The card hobby will reap a whirlwind at some point. Not all real and true old cards of key players like Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb they will be fine. But many will hit a massive wall of reality.
Yes yes Michael Jordan I don't care you could buy a Babe Ruth rookie or 2 or 3. Or Detective Comics 27 21st Batman or a high grade Amazing Fantasy 15 1st Spiderman real iconic collectibles.
What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.
I get that I am 40 watched Jordan his whole career almost. But Babe Ruth all day over this card. Or 2 1986 Fleer PSA 10 cards. Or multiple Star rookie cards #101.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.
I get that I am 40 watched Jordan his whole career almost. But Babe Ruth all day over this card. Or 2 1986 Fleer PSA 10 cards. Or multiple Star rookie cards #101.
None of those have a game-used jersey + autograph on one card.
The number of people who want a Babe Ruth autograph is a fraction of the Jordan seekers. Don't believe me? You can buy a PSA certified Babe Ruth auto on eBay right now for just $12k.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.
I get that I am 40 watched Jordan his whole career almost. But Babe Ruth all day over this card. Or 2 1986 Fleer PSA 10 cards. Or multiple Star rookie cards #101.
None of those have a game-used jersey + autograph on one card.
The number of people who want a Babe Ruth autograph is a fraction of the Jordan seekers. Don't believe me? You can buy a PSA certified Babe Ruth auto on eBay right now for just $12k.
I see a downfall sorry I have been in cards since 1989. This is just major hype because people are at home and worried and want hard assets. No way is the buyer ever going to get 2$ million for that card.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.
I get that I am 40 watched Jordan his whole career almost. But Babe Ruth all day over this card. Or 2 1986 Fleer PSA 10 cards. Or multiple Star rookie cards #101.
None of those have a game-used jersey + autograph on one card.
The number of people who want a Babe Ruth autograph is a fraction of the Jordan seekers. Don't believe me? You can buy a PSA certified Babe Ruth auto on eBay right now for just $12k.
I see a downfall sorry I have been in cards since 1989. This is just major hype because people are at home and worried and want hard assets.
People have been at home for a year. This isn't that.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.
I get that I am 40 watched Jordan his whole career almost. But Babe Ruth all day over this card. Or 2 1986 Fleer PSA 10 cards. Or multiple Star rookie cards #101.
None of those have a game-used jersey + autograph on one card.
The number of people who want a Babe Ruth autograph is a fraction of the Jordan seekers. Don't believe me? You can buy a PSA certified Babe Ruth auto on eBay right now for just $12k.
I see a downfall sorry I have been in cards since 1989. This is just major hype because people are at home and worried and want hard assets.
People have been at home for a year. This isn't that.
Yes it is people are going to do more and more dumb things people that have zero experience in collectibles that are scared of the markets. This only started about 5-6 months ago so it falls right into that window.
I remember a Jordan Precious Metals Gem that sold for like 350k some years back. Internet trolls made fun of the buyer on cue. A few years later nearly three times the price. This card has been steadily rising for a long time. It’s a winner.
@Dpeck100 said:
I remember a Jordan Precious Medals Gem that sold for like 350k some years back. Internet trolls made fun of the buyer on cue. A few years later nearly three times the price. This card has been steadily rising for a long time. It’s a winner.
Maybe but this will not end well for most of the modern stuff 1980 onward.
That's your choice to invest in a player that (a) is irrelevant today and (b) you didn't see play. That's not what today's market wants. I would never want to pay money for that card. It doesn't speak to me. At. All.
Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of people adored (and still do) Michael Jordan. His global appeal and fame is unrivaled (except by perhaps LeBron James). Decades after his retirement, Michael Jordan remains an icon. The global demand for his shoes is unparalleled.
If you don't want to buy, as I said, that's your choice. But to denigrate someone else's passion is the antithesis of what collectors are supposed to abide by.
@jfkheat said:
I don't care what anyone says, no modern card is worth over $100,000.
Thousands upon thousands of people who vehemently disagree with you.
You're saying a PSA 10 Jordan 86 fleer isn't worth more than 100K? What about a PSA 10 Brady rookie?
That is exactly what I'm saying. Just because someone pays outrageous money for something doesn't mean it is worth what they paid. According to the pop report here are currently 316 PSA 10 1986 Fleer Jordans. With that many existing why should it be selling for $700,000 plus? There are major super star vintage rookie cards that there are only less that ten PSA 10s of that don't bring that kind of money. If the 316 Jordans are worth $700,000 then the 3 PSA 10 1952 Topps Mantle shoule be worth $100,000,000 or more.
