PCGS Rarities holder for Rarities - Morelan, Hansen, etc.

Zoins · July 3, 2020 7:47AM

What do you think of using the Rarities holder for rarities?

Bruce is selling his early dollars soon and DL regularly sells his dupes.

Would you prefer to see and buy these coins in Rarities holders?

Here's the Newman-Eliasberg 1913 Liberty Nickel in one:

Sonorandesertrat · July 3, 2020 7:53AM

Those holders are marketing tools. Will they be relevant in 20 or 30 years? Someone who is seriously looking for a 1913 Liberty nickel does not need the coin to be in a holder like that.

philographer · July 3, 2020 8:19AM

I like old pedigrees. I like knowing where a coin was 100 years ago. I don’t have much of an interest in where a coin was 10 years ago.

P.S. this is not a knock, and it has nothing to do with respect for those who are collecting. It’s more about history vs. current events.

messydesk · July 3, 2020 8:21AM

@Zoins said:
What do you think of using the Rarities holder for rarities?

Not that I have anything behind that velvet rope, but the holder does nothing for me.

Jimnight · July 3, 2020 8:24AM

I think it's ok ... but ...
Business is business ... it's all about making money.

Zoins · July 3, 2020 8:27AM

@philographer said:
I like old pedigrees. I like knowing where a coin was 100 years ago. I don’t have much of an interest in where a coin was 10 years ago.

I agree old history is certainly interesting. It's great to know the Eliasberg coin was also owned by Abe Kosoff and was Newman's personal collection specimen.

However, I also like more recent history since those owners are here and can talk about those coins. This one was also owned by Dwight @Dwight_M and Bruce @tradedollarnut.

I always thought the larger insert could be used to hold more names on the provenance / pedigree. Imagine if this said:

Newman-Kosoff-Eliasberg-Parino-Manley-Morelan-Forsythe

MedalCollector · July 3, 2020 8:32AM

I would much rather have a holder that enhances the coin, not detracts from it. A coin of that size is lost in a holder that large.

oih82w8 · July 3, 2020 8:36AM

I am not a fan of the oversized holder when the standard size will work.

DCW · July 3, 2020 8:39AM

@GoldenEgg said:
I would much rather have a holder that enhances the coin, not detracts from it. A coin of that size is lost in a holder that large.

This is a well stated, good point.

I prefer a piece to be in a standard holder, with a standard label, and the provenance beneath the grade on that label.

Just looks more professional in my opinion.

cardinal · July 3, 2020 8:40AM

@Sonorandesertrat said:
Those holders are marketing tools. Will they be relevant in 20 or 30 years? Someone who is seriously looking for a 1913 Liberty nickel does not need the coin to be in a holder like that.

Aside from the label, I have seen that same holder used for everyday oversize holders. (I have one of those in the collection, and it's not worth more $1k.)

BryceM · July 3, 2020 8:43AM

These oversized holders look silly to me. What's more important, the frame or what's inside? There's a reason they didn't do this:

MrEureka · July 3, 2020 9:01AM

I won’t mix PCGS and NGC holders in the same set because the collection doesn’t present as well that way. I don’t even like to mix rattlers and the newer slabs, for the same reason. So I certainly don’t want any giant slabs. Besides, if I didn’t have a strong preference for smaller collectibles, I’d probably be collecting rare books and dinosaur skeletons, not coins.

Zoins · July 3, 2020 9:02AM

@MrEureka said:
I won’t mix PCGS and NGC holders in the same set because the collection doesn’t present as well that way. I don’t even like to mix rattlers and the newer slabs, for the same reason. So I certainly don’t want any giant slabs.

Agreed on the mixing and matching, however, Bruce's early dollar set doesn't have that many coins so I was thinking they could all be Rarities holders.

MrEureka · July 3, 2020 9:05AM

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:
I won’t mix PCGS and NGC holders in the same set because the collection doesn’t present as well that way. I don’t even like to mix rattlers and the newer slabs, for the same reason. So I certainly don’t want any giant slabs.

Agreed on the mixing and matching, however, Bruce's early dollar set doesn't have that many coins so I was thinking they could all be Rarities holders.

Yes, but the potential buyers already have collections of their own, or will one day.

MidLifeCrisis · July 3, 2020 9:08AM

I prefer coins in the holders in which they were originally slabbed, whenever I can get them. Old holders are more important to me than special or fancy holders. For that and other reasons already stated, no thanks.

Zoins · July 3, 2020 9:37AM

Opinions seem to be fairly consistent on this. I wonder how many coins have been slabbed using this holder?

Are there sample slabs for these?

Rarity · July 3, 2020 9:46AM

Very nice holder with unique tag but I like the older style inner ring better. I am afraid that the 3 prongs will break overtime.

cameonut2011 · July 3, 2020 9:47AM

With the exception of rare, historically significant collections I think pedigree labels are all marketing and ego. I’d prefer a regular holder.

