From 1939-1941, Jackie Robinson made his mark at UCLA as a four-sport star for the Bruins: in football, a peerless running back; in basketball, the leading scorer; in track, a national champion; and in baseball, a highly-regarded shortstop.
Played past 1950 for the Dodgers
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11 posts already, and nobody has mentioned Jordan? I do have to agree with the Bo Jackson / Jim Thorpe comment. I really like the Jim Thorpe comment. While we don't necessarily see it that way, IIRC, there was a greatest athlete of all time list done in 1950, and Jim Thorpe came in first with Babe Ruth right behind.
For me, the two in consideration for "Best Athlete" since Jim Thorpe; notice it is not Best "Hockey"/"Baseball"/"Football"/"Basketball" Player, are Dave Winfield and Bo Jackson.
@SDSportsFan said:
For me, the two in consideration for "Best Athlete" since Jim Thorpe; notice it is not Best "Hockey"/"Baseball"/"Football"/"Basketball" Player, are Dave Winfield and Bo Jackson.
Everyone else is fighting for Third Place.
Steve
Tom Glavine was drafted ahead of HOFers Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille by the NHL and was a better baseball player than Winfield.
The title of the thread is greatest athlete since 1950. It does not give a criteria though. Some feel a great athlete is one who played multiple sports, but I think most would agree that when we think of greatness, we think of individual records in their sport that will never be broken, along with championships. Wayne Gretzky is one who comes to mind, because he has many records that may never be broken. However, many in the hockey world will correctly tell you that 9 times out of 10, five Bobby Orrs would beat 5 Wayne Gretzky’s in a hockey game. Orr was just that dominant in both ends of the ice, and way too strong and just as quick, if not quicker than Wayne. The only reasonable choice when we think of championships and records is Secretariat. Yes, others have won the triple crown since the 1970s, but Secretariats track records will never be approached or broken. No other athlete outside of Gretzky or Orr has a record that you can say will never be broken (not including steroids).
@Goldenage said:
The title of the thread is greatest athlete since 1950. It does not give a criteria though. Some feel a great athlete is one who played multiple sports, but I think most would agree that when we think of greatness, we think of individual records in their sport that will never be broken, along with championships. Wayne Gretzky is one who comes to mind, because he has many records that may never be broken. However, many in the hockey world will correctly tell you that 9 times out of 10, five Bobby Orrs would beat 5 Wayne Gretzky’s in a hockey game. Orr was just that dominant in both ends of the ice, and way too strong and just as quick, if not quicker than Wayne. The only reasonable choice when we think of championships and records is Secretariat. Yes, others have won the triple crown since the 1970s, but Secretariats track records will never be approached or broken. No other athlete outside of Gretzky or Orr has a record that you can say will never be broken (not including steroids).
My apologies to the horse guys, but Secretariat is an insane answer. Not going to bother elaborating.
5 Orr's might beat 5 Gretzky's, as a "Hockey guy", I am not so sure. Orr was great individually with the puck, but Wayne was an incredible passer. Bobby might have trouble getting the puck. Gretzky was a pretty slightly built player as well, so other than hockey I don't rate him as high as others.
Secondly there's only one of each of any player so "5 of one Vs 5 of the other" is kind of meaningless, it doesn't work that way.
To me, a "best" athlete has to be good at multiple sports/games and an added bonus for speed/strength.
Bo does come to mind, and over Sanders because of his strength combined with speed, although both were much better football players. Jim Brown was an incredible athlete as well.
Other guys who were drafted but never played those sports, don't quite make it for me either, how do we know Glavine or Winfield would have made it to the pros? Winfield got drafted by the Vikings as a football player when he hadn't played since High School.
Don't forget Chuck Connors, who made it to the pros in both Basketball and Baseball. Good actor too!
Of course MJ was incredibly gifted, even if he played only one sport. I am not counting his baseball career.
I'll stick with Jenner, who competed against the best athletes in the world in an event that is supposed to determine the best overall athlete in multiple sports, both strength, speed and and endurance.
Of the 13 decathlons Jenner competed in between 1973 and 1976, the only loss was at the 1975 AAU National Championships, when a "no height" in the pole vault marred the score.
Jenner, however didn't compete in a sport like football or wrestling where an opponent is actually physically pitted against you. If that's got to be a factor, I'll take Mr. Bo Jackson, barely over MJ.