The more modern rookies are something that the card manufacturers created to be scarce. Just because they put 1/1 or 1/10 on the card shouldn't make them worth hundreds of thousands or dollars.
@jfkheat said:
I don't care what anyone says, no modern card is worth over $100,000.
Thousands upon thousands of people who vehemently disagree with you.
You're saying a PSA 10 Jordan 86 fleer isn't worth more than 100K? What about a PSA 10 Brady rookie?
That is exactly what I'm saying. Just because someone pays outrageous money for something doesn't mean it is worth what they paid. According to the pop report here are currently 316 PSA 10 1986 Fleer Jordans. With that many existing why should it be selling for $700,000 plus? There are major super star vintage rookie cards that there are only less that ten PSA 10s of that don't bring that kind of money. If the 316 Jordans are worth $700,000 then the 3 PSA 10 1952 Topps Mantle shoule be worth $100,000,000 or more.
The more modern rookies are something that the card manufacturers created to be scarce. Just because they put 1/1 or 1/10 on the card shouldn't make them worth hundreds of thousands or dollars.
Just my opinion.
Modern rarities are a joke but each generation thinks they are not. Some prosper most will not.
@jfkheat said:
I don't care what anyone says, no modern card is worth over $100,000.
Thousands upon thousands of people who vehemently disagree with you.
You're saying a PSA 10 Jordan 86 fleer isn't worth more than 100K? What about a PSA 10 Brady rookie?
That is exactly what I'm saying. Just because someone pays outrageous money for something doesn't mean it is worth what they paid. According to the pop report here are currently 316 PSA 10 1986 Fleer Jordans. With that many existing why should it be selling for $700,000 plus? There are major super star vintage rookie cards that there are only less that ten PSA 10s of that don't bring that kind of money. If the 316 Jordans are worth $700,000 then the 3 PSA 10 1952 Topps Mantle shoule be worth $100,000,000 or more.
The more modern rookies are something that the card manufacturers created to be scarce. Just because they put 1/1 or 1/10 on the card shouldn't make them worth hundreds of thousands or dollars.
Just my opinion.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but scarcity does not alone drive value. There are plenty 1/1 cards out there that are worthless.
Jordan is more popular than Mantle. This is indisputable. Mantle is clearly popular - the $5.2 million PSA 9 sale recently completed proves that. But Jordan? He has no peer.
@jfkheat said:
I don't care what anyone says, no modern card is worth over $100,000.
Thousands upon thousands of people who vehemently disagree with you.
You're saying a PSA 10 Jordan 86 fleer isn't worth more than 100K? What about a PSA 10 Brady rookie?
That is exactly what I'm saying. Just because someone pays outrageous money for something doesn't mean it is worth what they paid. According to the pop report here are currently 316 PSA 10 1986 Fleer Jordans. With that many existing why should it be selling for $700,000 plus? There are major super star vintage rookie cards that there are only less that ten PSA 10s of that don't bring that kind of money. If the 316 Jordans are worth $700,000 then the 3 PSA 10 1952 Topps Mantle shoule be worth $100,000,000 or more.
The more modern rookies are something that the card manufacturers created to be scarce. Just because they put 1/1 or 1/10 on the card shouldn't make them worth hundreds of thousands or dollars.
Just my opinion.
Modern rarities are a joke but each generation thinks they are not. Some prosper most will not.
Somehow people fail to grasp the simple concept of supply and demand. On the surface, 316 cards sounds like a lot. But when you realize how many MILLIONS of people desire that card? It suddenly becomes a pittance.
@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Yes yes Michael Jordan I don't care you could buy a Babe Ruth rookie or 2 or 3. Or Detective Comics 27 21st Batman or a high grade Amazing Fantasy 15 1st Spiderman real iconic collectibles.
$1 million + for a fabricated rare item jersey with auto - have at it. I agree with you that for that kind of money I would rather have a Mantle rookie PSA 8, Aaron rookie PSA 9, 1915 Cobb PSA 8, 1986 Jordan PSA 9, AND several other big iconic rookie cards for the price of this one card # to 25. The vintage stuff is much rarer, and all a company has to do is create another batch of jersey cards # to 5 or 10 and they are now rarer than this one so they would now be worth more right?
