1955 double die penny ?

wroclaw1220 · April 18, 2020 5:16AM

Greetings everybody
I have this 1955 penny
is it worth to grade it ?
Thank you
Jerry

TennesseeDave · April 18, 2020 5:41AM

That is exactly the type of coin that needs to be authenticated and graded due to the amount of fakes that are out there. There should be someone here that may be able to help you authenticate it from your pictures. Good luck.
Welcome to the forum!

291fifth · April 18, 2020 5:44AM

It looks like a fake to me.

ricko · April 18, 2020 5:48AM

@wroclaw1220 ....Welcome aboard.... Yes, you should have it graded and slabbed....While not a high grade specimen, it will command a good premium once authenticated. Cheers, RickO

jdimmick · April 18, 2020 5:54AM

I am pretty sure that is not genuine, but maybe somebody else can chime in

JRocco · April 18, 2020 5:58AM

Nope
Compare

PerryHall · April 18, 2020 6:03AM

The real ones have two vertical die polish lines that cross just to the left side of the vertical upright of the T in CENT. You'll need a good loupe or magnifier and good lighting to see it.

Jimnight · April 18, 2020 6:14AM

I'm leaning toward fake. Your coin is the one on the left. What do you think ?

Jimnight · April 18, 2020 6:16AM

What @PerryHall said

Kliao · April 18, 2020 6:18AM

Looks fake to me
Something about Lincoln’s face looks off

wroclaw1220 · April 18, 2020 6:27AM

From your statements it is a fake. I will toss it to garbage.
Thank you guys for answering my question
Jerry

JRocco · April 18, 2020 6:32AM

Excellent pic and demonstration Jimnight

Knowledge before writing a check is paramount.

The King of all Doubled Dies, the 1955 DDO-001 is a CCW rotated class one doubled die.
That means it is rotated counter clockwise. The second or heavier strike shows to the left or counter clockwise.

Look at the word LIBERTY in my genuine example vs the coin in the OP.

You don't need to look at anything else.

JRocco · April 18, 2020 6:51AM

Hope my pics show it but to further the point of knowing what to look for:
2 opposite rotations.
The 1955 DDO-001, The King, shows strong CCW or counter clockwise class one rotation.
The 1972 DDO-001 shows strong CW or clockwise class one rotation.

Rarestuff · April 18, 2020 7:00AM

This is the well known “Smirking Lincoln” fake. There is also a fake off-center version of the 1955 DDO that uses the same master hub or computer CAD bust of Lincoln, as well as a 1922 and 1909S VDB that uses the same bust. With the strange expression on Lincoln’s face, I have coined the phrase “Smirking Lincoln” to describe the unusual bust of Lincoln seen on many of these fakes. As you can see he has a discernible grin when compared to the somber and serious appearance of Lincoln on Brenner’s genuine design. Once you notice the difference it is an easy to identify die characteristic of these fakes. I will add some images of the other fakes later when I am on my laptop.

JRocco · April 18, 2020 7:02AM

I like "Smirking Lincoln" Rarestuff
I used to always call this fake the Lincoln with goiter fake

wroclaw1220 · April 18, 2020 11:32AM

I purchased for cash 1 oz gold bar ,The Perth Mint from guy on the Craigslist List , he added this penny as a gift.
Now I am worrying if the bar is also fake

PerryHall · April 18, 2020 11:39AM

@wroclaw1220 said:
I purchased for cash 1 oz gold bar ,The Perth Mint from guy on the Craigslist List , he added this penny as a gift.
Now I am worrying if the bar is also fake

There are many fake gold bars coming out of china these days. Can you post good pics of your gold bar?

Treashunt · April 18, 2020 11:41AM

@wroclaw1220 said:
I purchased for cash 1 oz gold bar ,The Perth Mint from guy on the Craigslist List , he added this penny as a gift.
Now I am worrying if the bar is also fake

If it was a gift, he knew it was a fake.

I'd still keep it, nice example of a fake DoubleD die.

wroclaw1220 · April 18, 2020 12:26PM

Here it is

johnny9434 · April 18, 2020 12:26PM

@wroclaw1220 said:
From your statements it is a fake. I will toss it to garbage.
Thank you guys for answering my question
Jerry

You could keep it for reference. It's a good educational tool. Just saying

skier07 · April 18, 2020 12:30PM

@wroclaw1220 said:
I purchased for cash 1 oz gold bar ,The Perth Mint from guy on the Craigslist List , he added this penny as a gift.
Now I am worrying if the bar is also fake

Don’t buy raw coins, gold bars, etc. on Craigslist unless you are very experienced and even then it’s risky.

oreville · April 18, 2020 12:43PM

Excellent teaching thread!

oreville · April 18, 2020 12:44PM

Excellent teaching thread!

oreville · April 18, 2020 12:45PM

Use Craiglist to locate old NGC or PCGS slabs.

ReadyFireAim · April 18, 2020 12:46PM

Don't know about the bar.
Here is something I found.
https://www.fakebullion.com/index.php/component/k2/item/48-perth-mint-1-ounce-gold-bar-in-black-assay-card-gen-3

TomB · April 18, 2020 1:02PM

I wouldn't be confident in the bar, either. Good luck.

291fifth · April 18, 2020 1:27PM

Craigslist, cash, gold bar ... talk about asking for trouble.

Kliao · April 18, 2020 1:40PM

That bar in my opinion is also fake unfortunately. The bar seems to be unusually extremely thick which is what counterfeiters do to make the bar weigh correctly.

This is what I was able to see based off a APMEX photo. The ears on the kangaroo are also not long enough on your bar. These bars are struck like coins so they shouldn’t have this big of differences.
Yours on right APMEX on left.