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@Goldenage said:
The title of the thread is greatest athlete since 1950. It does not give a criteria though. Some feel a great athlete is one who played multiple sports, but I think most would agree that when we think of greatness, we think of individual records in their sport that will never be broken, along with championships. Wayne Gretzky is one who comes to mind, because he has many records that may never be broken. However, many in the hockey world will correctly tell you that 9 times out of 10, five Bobby Orrs would beat 5 Wayne Gretzky’s in a hockey game. Orr was just that dominant in both ends of the ice, and way too strong and just as quick, if not quicker than Wayne. The only reasonable choice when we think of championships and records is Secretariat. Yes, others have won the triple crown since the 1970s, but Secretariats track records will never be approached or broken. No other athlete outside of Gretzky or Orr has a record that you can say will never be broken (not including steroids).
My apologies to the horse guys, but Secretariat is an insane answer. Not going to bother elaborating.
5 Orr's might beat 5 Gretzky's, as a "Hockey guy", I am not so sure. Orr was great individually with the puck, but Wayne was an incredible passer. Bobby might have trouble getting the puck. Gretzky was a pretty slightly built player as well, so other than hockey I don't rate him as high as others.
Secondly there's only one of each of any player so "5 of one Vs 5 of the other" is kind of meaningless, it doesn't work that way.
To me, a "best" athlete has to be good at multiple sports/games and an added bonus for speed/strength.
Bo does come to mind, and over Sanders because of his strength combined with speed, although both were much better football players. Jim Brown was an incredible athlete as well.
Other guys who were drafted but never played those sports, don't quite make it for me either, how do we know Glavine or Winfield would have made it to the pros? Winfield got drafted by the Vikings as a football player when he hadn't played since High School.
Don't forget Chuck Connors, who made it to the pros in both Basketball and Baseball. Good actor too!
Of course MJ was incredibly gifted, even if he played only one sport. I am not counting his baseball career.
I'll stick with Jenner, who competed against the best athletes in the world in an event that is supposed to determine the best overall athlete in multiple sports, both strength, speed and and endurance.
Of the 13 decathlons Jenner competed in between 1973 and 1976, the only loss was at the 1975 AAU National Championships, when a "no height" in the pole vault marred the score.
Jenner, however didn't compete in a sport like football or wrestling where an opponent is actually physically pitted against you. If that's got to be a factor, I'll take Mr. Bo Jackson, barely over MJ.
I will stick with Secretariat, and your Jenner is fine, but I have heard baseball/football guys names like Jackson, Winfield, and Sanders, yet no one has mentioned the one guy who had better minor league baseball stats and a better pro football career than all them. John Elway
@2dueces said:
Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete in the last 100 years. Before him Jim Thorpe
John Elway had better minor league baseball stats and had a better pro football career than Bo. Elway was head and shoulders above anyone mentioned so far here. Elway hit .361 as a sophomore at Stanford, and hit .313 with 150 plus plate appearances in the minor leagues. He could of easily been the next Don Mattingly. He was that good.
@2dueces said:
Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete in the last 100 years. Before him Jim Thorpe
John Elway had better minor league baseball stats and had a better pro football career than Bo. Elway was head and shoulders above anyone mentioned so far here. Elway hit .361 as a sophomore at Stanford, and hit .313 with 150 plus plate appearances in the minor leagues. He could of easily been the next Don Mattingly. He was that good.
He played 42 games at a very low minor league level and hit .318 with 4 homers. That's fine but it's not exactly amazing.
And Deion was a better pro than Elway. Sanders was arguably the best of all-time. Elway was nit the best QB of all-time. And Deion's baseball career was obviously a million times better.
@Goldenage said:
The title of the thread is greatest athlete since 1950. It does not give a criteria though. Some feel a great athlete is one who played multiple sports, but I think most would agree that when we think of greatness, we think of individual records in their sport that will never be broken, along with championships. Wayne Gretzky is one who comes to mind, because he has many records that may never be broken. However, many in the hockey world will correctly tell you that 9 times out of 10, five Bobby Orrs would beat 5 Wayne Gretzky’s in a hockey game. Orr was just that dominant in both ends of the ice, and way too strong and just as quick, if not quicker than Wayne. The only reasonable choice when we think of championships and records is Secretariat. Yes, others have won the triple crown since the 1970s, but Secretariats track records will never be approached or broken. No other athlete outside of Gretzky or Orr has a record that you can say will never be broken (not including steroids).
The 5 Orrs vs 5 Gretzkys thing makes no sense. 9 Don Drysdale would destroy 9 Albert Pujols but Al was a way better player. So what?