Many of us have been around a long time on here as collectors and realize that in the last year there has been a huge acceleration in prices due to many factors. CoVid, boredom, cash is not worth much with interest rates these days, people are not spending money on vacations... BUT their 401k’s have been rising and their net worth is up and things are scarce. Want a new hot tub - backlog of a few years. New model of a Corvette - sold out. This is part extra money, new money, investors, NBA players and other high net worth people investing in cards and collectibles as an asset class AND manipulation is also going on.
People have been sitting on Jordan’s and other big cards, and it is not like people magically discovered in January of 2021 that “hey that Michael Jordan guy was pretty good and he sells a lot of shoes - maybe I should buy his rookies”. Why now all of the sudden is the demand there. It was not there last year at this time. Or in 2017 or 2014. He has not played a single game since then but his cards skyrocket. What changed during that time. Supply stayed the same but demand went up. Some real and some is being orchestrated. Let them pay $1 million for an UD jersey auto card, if they think it is worth that much let them spend their money on it. Those people spending huge money on 1990 Fleer Jordan 10’s and boxes will discover that supply is a lot more than they think, and when the market gets flooded and everyone owns enough of them what do you think happens to prices😉
@jfkheat said:
I don't care what anyone says, no modern card is worth over $100,000.
Thousands upon thousands of people who vehemently disagree with you.
You're saying a PSA 10 Jordan 86 fleer isn't worth more than 100K? What about a PSA 10 Brady rookie?
That is exactly what I'm saying. Just because someone pays outrageous money for something doesn't mean it is worth what they paid. According to the pop report here are currently 316 PSA 10 1986 Fleer Jordans. With that many existing why should it be selling for $700,000 plus? There are major super star vintage rookie cards that there are only less that ten PSA 10s of that don't bring that kind of money. If the 316 Jordans are worth $700,000 then the 3 PSA 10 1952 Topps Mantle shoule be worth $100,000,000 or more.
The more modern rookies are something that the card manufacturers created to be scarce. Just because they put 1/1 or 1/10 on the card shouldn't make them worth hundreds of thousands or dollars.
Just my opinion.
Modern rarities are a joke but each generation thinks they are not. Some prosper most will not.
Somehow people fail to grasp the simple concept of supply and demand. On the surface, 316 cards sounds like a lot. But when you realize how many MILLIONS of people desire that card? It suddenly becomes a pittance.
I know all this I have seen it over and over again for 3 decades. Jordan rookies in PSA 10 OK. But these numbered rarities no way.
@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Yes yes Michael Jordan I don't care you could buy a Babe Ruth rookie or 2 or 3. Or Detective Comics 27 21st Batman or a high grade Amazing Fantasy 15 1st Spiderman real iconic collectibles.
$1 million + for a fabricated rare item jersey with auto - have at it. I agree with you that for that kind of money I would rather have a Mantle rookie PSA 8, Aaron rookie PSA 9, 1915 Cobb PSA 8, 1986 Jordan PSA 9, AND several other big iconic rookie cards for the price of this one card # to 25. The vintage stuff is much rarer, and all a company has to do is create another batch of jersey cards # to 5 or 10 and they are now rarer than this one so they would now be worth more right?
Many of us have been around a long time on here as collectors and realize that in the last year there has been a huge acceleration in prices due to many factors. CoVid, boredom, cash is not worth much with interest rates these days, people are not spending money on vacations... BUT their 401k’s have been rising and their net worth is up and things are scarce. Want a new hot tub - backlog of a few years. New model of a Corvette - sold out. This is part extra money, new money, investors, NBA players and other high net worth people investing in cards and collectibles as an asset class AND manipulation is also going on.
People have been sitting on Jordan’s and other big cards, and it is not like people magically discovered in January of 2021 that “hey that Michael Jordan guy was pretty good and he sells a lot of shoes - maybe I should buy his rookies”. Why now all of the sudden is the demand there. It was not there last year at this time. Or in 2017 or 2014. He has not played a single game since then but his cards skyrocket. What changed during that time. Supply stayed the same but demand went up. Some real and some is being orchestrated. Let them pay $1 million for an UD jersey auto card, if they think it is worth that much let them spend their money on it. Those people spending huge money on 1990 Fleer Jordan 10’s and boxes will discover that supply is a lot more than they think, and when the market gets flooded and everyone owns enough of them what do you think happens to prices😉
A lot of people will wish they had not spent like this. No point warning it is always the same.