Catbert · July 3, 2020 9:49AM

Let’s be honest. Adding recent provenance is a vanity project.

topstuf · July 3, 2020 9:51AM

@BryceM said:
These oversized holders look silly to me. What's more important, the frame or what's inside? There's a reason they didn't do this:

Lisa's been FRAMED !!!

MrEureka · July 3, 2020 9:52AM

@Catbert said:
Let’s be honest. Adding recent provenance is a vanity project.

Yes, but with some exceptions. For example, Pogue.

Zoins · July 3, 2020 9:54AM

@MrEureka said:

@Catbert said:
Let’s be honest. Adding recent provenance is a vanity project.

Yes, but with some exceptions. For example, Pogue.

That's an interesting thought. I have a couple of Pogue coins. I wonder if PCGS would reslab them into Rarity holders with a Pogue insert.

coinbuf · July 3, 2020 10:09AM

Utter foolishness, I'll never understand the fascination some people have with a name that they associate fame to. I suppose its because kids were brought up by the TV instead of parents so they idolize and prioritize all the wrong things. I couldn't care less and would bid less for these coins (as I do/will for Hanson coins) because I have to factor in getting the coin reholdered to get rid of that name. No disrespect to Bruce but his name means squat to me and while I cannot afford one anyway the last coin I would want is one with his or any name on the label. And if that wasn't enough that holder is ugly to me.

CoinJunkie · July 3, 2020 10:22AM

I like it, more real estate for stickers...

TomB · July 3, 2020 10:28AM

Epic fail.

ricko · July 3, 2020 11:22AM

It would not add any attraction for me..... I really do not care about the pedigree/provenance....For me, it is the coin and the attributes it brings....Leave the decorations out....The only place I really like decorations is on my Christmas Tree.... Cheers, RickO

Zoins · July 3, 2020 11:52AM

Here's the prior slab. Do people like this one better?

I think the gold foil insert is very classy and I'm sorry it's gone now.

Of note, there's no provenance on this one.

Zoins · July 3, 2020 11:55AM

Of course, a regular size slab is even a bit big for a nickel.

I've always wondered if it would be nice to have a holder for half dollars / quarters and smaller.

This Max Mehl paster has a more nickel-sized holder.

cardinal · July 3, 2020 12:29PM

Yes, there are collectors that want their names up in lights, and there are others that do not care.

I think that if the provenance is historically prominent, then it should be referenced. On that basis, I had the label of this submission to show:

Augustin Dupre made it, and Benjamin Franklin owed it!

topstuf · July 3, 2020 12:33PM

Different size slabs make a problem for those who store in boxes.

keyman64 · July 3, 2020 1:50PM

I think the best way to reference provenance would be for the details to come up when you search the cert. That way, if there is history of a dozen or so, no one gets left out and the history is more complete...rather than just picking and choosing a couple. Incomplete data is rarely ideal. I like the, smaller, standard sized holders myself.

cameonut2011 · July 3, 2020 2:35PM

@Zoins said:
Here's the prior slab. Do people like this one better?

I think the gold foil insert is very classy and I'm sorry it's gone now.

Of note, there's no provenance on this one.

We don’t really need the “finest known line,” but yes it is much better.

amwldcoin · July 3, 2020 2:38PM

Well! That's 1 coin that finest known is not likely to change!

@cameonut2011 said:

@Zoins said:
Here's the prior slab. Do people like this one better?

I think the gold foil insert is very classy and I'm sorry it's gone now.

Of note, there's no provenance on this one.

We don’t really need the “finest known line,” but yes it is much better.

koynekwest · July 3, 2020 2:45PM

If anything I think the slabs should be smaller, more like the old ANACS slabs. Or even round.

cameonut2011 · July 3, 2020 2:46PM

@amwldcoin said:
Well! That's 1 coin that finest known is not likely to change!

And anyone mulling over purchasing it already knows that too. It is pretentious IMHO.

cameonut2011 · July 3, 2020 2:50PM

@Zoins said:

The serial number appears to have changed from the gold foil label. Apparently Forsyth submitted it as a regrade. I guess he was hoping for a plus. Here’s to hoping it stickers again (that’s what really matters right?)...

keets · July 3, 2020 3:25PM

so this thread seems to have developed into one asking two questions, over-sized holders and provenance.

I think the holder used should fit the coin that's inside of it. putting a Nickel in a holder that's better suited for a 60mm medal just looks silly. as for Provenance, even though it isn't important to me I think they have been deemed Historically important and should be maintained on an insert with the coin. if a TPG sees it proper to add a Provenance to a coin insert it should be kept and then the current owner's name added, as displayed by Cardinal.

stockdude_ · July 3, 2020 3:45PM

Large holder doesnt work for me. I like the gold label slab

stockdude_ · July 3, 2020 3:47PM

"Apparently Forsyth submitted it as a regrade. " Maybe so but on a 1913 Liberty Nickel whether its labeled 64,65,66 is not going to change the value one iota

MrEureka · July 3, 2020 3:59PM

@amwldcoin said:
Well! That's 1 coin that finest known is not likely to change!