@Goldenage said:
The title of the thread is greatest athlete since 1950. It does not give a criteria though. Some feel a great athlete is one who played multiple sports, but I think most would agree that when we think of greatness, we think of individual records in their sport that will never be broken, along with championships. Wayne Gretzky is one who comes to mind, because he has many records that may never be broken. However, many in the hockey world will correctly tell you that 9 times out of 10, five Bobby Orrs would beat 5 Wayne Gretzky’s in a hockey game. Orr was just that dominant in both ends of the ice, and way too strong and just as quick, if not quicker than Wayne. The only reasonable choice when we think of championships and records is Secretariat. Yes, others have won the triple crown since the 1970s, but Secretariats track records will never be approached or broken. No other athlete outside of Gretzky or Orr has a record that you can say will never be broken (not including steroids).
My apologies to the horse guys, but Secretariat is an insane answer. Not going to bother elaborating.
5 Orr's might beat 5 Gretzky's, as a "Hockey guy", I am not so sure. Orr was great individually with the puck, but Wayne was an incredible passer. Bobby might have trouble getting the puck. Gretzky was a pretty slightly built player as well, so other than hockey I don't rate him as high as others.
Secondly there's only one of each of any player so "5 of one Vs 5 of the other" is kind of meaningless, it doesn't work that way.
To me, a "best" athlete has to be good at multiple sports/games and an added bonus for speed/strength.
Bo does come to mind, and over Sanders because of his strength combined with speed, although both were much better football players. Jim Brown was an incredible athlete as well.
Other guys who were drafted but never played those sports, don't quite make it for me either, how do we know Glavine or Winfield would have made it to the pros? Winfield got drafted by the Vikings as a football player when he hadn't played since High School.
Don't forget Chuck Connors, who made it to the pros in both Basketball and Baseball. Good actor too!
Of course MJ was incredibly gifted, even if he played only one sport. I am not counting his baseball career.
I'll stick with Jenner, who competed against the best athletes in the world in an event that is supposed to determine the best overall athlete in multiple sports, both strength, speed and and endurance.
Of the 13 decathlons Jenner competed in between 1973 and 1976, the only loss was at the 1975 AAU National Championships, when a "no height" in the pole vault marred the score.
Jenner, however didn't compete in a sport like football or wrestling where an opponent is actually physically pitted against you. If that's got to be a factor, I'll take Mr. Bo Jackson, barely over MJ.
I will stick with Secretariat, and your Jenner is fine, but I have heard baseball/football guys names like Jackson, Winfield, and Sanders, yet no one has mentioned the one guy who had better minor league baseball stats and a better pro football career than all them. John Elway
Since all a horse can do is run and is not a human, I really don't get it, but that's your prerogative.
How about Flipper or Gentle Ben? ;-) Lassie was a great runner too! LOL
@2dueces said:
Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete in the last 100 years. Before him Jim Thorpe
John Elway had better minor league baseball stats and had a better pro football career than Bo. Elway was head and shoulders above anyone mentioned so far here. Elway hit .361 as a sophomore at Stanford, and hit .313 with 150 plus plate appearances in the minor leagues. He could of easily been the next Don Mattingly. He was that good.
Hitting well in College is nothing, what he did in A ball isn't much. I seriously doubt he was going to be as good as Mattingly, but you never know. 42 games is not much of a "career".
Elway was a terrific athlete, no argument there. Having a "better" pro career isn't the same as being the "best" athlete though.
At least he's a human, I hear Secretariat couldn't hit a curve ball.
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My interpretation was based on the ‘all around’ approach. A player of a sport - even a star - may or may not be a great athlete. Cecil Fielder and John Daly had aspects of the sport they dominated that made them significant but I don’t know if either would garner the ‘athlete’ label. Michael Phelps is a great swimmer but can he make a 3? Can he throw a ball?
I am probably biased but I view a basketball player - hand-eye coordination, run for speed and endurance, jump, catch, throw, physical contact - as probably displaying the most consistent and constant range of athleticism in my eyes.
Those basic skills above are foundations for all sport. The well rounded athlete possesses all of them.
I see a ton of great names mentioned here. I wanted to toss out a name of a guy some may not remember; he won the Heisman by the widest margin since OJ Simpson (and 4th all time margin), had a long and distinguished NBA career, was also a pro caliber baseball and tennis player and helped Florida State to their first ever National Title in 1993. Obviously, Charlie Ward is probably not on the level of some of the previous names but he was still a pretty terrific and accomplished athlete.
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Lol. Only a horse can do is run. Caitlyn Jenner only ran, with a few throwing events included. Both athletes won mostly with their legs, and Caitlyns records aren’t as impressive as Big Reds. No, Secretariat couldn’t hit a curve, lol, nor could Caitlyn hit a screwball.