@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Yes yes Michael Jordan I don't care you could buy a Babe Ruth rookie or 2 or 3. Or Detective Comics 27 21st Batman or a high grade Amazing Fantasy 15 1st Spiderman real iconic collectibles.
$1 million + for a fabricated rare item jersey with auto - have at it. I agree with you that for that kind of money I would rather have a Mantle rookie PSA 8, Aaron rookie PSA 9, 1915 Cobb PSA 8, 1986 Jordan PSA 9, AND several other big iconic rookie cards for the price of this one card # to 25. The vintage stuff is much rarer, and all a company has to do is create another batch of jersey cards # to 5 or 10 and they are now rarer than this one so they would now be worth more right?
Many of us have been around a long time on here as collectors and realize that in the last year there has been a huge acceleration in prices due to many factors. CoVid, boredom, cash is not worth much with interest rates these days, people are not spending money on vacations... BUT their 401k’s have been rising and their net worth is up and things are scarce. Want a new hot tub - backlog of a few years. New model of a Corvette - sold out. This is part extra money, new money, investors, NBA players and other high net worth people investing in cards and collectibles as an asset class AND manipulation is also going on.
People have been sitting on Jordan’s and other big cards, and it is not like people magically discovered in January of 2021 that “hey that Michael Jordan guy was pretty good and he sells a lot of shoes - maybe I should buy his rookies”. Why now all of the sudden is the demand there. It was not there last year at this time. Or in 2017 or 2014. He has not played a single game since then but his cards skyrocket. What changed during that time. Supply stayed the same but demand went up. Some real and some is being orchestrated. Let them pay $1 million for an UD jersey auto card, if they think it is worth that much let them spend their money on it. Those people spending huge money on 1990 Fleer Jordan 10’s and boxes will discover that supply is a lot more than they think, and when the market gets flooded and everyone owns enough of them what do you think happens to prices😉
A lot of people will wish they had not spent like this. No point warning it is always the same. > @BriantheTaxGuy said:
I don't understand why people are so quick to condemn others purchases.
To what end?
To warn others not to fall pray because we have seeing it multiple times before. Some of us don't wish others to fall down or to crash a brand new shinny car full speed into a wall.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
Where was this advice when the mantle sold for 5 million?
No where the Mantle is the face of the entire hobby same as the T206 Wagner. Same as the Mona Lisa in paintings. Like Superman and Batman or more like Spiderman and Batman with the current generation.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
I don't understand why people are so quick to condemn others purchases.
To what end?
I'm not condemning what others spend their money on. There is no rational reason that a PSA 10 Jordan that could be bought for $40,000 a year ago or $25,000 two years ago should all of a sudden be a $700,000 card. As KendallCat said a little while ago, Jordan's status as a player, team owner or as a person in general hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to warrant the huge increase in the value of his cards.
I've often felt similarly to @KingOfMorganDollar. Manufactured scarcity isn't my thing. But the truth is that no matter how long I've collected, studied the hobby and bought and sold cards, my opinion is just one of the 2,000,000-or-so collectors in the U.S., and I have no idea how many worldwide. My personal feelings tell me vintage all day and twice on Sunday. But at 48 years old and coming from the set-building era that worshipped Mickey Mantle cards, I realize that my opinions don't necessarily match up with the under-30 collectors who love memorabilia pieces, manufactured scarcity and wouldn't dream of paying decent money for the card of a common player to finish a set.
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
@AFLfan said:
I've often felt similarly to @KingOfMorganDollar. Manufactured scarcity isn't my thing. But the truth is that no matter how long I've collected, studied the hobby and bought and sold cards, my opinion is just one of the 2,000,000-or-so collectors in the U.S., and I have no idea how many worldwide. My personal feelings tell me vintage all day and twice on Sunday. But at 48 years old and coming from the set-building era that worshipped Mickey Mantle cards, I realize that my opinions don't necessarily match up with the under-30 collectors who love memorabilia pieces, manufactured scarcity and wouldn't dream of paying decent money for the card of a common player to finish a set.
Like I said some will make out like bandits and live a great life once all the dust settle to the floor. Same as the stock market cycles.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
I don't understand why people are so quick to condemn others purchases.
