $600,000. The elusion has become real and the more real it becomes, the more desperate they want it.
It’s really this simple.
You do realize you are quoting two guys who, while fictional, wound up in jail for being scam artists.
😉
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Hey they are our future let life show them the hardships most like to learn like that. Some listen but not many he will feel the exact same when his time comes to teach younger people it's always the same. Like I said nothing new under the sun. Same old sun just new humans.
I own many many modern rookies like 86 Fleer Jordan and 1979 OPC Gretzky but paid 500$ each one is a PSA 7 and the other a PSA 8. Know when to buy and know when to sell. They where excellent buys at those prices. Not so much anymore.
Some are going to make out like thieves in the next few months and watch it all crash and burn. Not all but a large part. If I where in your position I would be thinking like the thieves not that I think it's OK morally but one has to take advantage when money in concerned better than being the victim.
Explain this to us since you are the self proclaimed knower of all things modem per your post above. The Mantle PSA rookie is the gold standard when it comes to collecting. Has been sought out for decades in all grades, and every year Mantle was the most expansive card in every set except for the top rookie - Yaz, Rose, Ryan...
There are off the top of my head 31 PSA 8’s and 6 PSA 9 examples so it is very rare and in high demand. You don’t sneak up on a Mantle rookie or any nice Mantle from any year and get a steal. Jordan rookies are everywhere - 300 PSA 10’s, 2700+ PSA 9’s, and 7000+ PSA 8’s. Plus many more in BGS holders and raw plus unopened. Supply is no issue - check eBay and you can buy any grade you want in volume. No way to question the scarcity of Mantle and lack of it for Jordan.
Nobody questions both are the pinnacle for collectors in their given sport. Most collectors want a Mantle rookie and most hoops collectors want a Jordan rookie. Mantle prices have always been high and Jordan has been; however, for a PSA 8 Jordan to go to $25-35k from $10k in one month or from $6k to $25-35k in two months makes no sense. Or to go from $2400 this same time last year to today’s prices makes zero sense unless there is manipulation. Tell me what events have happened in the last 12 months where people all of the sudden discovered Jordan was the GOAT and that his cards were now worth 10x more in value? Plus there is no scarcity like Mantle, Aaron, Ruth.... Modern collectors and sneakerbois can manipulate the market to make a buck, and us “old” guys who are not so old can warn people to not get duped. Why has Mantle not seen 10x rise in his PSA 8 rookies from $500k to $5 million in the same grade 🤔
We are on the same page so I don't understand your question?
See it's facts like these that make it impossible for me to believe that soccer is the most popular sport in the world. With China, India, and the U.S. essentially ignoring the sport and countries the size of the Netherlands being globally elite, it just doesn't seem likely. Soccer is huge n Europe and Latin America, but most of the rest of us don't care much.
Again when he says we did not see play or is irrelevant same will be said about his modern day ''heroes'' in a decade or a little more. But worse like players from the 1990's and 2000's nobody cares about them anymore for the most part. There are names bigger than the sport itself like Babe Ruth, Muhammad Ali, Wayne Gretzky and Jordan. But the older stuff will always remain the best Ruth has proven that and so has Wagner.
I never said the 86 Fleer Jordan is garbage it simply depends on how much money you have into it. After a certain price it no longer is a sound investment in my opinion.
Simple be smart buy when it's low and sell high. Or keep them is price means nothing to you and enjoy them.
While I find this discussion to be both interesting and compelling...
I wonder if there are some out here who were thinking about a time when we were just having fun with out collections with only a fleeting interest in value?
Most of us do it's when big money is involved knowledge needs to be shared.
What makes you believe China and India aren't passionate about soccer?
300 million soccer fans in China and in India its nearly as popular as cricket (the most popular sport).
Soccer is the world's most popular sport because it only needs a simple ball to play.
Comic books, MTG, Pokemon and a few others are global markets. Some sports not all the USA tends to only think from within. Most of the world do not care about US stamps or coins. Superheroes are almost in every country same now for Pokemon and unlike humans they don't die and even if they do they revive them. People will not forget about Batman or Spiderman not for a long time. And many others like Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, Wolverine, The X-Men and so on. Walt Disney now owns most of the rights and are supposedly building theme parks in the US and 2-3 other countries for Superheroes. Walt Disney paid billions for the rights and believe me they want a huge return on investment so they will come out with cartoons, toys and on and on for decades.
6 million ways to collect. Choose one.
Or more
Pretty much. But there are cycles and some times those like me who have seen them come and go a few times try to reach out and show the pitfalls that can and do happen after there is a major hype period.
Oh and If I was still an active sports card buyer the 48 Leaf Stan Musial and 51 Bowman Willie Mays would be at the top or near it. Same with the Roberto Clemente 55 Topps with more and more Latinos in the USA he will explode price wise. Not that only Latinos collect him he is very much collected but he is a hero to the Latino community for sure. The 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams as well. Tris Speaker was a hell of a player as well his rookie is his T206 card. Not well known but his stats are amazing.