Not to rain on anyone’s parade but I do think we all have on some rose colored glasses with Bo Jackson. I loved Bo Jackson but somewhere along the way he morphed from a ‘what could have been’ to a ‘was’ when in actuality he accomplished very little as a pro athlete. He scored 16 career TDs, played in 38 games and made one Pro Bowl in four seasons. He managed to play parts of 8 baseball seasons, and made an All-Star game but he hit .250 for his career and while he snapped bats, hit some home runs and made some great catches early in his career, he was basically a below average player most of his career. Bonus points for being linked up with Gretzky and Jordan for a cool cartoon, a great college career and running over Brian Bozworth and up the wall like Spider-Man after a catch.
So while I can give him the title of “could have been the best athlete” since 1950, there’s not enough there to give Bo Jackson the crown of “best athlete”, in my eyes.
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@Goldenage said:
Lol. Only a horse can do is run. Caitlyn Jenner only ran, with a few throwing events included. Both athletes won mostly with their legs, and Caitlyns records aren’t as impressive as Big Reds. No, Secretariat couldn’t hit a curve, lol, nor could Caitlyn hit a screwball.
Love to see the horse try to pole vault!
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Not to rain on anyone’s parade but I do think we all have on some rose colored glasses with Bo Jackson. I loved Bo Jackson but somewhere along the way he morphed from a ‘what could have been’ to a ‘was’ when in actuality he accomplished very little as a pro athlete. He scored 16 career TDs, played in 38 games and made one Pro Bowl in four seasons. He managed to play parts of 8 baseball seasons, and made an All-Star game but he hit .250 for his career and while he snapped bats, hit some home runs and made some great catches early in his career, he was basically a below average player most of his career. Bonus points for being linked up with Gretzky and Jordan for a cool cartoon, a great college career and running over Brian Bozworth and up the wall like Spider-Man after a catch.
So while I can give him the title of “could have been the best athlete” since 1950, there’s not enough there to give Bo Jackson the crown of “best athlete”, in my eyes.
Here, as with many of the threads, it depends on your point of view. We even have an animal being nominated!
Bo did not have a great career in baseball, he had one very good year, one HOF type year and a few that were about average. He also had a couple of very good years running the ball in the NFL.
He was able to make the all star team in each sport. Of course he was injured and his career(s) ended prematurely.
Bo Jackson was not a HOF baseball or Football player, he may have made it in the NFL's HOF had he not been hurt. He was the most gifted athletically imo. No rose colored glasses for me. His short career shouldn't disqualify him.
Jenner was a World Champion in an event that encompasses several different sports, so he's definitely a great all around athlete.
Deion made the NFL HOF and had one superb year in the MLB, he deserves consideration too.
MJ was of course another phenomenal athlete, as was JB.
This would be my top 5.
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@1951WheatiesPremium said:
My interpretation was based on the ‘all around’ approach. A player of a sport - even a star - may or may not be a great athlete. Cecil Fielder and John Daly had aspects of the sport they dominated that made them significant but I don’t know if either would garner the ‘athlete’ label. Michael Phelps is a great swimmer but can he make a 3? Can he throw a ball?
I am probably biased but I view a basketball player - hand-eye coordination, run for speed and endurance, jump, catch, throw, physical contact - as probably displaying the most consistent and constant range of athleticism in my eyes.
Those basic skills above are foundations for all sport. The well rounded athlete possesses all of them.
I see a ton of great names mentioned here. I wanted to toss out a name of a guy some may not remember; he won the Heisman by the widest margin since OJ Simpson (and 4th all time margin), had a long and distinguished NBA career, was also a pro caliber baseball and tennis player and helped Florida State to their first ever National Title in 1993. Obviously, Charlie Ward is probably not on the level of some of the previous names but he was still a pretty terrific and accomplished athlete.
Charlie Ward is a great name to add. I remember watching him play in the NBA and announcers would often discuss his multi-sport proficiency.
I would vote for Michael Jordan. I know he didn’t make it as a baseball player, but what did as. a basketball player was remarkable.
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If the criteria is for an athlete to be a standout in more than one sport, I have yet to hear the name Kenny Lofton. An all star level Baseball player and a very good basketball player.
I think Deion was the best two sport athlete. A hall of fame football player. Possibly the best ever at his position. A good baseball player for a number of years.
with most of the really talented, gifted, multi-sport athletes, it's hard to make a clear choice. look at a guy like Danny Ainge: good enough to play in MLB for a few seasons and then move to the NBA where he had a successful career. another guy is Dave Logan: drafted by the Cincinnatti Reds out of HS, he opted to go to College. he was then drafted by the NBA(9th round) and the NFL(3rd round). I'm sure there are numerous other examples that could be cited.
it's interesting how these greatest of the great athletes move as they age. they are multi-sport standouts in HS, tend to focus on 1-2 sports in College and then focus on only where they perceive their strength to be as a professional. I know that some will laugh when I say this, but I believe that Baseball is the most difficult of all the major sports to play at the highest level. my reason for saying that is because of the specialized skill set required and the time it takes to perfect those skills.
ironically, MLB has some of the most un-physically fit athletes around and many players are just average size, guys that might only be 5'8" and weigh about 170 can make it in the majors. I remember Denny McClain going, what, 30-5 that one year and they made him lose weight because he was kind of fat: suddenly he couldn't pitch!! they let him get fat again.