To what end?
I'm not condemning what others spend their money on. There is no rational reason that a PSA 10 Jordan that could be bought for $40,000 a year ago or $25,000 two years ago should all of a sudden be a $700,000 card. As KendallCat said a little while ago, Jordan's status as a player, team owner or as a person in general hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to warrant the huge increase in the value of his cards.
It's not a rational landscape. This isn't milk and eggs. It's a market built largely on impulses. A huge segment of deep and largely younger pockets have returned to the hobby. Bye bye yesterdays prices. Would I pay these crazy prices? No. But I get it.
It's interesting to read people who believe the way things were is how they will always be. This same belief made room for Tesla to revolutionize the auto industry.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
It's interesting to read people who believe the way things were is how they will always be. This same belief made room for Tesla to revolutionize the auto industry.
Listen don't take the advice buy buy and buy modern. Right now is a great time to be a buyer especially 1/1's or the extra extra shinny stuff.
Hey divorce lawyers warn people some listen some don't.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
I don't understand why people are so quick to condemn others purchases.
To what end?
I'm not condemning what others spend their money on. There is no rational reason that a PSA 10 Jordan that could be bought for $40,000 a year ago or $25,000 two years ago should all of a sudden be a $700,000 card. As KendallCat said a little while ago, Jordan's status as a player, team owner or as a person in general hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to warrant the huge increase in the value of his cards.
It's not a rational landscape. This isn't milk and eggs. It's a market built largely on impulses. A huge segment of deep and largely younger pockets have returned to the hobby. Bye bye yesterdays prices. Would I pay these crazy prices? No. But I get it.
Not for ever they will fall. You wait and see. If I owned any of this stuff I would be selling it all right now.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
I don't understand why people are so quick to condemn others purchases.
To what end?
I'm not condemning what others spend their money on. There is no rational reason that a PSA 10 Jordan that could be bought for $40,000 a year ago or $25,000 two years ago should all of a sudden be a $700,000 card. As KendallCat said a little while ago, Jordan's status as a player, team owner or as a person in general hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to warrant the huge increase in the value of his cards.
It's not a rational landscape. This isn't milk and eggs. It's a market built largely on impulses. A huge segment of deep and largely younger pockets have returned to the hobby. Bye bye yesterdays prices. Would I pay these crazy prices? No. But I get it.
Not for ever they will fall. You wait and see. If I owned any of this stuff I would be selling it all right now.
Someone who clearly doesn't have his finger on the pulse of modern buyers making such a bold prediction is curious at best.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
I don't understand why people are so quick to condemn others purchases.
To what end?
I'm not condemning what others spend their money on. There is no rational reason that a PSA 10 Jordan that could be bought for $40,000 a year ago or $25,000 two years ago should all of a sudden be a $700,000 card. As KendallCat said a little while ago, Jordan's status as a player, team owner or as a person in general hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to warrant the huge increase in the value of his cards.
It's not a rational landscape. This isn't milk and eggs. It's a market built largely on impulses. A huge segment of deep and largely younger pockets have returned to the hobby. Bye bye yesterdays prices. Would I pay these crazy prices? No. But I get it.
Not for ever they will fall. You wait and see. If I owned any of this stuff I would be selling it all right now.
Someone who clearly doesn't have his finger on the pulse of modern buyers making such a bold prediction is curious at best.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
I don't understand why people are so quick to condemn others purchases.
To what end?
I'm not condemning what others spend their money on. There is no rational reason that a PSA 10 Jordan that could be bought for $40,000 a year ago or $25,000 two years ago should all of a sudden be a $700,000 card. As KendallCat said a little while ago, Jordan's status as a player, team owner or as a person in general hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to warrant the huge increase in the value of his cards.
It's not a rational landscape. This isn't milk and eggs. It's a market built largely on impulses. A huge segment of deep and largely younger pockets have returned to the hobby. Bye bye yesterdays prices. Would I pay these crazy prices? No. But I get it.
Not for ever they will fall. You wait and see. If I owned any of this stuff I would be selling it all right now.
Someone who clearly doesn't have his finger on the pulse of modern buyers making such a bold prediction is curious at best.
I don't need luck. The fact that people are unwilling or unable to fathom market forces are at work beyond their comprehension and yet they feel compelled to broadcast it is intriguing to watch.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
I don't need luck. The fact that people are unwilling or unable to fathom market forces are at work beyond their comprehension and yet they feel compelled to broadcast it is intriguing to watch.