There are others as well like Sandy Koufax, Pete Rose....
i understand your thinking, trust me. but there are literally thousands of cards and buyers that obviously disagree w us.
and that speaks volumes too.
Your comment of:
_ Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth._
I think that one will set people off and sounds a little uninformed. It has been nearly 100 years since Babe Ruth first played baseball for the Yankees. Prior to the airing of The Last Dance, I had already heard rumblings of both Kobe and LeBron being the newest GOAT for basketball. The LeBron ones get louder all the time, too, by the way and if he retires with more points and titles than anyone else? What did that take? 25 years? To be basically replaced (were it not for Netflix)? And I watched Jordan plenty - top 5 player all time based on ability and easily #1 based on hype.
Never saw Ruth once but he’s the hands down GOAT for everyone who knows anything about baseball. Still highly collected, still sees crazy prices. Also...
Mickey Mantle > Michael Jordan
In cards, in legacy and in history.
Past performance does not indicate future gains - of course - but the arrogance of youth is consistent and timeless and it’s all over your posts. You make some very excellent points but the ‘I know so much more than all of you’ attitude you’ve conveyed in your 177 posts is a little much.
All that said, enjoy the forums!
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I hear ya; there are whales at play in the modern market. Boggles the mind.
I'd rather have slower and steady growth in vintage.
The cards you've mentioned, I don't see them falling out of flavor any time soon.
Speaker with the blue background is one of my favorites in the PC,
Who are the buyers right now seems like everybody and anybody will they stick it out long term not so sure.
Baby Ruth is not the greatest to ever play the game. Neither is Mantle.
They are undeniably famous and some of the most iconic players in the game's history.
Lebron might very well go down in history surpassing Jordan as the greatest of all time. That, however, will do nothing to diminish Jordans legacy.
If my posts asking for respect for other's purchases and an open mind in regards to modern is "a little much"?
I'm not sure what to tell you if that's what your takeaway from my posts.
Lot of 40 yr olds who have no more mortgage and college set up for the kids thanks to this hobby
Do you buy vintage or modern?
Good luck with Babe Ruth not being the best ever statement maybe only Ty Cobb but even then. Babe Ruth is baseball. The best sports player in any field is Wayne Gretzky with 2851 career regular season points no one even comes close by almost 1000 points. Not Jordan not anyone dominated their sport like Gretzky did. At one point he had 61 NHL careers records. There will never be another Gretzky in hockey never in 200 years he will still be at the top of most NHL records geez even in 500 years. Not sure about other athletes. Not Brady not Mike Tyson no one.
Babe Ruth pitched for a few years so he lost those years as a batter he was one of the best pitchers as well. His whole life story is amazing he started the whole sports icon thing. Players these days have boring lives nothing even close to the parties and all the mess Ruth got into and how many children he helped and so much more.
This was not directed at you. Plus you are correct we are on the same page 😉
Whether you agree with the sale price or not, the Jordan GJ13S is a holy grail card for Jordan collectors. It isn’t just a random Jersey auto, it’s the FIRST jersey auto. The card is the basis for all modern collecting.
In a few years, 1.5 million will look like a bargain. It’s going to be a $10 million card within a decade.
My cut off was always 1999. I bought and sold everything (no t206 wags tho) prior to 2000 except Tom Brady. I made a exception for him lol
Hey I hope so for the buyer. I would not hold my breath. The most expensive card in the entire hobby a modern day jersey auto card yeah sure it will pass Wagner and Mantle and every other iconic card. The face of the entire hobby this jersey card.
Hey hobby meet your new face.
When you come out with this statement:
“ What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.”
I took away exactly what you meant and this is why you are being called out. This is a second and final attempt to help you; take it for what it’s worth.
“Collectors of a certain age can’t or won’t understand” ?
“Old timey ball players” ?
That is you thinking you’re being subtle, clever and cute when in reality you are coming across as quite arrogant as in a transparent way. Then, after this not so subtle shot at vintage collectors as outmoded and essentially dumb, where people refute you, you follow this up with the whole “Hey guys, I know I started in this thread on a disrespectful tone but YOU guys are bullies and need to respect everyone and what they want to collect.”
So tell me what I misread, exactly?
Feels like I am spot on so far but feel free to correct me any time.
See, I read it as written by a typical member of this new generation of kids who were lied to in school and told that every idea is a good one (nope), that you’re all special (nope) and that you are entitled to something (you’re not) and that you’re knowledge is somehow more valuable than the experience of people who collected these cards as they were coming out of packs instead of already in PSA plastic.
I’ve been around a long time, @BriantheTaxGuy, as have many of the collectors you are insulting - knowingly or not. Many, like myself, collect all sorts of stuff, including modern and have no problem with you pumping the cards in your collection (another thing I’d bet money on).