Football and Basketball, almost without exception, are comprised of the largest and most physically capable people on earth. on top of that, they seem to be able to do freakish things that ordinary people can't learn no matter how much they practice, and those things come naturally to them. even Hockey players are able to do things that really can't be taught. these guys have just been gifted by the Maker and can go from College to the pro's. then we have those Baseball players that need 3-5 years more practice, no matter how good they are.
that's my reasoning for why the guys that should be considered are the Bo Jacksons and the Jim Browns and the Dave Winfields and the John Havliceks of the World. these are guys who just seem to have been gifted enough to play any sport they tried to play at a high level. maybe they don't have the perceived greatness that fans assign by way of titles or to players who have come before/after them, but they were far, far superior to their contemporaries. that's why Jim Thorpe was so special: during his lifetime he could do almost anything in the sporting world better than anyone else alive.
I remember Dave Logan in high school. I was a sophomore at a high school in the City of Denver in 1971-1972. Dave Logan was a senior at Wheatridge high school in the Denver suburbs.
He was a three sports star (Football, Basketball and Baseball) and the talk of the town his senior year. He dominated. He then played college football at Colorado and as you know played in the NFL (for the Browns I think).
He is an icon in Denver and in Colorado and to this day is still in the game (a sports broadcaster).
In 1978 was in my last year of college. Our hoops team had games in Denver in January or February. We stayed over the weekend and on an off day our coach (who had connections) got his players tickets to see the Denver Nuggets play the Boston Celtics at McNichols Arena.
Hondo's final season in the NBA was 1977-1978. I thus got to see him play one of his last games. He was 38 years old at the time and looked older. He was amazing for one primary reason. He had a motor in him that allowed him to play unlimited minutes at Full Speed. He never stopped moving on the court and he always moved at top speed, with a purpose in the game I watched. He literally ran players 10-15 years younger than him into the ground. The could not keep up. On top of his motor he also was highly skilled.
It is amazing to see people with physical skills, ability and talent that is freakishly off the charts good. Take those persons and draw from them those really special persons who also have the drive and fire and competitiveness to go above and beyond their physical gifts. Those are the athletes that are really fun to watch.
Some of the greatest athletes in the World are NFL Wide Receivers and Defensive backs. Yet, very little mention of any of those players in this thread.
the comment about MLB being the most difficult sport is spot on. players drafted into NBA and NFL can often play the same year they are drafted and sometimes are big contributors. not the case with MLB. there are very few who can get drafted and immediately make a difference. it usually takes 2-3 years in the minors.
@craig44 said:
the comment about MLB being the most difficult sport is spot on. players drafted into NBA and NFL can often play the same year they are drafted and sometimes are big contributors. not the case with MLB. there are very few who can get drafted and immediately make a difference. it usually takes 2-3 years in the minors.
Dave Winfield played zero minor league games prior to his debut with Padres, only strengthening his case.
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@craig44 said:
the comment about MLB being the most difficult sport is spot on. players drafted into NBA and NFL can often play the same year they are drafted and sometimes are big contributors. not the case with MLB. there are very few who can get drafted and immediately make a difference. it usually takes 2-3 years in the minors.
Dave Winfield played zero minor league games prior to his debut with Padres, only strengthening his case.
this does strengthen Winfields case. I was also thinking about other very young MLB athletes and Robin Younts name came to mind. He was a starting SS at 18 years old. He was also a very skilled golfer and used joining the PGA tour as leverage during a contract negotiation in the 1970's if I recall correctly.
There are lots of different ways of answering the question. If you say raw athlete it would be someone like a Bruce Jenner decathlon type. If you go more specialized you would pick someone like Michael Jordan/Jim Brown/Willie Mays/Chamberlain. It just depends. Carl Lewis has to be a serious contender. Not only the greatest sprinter for awhile; but the worlds best long jumper for a number of years too. Great singer too. LOL. Thorpe is the easy answer; but long before 1950.
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How about an athlete drafted in three professional sports - NFL, NBA, MLB - who would also go on to make the Hall of Fame in his chosen sport?
Would that be the winner?
Because that is Dave Winfield.
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Can’t forget 42...