Yes I know every young generation knows better (we older folks have zero experience) like I said good luck.
You don't have a crystal ball and have no insight into the modern market by your own admission.
Yet you feel compelled to dismiss the entire market out of hand and anyone who buys into it making a mistake.
Just admit it's outside your purview and don't know what's going to happen. Because suggesting the price run up that has happened in the past is certain to again is folly.
Oh I know the modern hobby very well never said I did not. I follow all auctions and know them well. My hobbies are my life and I follow them closely and have for decades. I have been doing so almost daily for close to 31 years. Coins (US, Canada and Mexico), all sports cards and comic books (mostly Golden age and Silver age and some Bronze age). Even Pokemon and MTG.
Life after university gets boring (real boring) we need to keep a daily routine of constant learning hence my hobbies and many many books on my core field of study. Otherwise we go brain dead aka bored out of our minds.
For someone who has been following it daily you sure missed the boat on investing in modern.
A keen observer such as yourself surely must have foreseen the tremendous gains on the table and made a fortune in timing the market as astutely as you claim to be.
I'll leave this thread with this: people buying what they want for what they want is what our hobby is based upon. Sitting there in judgement, condemning the purchase as foolish or dumb is the antithesis of what the hobby is support.
Enjoy what you want. Stop passing judgment on others. And please, for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending to see the future and state how you know what's going to happen.
@BriantheTaxGuy said:
For someone who has been following it daily you sure missed the boat on investing in modern.
A keen observer such as yourself surely must have foreseen the tremendous gains on the table and made a fortune in timing the market as astutely as you claim to be.
I'll leave this thread with this: people buying what they want for what they want is what our hobby is based upon. Sitting there in judgement, condemning the purchase as foolish or dumb is the antithesis of what the hobby is support.
Enjoy what you want. Stop passing judgment on others. And please, for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending to see the future and state how you know what's going to happen.
I don't care to invest in them I know it's all hype 99% of it. Would not touch them wit ha ten foot pole. I have other things that have done very well and will continue to do so like they always have over decades. There is nothing new under the sun everything is rinse and repeat you will learn that over time. I paid 500$ for my PSA 7 Jordan 86 Fleer years ago now that is a good investment. As I did for many other key cards buy low sell high. I own many of them paid little to nothing for them like my 1979 OPC Gretzky another 500$ for a PSA 8.
Comments
The card hobby will reap a whirlwind at some point. Not all real and true old cards of key players like Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb they will be fine. But many will hit a massive wall of reality.
Yes yes Michael Jordan I don't care you could buy a Babe Ruth rookie or 2 or 3. Or Detective Comics 27 21st Batman or a high grade Amazing Fantasy 15 1st Spiderman real iconic collectibles.
People have lost their minds confined at home for a year. Looking for hard assets. Buy real rookie cards of major name players.
What collectors of a certain age won't or can't understand is players like Jordan are as iconic to a GLOBAL population and is much more popular than old timey ball players.
Don't believe me? Tell me what shoes any other athlete has. Meanwhile, Jordan earns more annually from shoe sales than he did in his NBA career.
Jordan is Ruth. Hell, he's more popular than Ruth.
I don't care what anyone says, no modern card is worth over $100,000.
I get that I am 40 watched Jordan his whole career almost. But Babe Ruth all day over this card. Or 2 1986 Fleer PSA 10 cards. Or multiple Star rookie cards #101.
Thousands upon thousands of people who vehemently disagree with you.
You're saying a PSA 10 Jordan 86 fleer isn't worth more than 100K? What about a PSA 10 Brady rookie?
Buy a real rarity like the 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth. Only 10 exist or 9 not sure.
Maybe a few modern should be like Wayne Gretzky PSA 10 OPC rookie only 2 exist. But not many moderns should even reach near that.
None of those have a game-used jersey + autograph on one card.
The number of people who want a Babe Ruth autograph is a fraction of the Jordan seekers. Don't believe me? You can buy a PSA certified Babe Ruth auto on eBay right now for just $12k.
I see a downfall sorry I have been in cards since 1989. This is just major hype because people are at home and worried and want hard assets. No way is the buyer ever going to get 2$ million for that card.
People have been at home for a year. This isn't that.