Again, enjoy the forums and try to tone it down a bit. You’ll make more friends and you will like the place more. Friendly advice.
And when you need help, ask me, and I will help you.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Thank you for bringing knowledge to this discussion. I knew this card was important but was unaware of its outsized importance.
A segment of the collecting population will never appreciate modern cards. For whatever reason they've decided that it's all overpriced and overhyped nonsense. That's fine- less buyers for me to compete against!
If a PSA 10 52 Mantle hit the block right now, I guarantee it would break 10 million. The same is probably true for a Wagner, depending on the card. I didn’t say it would pass them, just hit that within a decade, although it wouldn’t shock me if it did pass them.
I also want to be clear that I don’t think there’s a right thing to collect or a wrong thing to collect. I prefer cards from the 50’s and 60’s, but I also love pre war. I appreciate modern from an investment point of view.
The bottom line is that people outside the hobby would think it’s ridiculous to be arguing over which cardboard is worth more.
Never going to happen no modern card will be the most expensive card ever if it does that is just plain insanity. But people born into money can do insane things sometimes thing is will it hold long term.
If it were to become the most valuable card ever sold, why is that a bad thing as you're implying?
Until the mantle sold a modern card was the most expensive card ever. Mike Trout 3.93M.
Some great points 1951.
If these guys were as smart as they say they are they would keep quiet and would have grabbed all of the Jordan cards already since they “knew” they were all going to explode in price.
Plus either he is young and arrogant or young and ignorant or both or maybe even an alt/troll who knows. When someone says Babe Ruth is not the greatest ever I lean towards the last one. Modern guys are out pumping Jordan and Kobe to turn and burn - they are nit collecting just trying to make a quick buck. Too has a lot of collectors on here have been around a long time. If we did not buy Jordan when he was $2k or $5k why would we want him at $25 or 70k 🤔
He is an icon because he has shoes named after him and sold with his name. I think I will tackle this one since I might know a thing or two about selling Jordan’s and Nike products - as most know that is what I did for 25+ years for Nike. If people knew how much that product is controlled so it sells out on a limited basis as retro models, and how poorly the newer models sell but are brought in by Foot Locker and such as well as other Nike models. They only buy the new models because if they don’t buy “x” amount on futures across the board on a strategic plan they don’t get retro Jordan’s...
I collect modern and vintage - modern because it keeps me interested in between vintage buys and I can make a few extra nickels to buy my vintage stuff. I don’t mind modern guys at all and appreciate what they did and flip stuff; however, trying to manipulate people to pump and sell does not make for a good hobby long term.
You don't truly appreciate the history of sports you can't understand.
Yeah because people think he is the next Mantle again one more time Mantle. Mantle played his whole career with a sever knee injury and many torn muscle from swinging to hard. I doubt Trout would even play with the knee injury Mantle had.
I knew the cycle would eventually come (did not know when but now we know the global pandemic and people staying home and not traveling and many other things they no longer do) I don't care to own 10 Jordans or 50 Trout cards so I did not buy them. Simple as that. The cards I own have all done well over time I trust them they are iconic vintage cards not in a rush to sell. Now if I had modern cards they would be sold so fast you head would spin.
Hey enjoy the hobby sell when it's hot and get back in when it's not.
I'm still curious why the Jordan card which started this thread becoming the most valuable in history would be a bad thing?
Iconic player? Check.
Industry-defining card? Check. (Thanks for the info @Batpig )
Why is this a bad thing? Why is change in this hobby so frowned upon?
Buy about 20 to 30 books on vintage baseball players read them all then you will know why.
You made the statement. I'm asking for your opinion.
P.S. I'm older than you.
Older does not mean wiser like you said. Why would I want to see a thing that looks so stupid and fake as the main image of the entire hobby. Made to be 23 with a piece of tissue and and grown mans signature on it (Jordans signature is all over so many cards nothing special) I prefer vintage any day the history for one it's age and it's journey. How it survived 2 world wars and the great depression and so many things over what some modern business men sitting down and pulling an idea of this modern thing out of you know what for pure profit.
See this painting over here. I bought it ten years ago for $60,000 dollars. Today I could sell it for $600,000. The elusion has become real and the more real it becomes, the more desperate they want it.
It’s really this simple.
Easy in a world where people prefer lies to truths. It's actually super popular now it seems ''real''. 1 + 1 = 2 no no no it feels like it should be 3. Then comes it has to be 3.
You do realize you are quoting two guys who, while fictional, wound up in jail for being scam artists.
😉
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
The higher the prices, the more bragging rights, the cooler it becomes. This isn’t rocket science.
Hey some people still believe the PSA 8 Wagner was never trimmed always someone who falls for it. Knowledge is key.
Manipulation of the market it happens then the carpet is pulled under it's feet and some are surprised.