A question regarding CAC

This coin CAC'ed at MS66


https://www.davidlawrence.com/rare-coin/2126247
This coin did not CAC at MS65

This would be one of my 1st CAC lessons.

2nd CAC lesson, make judgments based on an in hand review, not photos.

When and if JA retires, why wouldn't he release the dates each coin stickered. I think that does create a market similar to OGH, Rattler, etc. and again everyone can value them as they please.

@BryceM said:
Before long, someone with an ax to grind shows up with an example of an anomaly.

Give me a random date & I'll be back in 5 minutes

@Gazes said:
Any dahlonega quarter eagle

For it to work, I have to know the coins that failed CAC & I don't own any 1/4 eagles.

@tradedollarnut said:
JA hates friction on unc coins....especially gem unc coins. That 2nd 1924 Double Eagle has very shiny high points

So do I...
Nose, fingers on torch hand, toes & right knee are what I look for.
No friction on the 2nd one.

Lots of friction on this CAC'er MS66 also

Actual flat spot on knee with big bag hit.
Bag hit on torch, flat nose...

One of the things I noticed when I became a young man were breasts.
One of the 1st things I noticed about breasts was that there should be 2 of them.

C-grade CAC coins are everywhere, I look at them almost every day.

@winesteven said:
5. Plug in the cert number, and you’ll see if the coin passed or not!

Assuming it was submitted

@ReadyFireAim said:

@winesteven said:
5. Plug in the cert number, and you’ll see if the coin passed or not!

Assuming it was submitted

95% chance it has if Dahlonega

@cameonut2011 said:
JAs pet peeves are high point friction as TDN wrote plus hits on the knee or rays.

If you look at the above coin, toning covers the bag marks & friction.
Her nose was obviously smashed & it is a golden brown now.

Her breasts are flat, like she was pushing them against glass, those are covered in toning also.
It's not shiny because the friction happened a long time ago.

@cameonut2011 said:

@Gazes said:

@ReadyFireAim said:

@BryceM said:
Before long, someone with an ax to grind shows up with an example of an anomaly.

Give me a random date & I'll be back in 5 minutes

Any dahlonega quarter eagle

That's not really a fair comparison. The number of Dahlonega samples is limited and the availability of images to review was killed by a certain someone given the capricious nature of coin grading (not CAC specific) the last few years. The quality of manufacture is also highly variable especially for strike making internet image comparison difficult particularly when comparing AU v MS.

He said give any random date---i didnt see it limited to any particular gold series.

@Smudge said:
I have noticed that on eBay coins with a sticker tend to have more watchers. While watchers is a poor indicator of whether or not a coin will be purchased, it is a good indicator of how much interest there is in a coin. Edit, at least the coins I look at.

I think most are looking to see if the coins sell for the high asking prices on eBay. Remember there is a guaranteed buyer (CAC) so the prices on eBay would logically be at least JA's bid + eBay fees + PayPal + a little extra for time in imaging and annoyances of e-commerce.

@Smudge said:

@cameonut2011 said:

@Smudge said:
I have noticed that on eBay coins with a sticker tend to have more watchers. While watchers is a poor indicator of whether or not a coin will be purchased, it is a good indicator of how much interest there is in a coin. Edit, at least the coins I look at.

I think most are looking to see if the coins sell for the high asking prices on eBay. Remember there is a guaranteed buyer (CAC) so the prices on eBay would logically be at least JA's bid + eBay fees + PayPal + a little extra for time in imaging and annoyances of e-commerce.

Makes sense.

Except for the fact that there are all sorts of coins for which CAC doesn’t have bids.

@MFeld said:

@Smudge said:

@cameonut2011 said:

@Smudge said:
I have noticed that on eBay coins with a sticker tend to have more watchers. While watchers is a poor indicator of whether or not a coin will be purchased, it is a good indicator of how much interest there is in a coin. Edit, at least the coins I look at.

I think most are looking to see if the coins sell for the high asking prices on eBay. Remember there is a guaranteed buyer (CAC) so the prices on eBay would logically be at least JA's bid + eBay fees + PayPal + a little extra for time in imaging and annoyances of e-commerce.

Makes sense.

Except for the fact that there are all sorts of coins for which CAC doesn’t have bids.