Yes it is people are going to do more and more dumb things people that have zero experience in collectibles that are scared of the markets. This only started about 5-6 months ago so it falls right into that window.
1.5$ million buy something that is tested threw time.
I remember a Jordan Precious Metals Gem that sold for like 350k some years back. Internet trolls made fun of the buyer on cue. A few years later nearly three times the price. This card has been steadily rising for a long time. It’s a winner.
Maybe but this will not end well for most of the modern stuff 1980 onward.
Real iconic rarities.
That's your choice to invest in a player that (a) is irrelevant today and (b) you didn't see play. That's not what today's market wants. I would never want to pay money for that card. It doesn't speak to me. At. All.
Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of people adored (and still do) Michael Jordan. His global appeal and fame is unrivaled (except by perhaps LeBron James). Decades after his retirement, Michael Jordan remains an icon. The global demand for his shoes is unparalleled.
If you don't want to buy, as I said, that's your choice. But to denigrate someone else's passion is the antithesis of what collectors are supposed to abide by.
No enjoy the cards I agree but some people and I think many will regret it money wise.
That is exactly what I'm saying. Just because someone pays outrageous money for something doesn't mean it is worth what they paid. According to the pop report here are currently 316 PSA 10 1986 Fleer Jordans. With that many existing why should it be selling for $700,000 plus? There are major super star vintage rookie cards that there are only less that ten PSA 10s of that don't bring that kind of money. If the 316 Jordans are worth $700,000 then the 3 PSA 10 1952 Topps Mantle shoule be worth $100,000,000 or more.
The more modern rookies are something that the card manufacturers created to be scarce. Just because they put 1/1 or 1/10 on the card shouldn't make them worth hundreds of thousands or dollars.
Just my opinion.
Modern rarities are a joke but each generation thinks they are not. Some prosper most will not.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but scarcity does not alone drive value. There are plenty 1/1 cards out there that are worthless.
Jordan is more popular than Mantle. This is indisputable. Mantle is clearly popular - the $5.2 million PSA 9 sale recently completed proves that. But Jordan? He has no peer.
Somehow people fail to grasp the simple concept of supply and demand. On the surface, 316 cards sounds like a lot. But when you realize how many MILLIONS of people desire that card? It suddenly becomes a pittance.
We will see in a few years but if I had a friend that wanted to spend money I would direct him to real time tested cards.
$1 million + for a fabricated rare item jersey with auto - have at it. I agree with you that for that kind of money I would rather have a Mantle rookie PSA 8, Aaron rookie PSA 9, 1915 Cobb PSA 8, 1986 Jordan PSA 9, AND several other big iconic rookie cards for the price of this one card # to 25. The vintage stuff is much rarer, and all a company has to do is create another batch of jersey cards # to 5 or 10 and they are now rarer than this one so they would now be worth more right?
Many of us have been around a long time on here as collectors and realize that in the last year there has been a huge acceleration in prices due to many factors. CoVid, boredom, cash is not worth much with interest rates these days, people are not spending money on vacations... BUT their 401k’s have been rising and their net worth is up and things are scarce. Want a new hot tub - backlog of a few years. New model of a Corvette - sold out. This is part extra money, new money, investors, NBA players and other high net worth people investing in cards and collectibles as an asset class AND manipulation is also going on.
People have been sitting on Jordan’s and other big cards, and it is not like people magically discovered in January of 2021 that “hey that Michael Jordan guy was pretty good and he sells a lot of shoes - maybe I should buy his rookies”. Why now all of the sudden is the demand there. It was not there last year at this time. Or in 2017 or 2014. He has not played a single game since then but his cards skyrocket. What changed during that time. Supply stayed the same but demand went up. Some real and some is being orchestrated. Let them pay $1 million for an UD jersey auto card, if they think it is worth that much let them spend their money on it. Those people spending huge money on 1990 Fleer Jordan 10’s and boxes will discover that supply is a lot more than they think, and when the market gets flooded and everyone owns enough of them what do you think happens to prices😉
I know all this I have seen it over and over again for 3 decades. Jordan rookies in PSA 10 OK. But these numbered rarities no way.
A lot of people will wish they had not spent like this. No point warning it is always the same.
Without asking him what cards he wants?
I don't understand why people are so quick to condemn others purchases.
To what end?
Some will make off like bandits it is always the same.