@cameonut2011 said:

@Zoins said:
Here's the prior slab. Do people like this one better?

I think the gold foil insert is very classy and I'm sorry it's gone now.

Of note, there's no provenance on this one.

We don’t really need the “finest known line,” but yes it is much better.

Until they try to crack it out of the monster slab and...,uh oh.

airplanenut · July 3, 2020 5:00PM

I've never liked the large holders because they're so bulky. I understand when they're needed to house a large item, and while I still wish they were smaller, I can live with their size. But when a coin is already small and easily fits in a regular holder, such a large holder just looks silly and greatly takes away from the coin.

Lakesammman · July 3, 2020 5:04PM

Not a fan of that holder - the coin looks lost, almost like an afterthought.......

dbldie55 · July 3, 2020 5:13PM

I liked the presentation of the Forsythe collection at the ANA last year. As long as the owner likes the holders. Heck, I drove 20 hours to see them.

Zoins · July 3, 2020 8:15PM

@koynekwest said:
If anything I think the slabs should be smaller, more like the old ANACS slabs. Or even round.

The current slabs can hold $50 gold slugs with some additional padding. Most people don't have coins this large sos it adds to extra size. Of course, it's nice to have these coins in the same size slab but makes the regular size slab larger.

The smallest hard holders are Air-Tites which can be nice.

France has a TPG, GENI (Gradations et Expertises Numismatiques Internationales), that makes octagon holders. These are designed to be "museum-quality" so all the info, including grade is on the edge. No grade, provenance, or other info on the face.

Zoins · July 3, 2020 8:19PM

@cardinal said:
Augustin Dupre made it, and Benjamin Franklin owed it!

Great provenance on that one

MFeld · July 3, 2020 9:08PM

@stockdude_ said:
"Apparently Forsyth submitted it as a regrade. " Maybe so but on a 1913 Liberty Nickel whether its labeled 64,65,66 is not going to change the value one iota

That’s incorrect. As rare as the coin is, grade still matters when it comes to “value”.

koynekwest · July 3, 2020 11:02PM

I like that octagonal slab. A round slab could be labelled like that.

SDSportsFan · July 4, 2020 12:57AM

@cameonut2011 said:

@Zoins said:

The serial number appears to have changed from the gold foil label. Apparently Forsyth submitted it as a regrade. I guess he was hoping for a plus. Here’s to hoping it stickers again (that’s what really matters right?)...

Of note, the cert # on the original holder is only seven digits; and PCGS' current database does not support that older format. The owner undoubtedly wanted the cert # updated to the current eight-digit format.

Steve

keets · July 4, 2020 4:42AM

A round slab could be labelled like that.

that's the second time in the thread that you've advocated for a round slab. that will never happen, ever. a round slab would be awkward and a storage nightmare. I know this because for a brief period I was enamored with KoinTains and other styles of round storage.

Zoins · July 4, 2020 4:59AM

@SDSportsFan said:

@cameonut2011 said:

@Zoins said:

The serial number appears to have changed from the gold foil label. Apparently Forsyth submitted it as a regrade. I guess he was hoping for a plus. Here’s to hoping it stickers again (that’s what really matters right?)...

Of note, the cert # on the original holder is only seven digits; and PCGS' current database does not support that older format. The owner undoubtedly wanted the cert # updated to the current eight-digit format.

Steve

I can't imagine the PCGS database doesn't support 7 digits. I've searched for these fine and the PCGS cert verification website says 7 digit certification numbers work.

PCGS Cert Verification App: Before you buy any PCGS graded coin, quickly verify its authenticity and quality by scanning or entering the coin's 7 or 8 digit certification number.

https://www.pcgs.com/cert

Can you provide some info on this?

Zoins · July 4, 2020 5:00AM

@keets said:
A round slab could be labelled like that.

that's the second time in the thread that you've advocated for a round slab. that will never happen, ever. a round slab would be awkward and a storage nightmare. I know this because for a brief period I was enamored with KoinTains and other styles of round storage.

I think KoinTains can be hard to store because they are not rigid.

I've tended to like Air-Tites and I haven't had any problems with storage. I've been able to store Air-Tite round capsules fine with both Air-Tite boxes and Guardhouse boxes.

The Air-Tite boxes use cards so it can hold different sizes and even bars. The cards also come in different colors for easy identification.

https://www.littletoncoin.com/shop/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&productId=58845

The Guardhouse boxes don't require anything other than the capsules but then require the capsules to be the same size. I use these for 39mm and 38mm pieces and the boxes feel nice and sturdy, though it's a bit tight to remove from a full box. For smaller coins, gaskets can be used inside the Air-Tite if needed.

https://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/storage-boxes-capsules/

PCGS Rarities holder for Rarities - Morelan, Hansen, etc.

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