From 1939-1941, Jackie Robinson made his mark at UCLA as a four-sport star for the Bruins: in football, a peerless running back; in basketball, the leading scorer; in track, a national champion; and in baseball, a highly-regarded shortstop.
Played past 1950 for the Dodgers
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Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete in the last 100 years. Before him Jim Thorpe
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Greatest athlete since 1950 was a horse.
Neon Deion
Bruce (or whatever his name is now) Jenner deserves mention.
Tom Freaking Brady
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Impossible to answer. At least for me.
Depends on how you define athlete. Gretzky and Ali were arguably the best at their individual sports, but does that make them the best "athlete"?
11 posts already, and nobody has mentioned Jordan? I do have to agree with the Bo Jackson / Jim Thorpe comment. I really like the Jim Thorpe comment. While we don't necessarily see it that way, IIRC, there was a greatest athlete of all time list done in 1950, and Jim Thorpe came in first with Babe Ruth right behind.
Don
>
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Also, do we need to put the name of an athlete in this thread who is arguably the greatest player in the history of two different sports?
Because that is Jim Brown (football/lacrosse).
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For me, the two in consideration for "Best Athlete" since Jim Thorpe; notice it is not Best "Hockey"/"Baseball"/"Football"/"Basketball" Player, are Dave Winfield and Bo Jackson.
Everyone else is fighting for Third Place.
Steve
Tom Glavine was drafted ahead of HOFers Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille by the NHL and was a better baseball player than Winfield.
But the best athlete is Bo.
Should throw Deion Sanders into the conversation
The title of the thread is greatest athlete since 1950. It does not give a criteria though. Some feel a great athlete is one who played multiple sports, but I think most would agree that when we think of greatness, we think of individual records in their sport that will never be broken, along with championships. Wayne Gretzky is one who comes to mind, because he has many records that may never be broken. However, many in the hockey world will correctly tell you that 9 times out of 10, five Bobby Orrs would beat 5 Wayne Gretzky’s in a hockey game. Orr was just that dominant in both ends of the ice, and way too strong and just as quick, if not quicker than Wayne. The only reasonable choice when we think of championships and records is Secretariat. Yes, others have won the triple crown since the 1970s, but Secretariats track records will never be approached or broken. No other athlete outside of Gretzky or Orr has a record that you can say will never be broken (not including steroids).
Bo Jackson starts the discussion
My apologies to the horse guys, but Secretariat is an insane answer. Not going to bother elaborating.
5 Orr's might beat 5 Gretzky's, as a "Hockey guy", I am not so sure. Orr was great individually with the puck, but Wayne was an incredible passer. Bobby might have trouble getting the puck. Gretzky was a pretty slightly built player as well, so other than hockey I don't rate him as high as others.
Secondly there's only one of each of any player so "5 of one Vs 5 of the other" is kind of meaningless, it doesn't work that way.
To me, a "best" athlete has to be good at multiple sports/games and an added bonus for speed/strength.
Bo does come to mind, and over Sanders because of his strength combined with speed, although both were much better football players. Jim Brown was an incredible athlete as well.
Other guys who were drafted but never played those sports, don't quite make it for me either, how do we know Glavine or Winfield would have made it to the pros? Winfield got drafted by the Vikings as a football player when he hadn't played since High School.
Don't forget Chuck Connors, who made it to the pros in both Basketball and Baseball. Good actor too!
Of course MJ was incredibly gifted, even if he played only one sport. I am not counting his baseball career.
I'll stick with Jenner, who competed against the best athletes in the world in an event that is supposed to determine the best overall athlete in multiple sports, both strength, speed and and endurance.
Of the 13 decathlons Jenner competed in between 1973 and 1976, the only loss was at the 1975 AAU National Championships, when a "no height" in the pole vault marred the score.
Jenner, however didn't compete in a sport like football or wrestling where an opponent is actually physically pitted against you. If that's got to be a factor, I'll take Mr. Bo Jackson, barely over MJ.
I will stick with Secretariat, and your Jenner is fine, but I have heard baseball/football guys names like Jackson, Winfield, and Sanders, yet no one has mentioned the one guy who had better minor league baseball stats and a better pro football career than all them. John Elway
John Elway had better minor league baseball stats and had a better pro football career than Bo. Elway was head and shoulders above anyone mentioned so far here. Elway hit .361 as a sophomore at Stanford, and hit .313 with 150 plus plate appearances in the minor leagues. He could of easily been the next Don Mattingly. He was that good.
He played 42 games at a very low minor league level and hit .318 with 4 homers. That's fine but it's not exactly amazing.
And Deion was a better pro than Elway. Sanders was arguably the best of all-time. Elway was nit the best QB of all-time. And Deion's baseball career was obviously a million times better.