A lot of people will wish they had not spent like this. No point warning it is always the same. > @BriantheTaxGuy said:
To warn others not to fall pray because we have seeing it multiple times before. Some of us don't wish others to fall down or to crash a brand new shinny car full speed into a wall.
Where was this advice when the mantle sold for 5 million?
No where the Mantle is the face of the entire hobby same as the T206 Wagner. Same as the Mona Lisa in paintings. Like Superman and Batman or more like Spiderman and Batman with the current generation.
I'm not condemning what others spend their money on. There is no rational reason that a PSA 10 Jordan that could be bought for $40,000 a year ago or $25,000 two years ago should all of a sudden be a $700,000 card. As KendallCat said a little while ago, Jordan's status as a player, team owner or as a person in general hasn't changed. He hasn't done anything to warrant the huge increase in the value of his cards.
I've often felt similarly to @KingOfMorganDollar. Manufactured scarcity isn't my thing. But the truth is that no matter how long I've collected, studied the hobby and bought and sold cards, my opinion is just one of the 2,000,000-or-so collectors in the U.S., and I have no idea how many worldwide. My personal feelings tell me vintage all day and twice on Sunday. But at 48 years old and coming from the set-building era that worshipped Mickey Mantle cards, I realize that my opinions don't necessarily match up with the under-30 collectors who love memorabilia pieces, manufactured scarcity and wouldn't dream of paying decent money for the card of a common player to finish a set.
Like I said some will make out like bandits and live a great life once all the dust settle to the floor. Same as the stock market cycles.
It's not a rational landscape. This isn't milk and eggs. It's a market built largely on impulses. A huge segment of deep and largely younger pockets have returned to the hobby. Bye bye yesterdays prices. Would I pay these crazy prices? No. But I get it.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
It's interesting to read people who believe the way things were is how they will always be. This same belief made room for Tesla to revolutionize the auto industry.
Listen don't take the advice buy buy and buy modern. Right now is a great time to be a buyer especially 1/1's or the extra extra shinny stuff.
Hey divorce lawyers warn people some listen some don't.
Not for ever they will fall. You wait and see. If I owned any of this stuff I would be selling it all right now.
Someone who clearly doesn't have his finger on the pulse of modern buyers making such a bold prediction is curious at best.
Good luck you will need it!!
I don't need luck. The fact that people are unwilling or unable to fathom market forces are at work beyond their comprehension and yet they feel compelled to broadcast it is intriguing to watch.
Yes I know every young generation knows better (we older folks have zero experience) like I said good luck.
And every old timer thinks they know everything.
Yes at 40 we are so very old. Enjoy your modern day cards.
You don't have a crystal ball and have no insight into the modern market by your own admission.
Yet you feel compelled to dismiss the entire market out of hand and anyone who buys into it making a mistake.
Just admit it's outside your purview and don't know what's going to happen. Because suggesting the price run up that has happened in the past is certain to again is folly.
Oh I know the modern hobby very well never said I did not. I follow all auctions and know them well. My hobbies are my life and I follow them closely and have for decades. I have been doing so almost daily for close to 31 years. Coins (US, Canada and Mexico), all sports cards and comic books (mostly Golden age and Silver age and some Bronze age). Even Pokemon and MTG.
Life after university gets boring (real boring) we need to keep a daily routine of constant learning hence my hobbies and many many books on my core field of study. Otherwise we go brain dead aka bored out of our minds.
For someone who has been following it daily you sure missed the boat on investing in modern.
A keen observer such as yourself surely must have foreseen the tremendous gains on the table and made a fortune in timing the market as astutely as you claim to be.
I'll leave this thread with this: people buying what they want for what they want is what our hobby is based upon. Sitting there in judgement, condemning the purchase as foolish or dumb is the antithesis of what the hobby is support.
Enjoy what you want. Stop passing judgment on others. And please, for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending to see the future and state how you know what's going to happen.
I don't care to invest in them I know it's all hype 99% of it. Would not touch them wit ha ten foot pole. I have other things that have done very well and will continue to do so like they always have over decades. There is nothing new under the sun everything is rinse and repeat you will learn that over time. I paid 500$ for my PSA 7 Jordan 86 Fleer years ago now that is a good investment. As I did for many other key cards buy low sell high. I own many of them paid little to nothing for them like my 1979 OPC Gretzky another 500$ for a PSA 8.