CAC will make an offer on anything with an email or phone call.

@winesteven said:

@ReadyFireAim said:

@Gazes said:
Any dahlonega quarter eagle

For it to work, I have to know the coins that failed CAC & I don't own any 1/4 eagles.

That’s a VERY simple task for ANY collector that understands the easiest basic research:

1. Go to the free PCGS CoinFacts, and search out any date of Dahlonega Quarter Eagles.
2. Click on “See other Photos”.
3. They show you very clearly cert numbers of many coins and their grades.
4. Go to the free CAC website, then to “Coin Look-up”.
5. Plug in the cert number, and you’ll see if the coin passed or not!

Steve

Thanks, that never crossed my mind.

To op:

I think it’s impossible to try predict future market or involvement of individuals. I favor diversified investment vs one entity, individual or stock.

Numismatic investment has its risks....Look how the 50-D nickel faded from glory or the 89 crash bankrupted many. On the flip side look how well bullion did this year. Will it slide back down or go up? Knowledge and experience is king in determining success in this arena.

Ones faith should be in themselves to ride the waves and do well with RCI based on skills buying and selling. Nobody is going to be the bank for you or absorb your risk. I believe many things after covid will reposition themselves and anybody’s guess. A mine will only be useful to the owner until all the money has been wrung out of it.

@cameonut2011 said:

@MFeld said:

@chesterb said:
Maybe a CAC sticker becomes the equivalent of an OGH. But I am sure there will be another service to take their place.

I wouldn’t count on another such service. People with the combination of John’s abilities, motives, willingness, well earned and deserved reputation, influence and likability are virtually, if not, none existent.

It doesn't necessarily need to be another service for the analogy to hold. Maybe 20 years from now we'll be debating between the old conservative green stickers versus the newer "loose as a goose" iteration in existence. Many people, including one of Legend's principals, have noted that there is some sticker inflation.

Thinking out loud... I wonder how the premium would work for an OGH with an old CAC sticker. Do you only get one price bonus or two (i.e. bump for the OGH and a bump for the old sticker above and beyond the recent iteration sticker)?

@fathom said:
I'm having trouble seeing a negative to having coins approved by an expert.
CAC is an independent market maker, creating additional demand.

Enjoy...I'm heading over to the dark side

@fathom said:
I'm having trouble seeing a negative to having coins approved by an expert.
The service doesn't have to be perfect to be good for the market. Looking at the glass half full:
Coins are worth more with a sticker.
The market has accepted the service as a whole.
Coins that are exceptional for the grade in each series are viewable examples as a higher standard for novice collectors to appreciate and learn from, another benefit for the marketplace.
CAC is an independent market maker, creating additional demand.

Welcome to the Forum! Hope to hear a lot more from you over time, as you recognize and clearly verbalize common sense ideas and facts.

@pursuitofliberty said:
This thread went off track a little ways, although I really appreciate (most of) the discussion.

The different responses caused me to think about my original question, which now seems flawed, and sparked some PM and even email exchanges which helped me connect and separate some of my thoughts and questions.

I feel like I understand this service, and the place it has cemented in the market a little better, and all the information I have so far should help me with how I will proceed, and what questions I still need and want to ask (which I will probably do via PM and email after the eye-rolls this thread seemed to invoke).

Thank you all for helping make this place worthwhile!

Todd, that’s why I wrote at the very beginning of this thread “OK, here we go again”, recognizing the sensitivity of this topic. But while quite lengthy, I believe this thread has been healthy. I’m surprised in a positive way that it’s been allowed to continue this long, as many of these threads go “poof”. Apparently, we’ve behaved ourselves well enough for this to continue.

Your intelligence, politeness, and open-mindedness have shown through since the beginning, regardless of your current thoughts and positions. Thank you!

On a final note, since you seem to be new to CAC, it can be a very useful learning tool. If you make a submission and request for feedback, John will send you a note with feedback. In that sense, submitting sooner than later can be beneficial. I recommend that all collectors open a submission account.

@topstuf said:

@chesterb said:
Maybe a CAC sticker becomes the equivalent of an OGH. But I am sure there will be another service to take their place.

Absolutely! Hudson and Nash quit. But American Motors .....stepped....right... in.

Stepped in what?