The 5 Orrs vs 5 Gretzkys thing makes no sense. 9 Don Drysdale would destroy 9 Albert Pujols but Al was a way better player. So what?
Besides, Mario was better than Orr or Gretzky.
Since all a horse can do is run and is not a human, I really don't get it, but that's your prerogative.
How about Flipper or Gentle Ben? ;-) Lassie was a great runner too! LOL
Elway is a good one!> @Goldenage said:
Hitting well in College is nothing, what he did in A ball isn't much. I seriously doubt he was going to be as good as Mattingly, but you never know. 42 games is not much of a "career".
Elway was a terrific athlete, no argument there. Having a "better" pro career isn't the same as being the "best" athlete though.
At least he's a human, I hear Secretariat couldn't hit a curve ball.
My interpretation was based on the ‘all around’ approach. A player of a sport - even a star - may or may not be a great athlete. Cecil Fielder and John Daly had aspects of the sport they dominated that made them significant but I don’t know if either would garner the ‘athlete’ label. Michael Phelps is a great swimmer but can he make a 3? Can he throw a ball?
I am probably biased but I view a basketball player - hand-eye coordination, run for speed and endurance, jump, catch, throw, physical contact - as probably displaying the most consistent and constant range of athleticism in my eyes.
Those basic skills above are foundations for all sport. The well rounded athlete possesses all of them.
I see a ton of great names mentioned here. I wanted to toss out a name of a guy some may not remember; he won the Heisman by the widest margin since OJ Simpson (and 4th all time margin), had a long and distinguished NBA career, was also a pro caliber baseball and tennis player and helped Florida State to their first ever National Title in 1993. Obviously, Charlie Ward is probably not on the level of some of the previous names but he was still a pretty terrific and accomplished athlete.
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Lol. Only a horse can do is run. Caitlyn Jenner only ran, with a few throwing events included. Both athletes won mostly with their legs, and Caitlyns records aren’t as impressive as Big Reds. No, Secretariat couldn’t hit a curve, lol, nor could Caitlyn hit a screwball.
Ali.
Not to rain on anyone’s parade but I do think we all have on some rose colored glasses with Bo Jackson. I loved Bo Jackson but somewhere along the way he morphed from a ‘what could have been’ to a ‘was’ when in actuality he accomplished very little as a pro athlete. He scored 16 career TDs, played in 38 games and made one Pro Bowl in four seasons. He managed to play parts of 8 baseball seasons, and made an All-Star game but he hit .250 for his career and while he snapped bats, hit some home runs and made some great catches early in his career, he was basically a below average player most of his career. Bonus points for being linked up with Gretzky and Jordan for a cool cartoon, a great college career and running over Brian Bozworth and up the wall like Spider-Man after a catch.
So while I can give him the title of “could have been the best athlete” since 1950, there’s not enough there to give Bo Jackson the crown of “best athlete”, in my eyes.
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Love to see the horse try to pole vault!
Here, as with many of the threads, it depends on your point of view. We even have an animal being nominated!
Bo did not have a great career in baseball, he had one very good year, one HOF type year and a few that were about average. He also had a couple of very good years running the ball in the NFL.
He was able to make the all star team in each sport. Of course he was injured and his career(s) ended prematurely.
Bo Jackson was not a HOF baseball or Football player, he may have made it in the NFL's HOF had he not been hurt. He was the most gifted athletically imo. No rose colored glasses for me. His short career shouldn't disqualify him.
Jenner was a World Champion in an event that encompasses several different sports, so he's definitely a great all around athlete.
Deion made the NFL HOF and had one superb year in the MLB, he deserves consideration too.
MJ was of course another phenomenal athlete, as was JB.
This would be my top 5.
Lynn Swann gets my vote.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
When my daughter was younger she loved these movies. I watched them all, I think. Multiple times. There were many.
Charlie Ward is a great name to add. I remember watching him play in the NBA and announcers would often discuss his multi-sport proficiency.
No, too fragile. His career was too short.
I would vote for Michael Jordan. I know he didn’t make it as a baseball player, but what did as. a basketball player was remarkable.
How about a nod for Wilt the Stilt?
Hoops, track, field, volleyball and romance.
All performed at the highest level.
Jim Brown.
So many great athletes to choose from. I think the case could be made that there is no single answer to this question.
If the criteria is for an athlete to be a standout in more than one sport, I have yet to hear the name Kenny Lofton. An all star level Baseball player and a very good basketball player.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think Deion was the best two sport athlete. A hall of fame football player. Possibly the best ever at his position. A good baseball player for a number of years.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Great "cover" corner not much of a tackler.
very true. forget Revis island. i never saw a CB take out the opposing teams 1 receiver like Deion though. he was an absolute blanket
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
with most of the really talented, gifted, multi-sport athletes, it's hard to make a clear choice. look at a guy like Danny Ainge: good enough to play in MLB for a few seasons and then move to the NBA where he had a successful career. another guy is Dave Logan: drafted by the Cincinnatti Reds out of HS, he opted to go to College. he was then drafted by the NBA(9th round) and the NFL(3rd round). I'm sure there are numerous other examples that could be cited.
it's interesting how these greatest of the great athletes move as they age. they are multi-sport standouts in HS, tend to focus on 1-2 sports in College and then focus on only where they perceive their strength to be as a professional. I know that some will laugh when I say this, but I believe that Baseball is the most difficult of all the major sports to play at the highest level. my reason for saying that is because of the specialized skill set required and the time it takes to perfect those skills.
ironically, MLB has some of the most un-physically fit athletes around and many players are just average size, guys that might only be 5'8" and weigh about 170 can make it in the majors. I remember Denny McClain going, what, 30-5 that one year and they made him lose weight because he was kind of fat: suddenly he couldn't pitch!! they let him get fat again.
Football and Basketball, almost without exception, are comprised of the largest and most physically capable people on earth. on top of that, they seem to be able to do freakish things that ordinary people can't learn no matter how much they practice, and those things come naturally to them. even Hockey players are able to do things that really can't be taught. these guys have just been gifted by the Maker and can go from College to the pro's. then we have those Baseball players that need 3-5 years more practice, no matter how good they are.
that's my reasoning for why the guys that should be considered are the Bo Jacksons and the Jim Browns and the Dave Winfields and the John Havliceks of the World. these are guys who just seem to have been gifted enough to play any sport they tried to play at a high level. maybe they don't have the perceived greatness that fans assign by way of titles or to players who have come before/after them, but they were far, far superior to their contemporaries. that's why Jim Thorpe was so special: during his lifetime he could do almost anything in the sporting world better than anyone else alive.
that is a special thing.
Keets.
I remember Dave Logan in high school. I was a sophomore at a high school in the City of Denver in 1971-1972. Dave Logan was a senior at Wheatridge high school in the Denver suburbs.
He was a three sports star (Football, Basketball and Baseball) and the talk of the town his senior year. He dominated. He then played college football at Colorado and as you know played in the NFL (for the Browns I think).
He is an icon in Denver and in Colorado and to this day is still in the game (a sports broadcaster).
In 1978 was in my last year of college. Our hoops team had games in Denver in January or February. We stayed over the weekend and on an off day our coach (who had connections) got his players tickets to see the Denver Nuggets play the Boston Celtics at McNichols Arena.
Hondo's final season in the NBA was 1977-1978. I thus got to see him play one of his last games. He was 38 years old at the time and looked older. He was amazing for one primary reason. He had a motor in him that allowed him to play unlimited minutes at Full Speed. He never stopped moving on the court and he always moved at top speed, with a purpose in the game I watched. He literally ran players 10-15 years younger than him into the ground. The could not keep up. On top of his motor he also was highly skilled.
It is amazing to see people with physical skills, ability and talent that is freakishly off the charts good. Take those persons and draw from them those really special persons who also have the drive and fire and competitiveness to go above and beyond their physical gifts. Those are the athletes that are really fun to watch.
Harmon Killebrew was a three sport star in HS. He was a HS All-American in football.
Unfortunately he also suffered a pretty bad knee injury that he played on for almost 10 years.
Some of the greatest athletes in the World are NFL Wide Receivers and Defensive backs. Yet, very little mention of any of those players in this thread.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
the comment about MLB being the most difficult sport is spot on. players drafted into NBA and NFL can often play the same year they are drafted and sometimes are big contributors. not the case with MLB. there are very few who can get drafted and immediately make a difference. it usually takes 2-3 years in the minors.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Dave Winfield played zero minor league games prior to his debut with Padres, only strengthening his case.
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this does strengthen Winfields case. I was also thinking about other very young MLB athletes and Robin Younts name came to mind. He was a starting SS at 18 years old. He was also a very skilled golfer and used joining the PGA tour as leverage during a contract negotiation in the 1970's if I recall correctly.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
There are lots of different ways of answering the question. If you say raw athlete it would be someone like a Bruce Jenner decathlon type. If you go more specialized you would pick someone like Michael Jordan/Jim Brown/Willie Mays/Chamberlain. It just depends. Carl Lewis has to be a serious contender. Not only the greatest sprinter for awhile; but the worlds best long jumper for a number of years too. Great singer too. LOL. Thorpe is the easy answer; but long before 1950.