Jimnight · April 18, 2020 1:46PM

@johnny9434 said:

@wroclaw1220 said:
From your statements it is a fake. I will toss it to garbage.
Thank you guys for answering my question
Jerry

You could keep it for reference. It's a good educational tool. Just saying

Best idea I've heard yet.

Jimnight · April 18, 2020 1:48PM

@Kliao said:
That bar in my opinion is also fake unfortunately. The bar seems to be unusually extremely thick which is what counterfeiters do to make the bar weigh correctly.

This is what I was able to see based off a APMEX photo. The ears on the kangaroo are also not long enough on your bar.
Yours on right APMEX on left.

I believe you are right.

wroclaw1220 · April 18, 2020 2:24PM

I have seller personal info , even his picture but no proof of paying cash .
He refuses to reverse the deal ,
so i lost my hard earn money

ReadyFireAim · April 18, 2020 2:27PM

Before panicking, I'd cut it out of the package and measure it with calipers or take it to a place where they have a PMV
device.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0De1GtrW2I

Kliao · April 18, 2020 2:35PM

@ReadyFireAim said:
Before panicking, I'd cut it out of the package and measure it with calipers or take it to a place where they have a PMV
device.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0De1GtrW2I

During times like this I doubt that there are shops that have a PMV device that are still open.

If you have a scale you can measure the density or specific gravity at home. There are many videos on YouTube that show you how to do this.

ReadyFireAim · April 18, 2020 2:46PM

@Kliao said:
During times like this I doubt that there are shops that have a PMV device that are still open.
If you have a scale you can measure the density or specific gravity at home. There are many videos on YouTube that show >you how to do this.

Many do not want to cut the packaging and this is the only way that I know of not to do that.
Personally...I'd cut, weigh & measure.

wroclaw1220 · April 18, 2020 3:37PM

If the PMV test proves the bar is fake ,
then what ?

Barberian · April 18, 2020 4:16PM

It's a fake. Call the cops! Craigslist is full of crooks like this guy.

291fifth · April 18, 2020 4:17PM

@wroclaw1220 said:
If the PMV test proves the bar is fake ,
then what ?

You are probably out of luck since not only do you apparently have no receipt, but the package would have been opened and the seller could claim the contents had been switched. You just learned a very expensive lesson.

Jimnight · April 18, 2020 4:20PM

Good luck!

Kliao · April 18, 2020 4:29PM

@291fifth said:

@wroclaw1220 said:
If the PMV test proves the bar is fake ,
then what ?

You are probably out of luck since not only do you apparently have no receipt, but the package would have been opened and the seller could claim the contents had been switched. You just learned a very expensive lesson.

It is possible to test the bar with a PMV or use an X-ray without breaking the bar out of the package

Smudge · April 18, 2020 4:49PM

@wroclaw1220 said:
If the PMV test proves the bar is fake ,
then what ?

From now on only buy from reputable dealers.

ReadyFireAim · April 18, 2020 5:15PM

@wroclaw1220 said:
If the PMV test proves the bar is fake ,
then what ?

If I'm really angry with something, I put it on the fence post in the back yard.
Which reminds me of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHWAsjKsYL4

jdimmick · April 18, 2020 5:28PM

Bar is fake, no doubt in my mind. Unfortunate hard lesson. Only buy from reputable people/dealers, etc. Get a machine if your going to buy loose from folks on fly. The Sigma is good, not 100% foolproof, but will clear out fake stuff 99% of the time.

Years ago, I broke down and got one, had a guy come in with 3 1 oz perth mint gold bars, I knew he was coming, so I did so fast research on the internet to see what to look for in trying to identify a fake. These looked really good to me, I was just about to pay him when he made the statement I have a lot more of these. I then said let me check one closer. I drilled it and sure enough it was no good. Thankfully I didn't loose like 5k+

Been very cautious since then.

PurpleEcho · April 18, 2020 5:29PM

Dang, that sucks! I hope you can find a way to get your money back...

segoja · April 18, 2020 6:23PM

How much did you pay for bar relative to spot?

That bar looks fake to me.

Don't cut it out. Any test with equipment can be done thru the plastic.

Why in the world would you buy gold from a craigslist ad when you seem to be very unsure of your abilities to tell real form fake???

Craiglist Gold and Coins = Fake Gold and Coins

Sorry for your loss

BuffaloIronTail · April 18, 2020 6:37PM

@wroclaw1220 said:
I purchased for cash 1 oz gold bar ,The Perth Mint from guy on the Craigslist List , he added this penny as a gift.
Now I am worrying if the bar is also fake

Oh man, I hope not.

Pete

JBK · April 19, 2020 2:06AM

I love the text on the card: "The Perth Mint tamper-evident case".

Not to pile on the OP, I am not sure of the reason to buy commonly counterfeited coins or bullion on Craig's List. The only advantage might be to save a few dollars, but discount gold is just another red flag.

The seller committed a crime. Maybe law enforcement could be convinced to do a sting operation.

You could also sue him in small claims court. Not sure of the chances for success.

wroclaw1220 · April 19, 2020 3:30AM

All contacts and negotiations was done by messaging so I have it on my cell phone but I pay with cash and have no proof , My wife was with me .
What is really sad I kept that cash for rainy day and I just lost my job

Jimnight · April 19, 2020 3:59AM

@wroclaw1220 said:
All contacts and negotiations was done by messaging so I have it on my cell phone but I pay with cash and have no proof , My wife was with me .
What is really sad I kept that cash for rainy day and I just lost my job

I'd bring the messaging to law enforcement and let them deal with it for you.

wroclaw1220 · April 19, 2020 4:33AM

I wish to place this guy picture here so everyone can see him , but most likely I will get in trouble for that

wroclaw1220 · April 19, 2020 6:15AM

He continue to sell items on CL , here is one of them
https://longisland.craigslist.org/clt/d/smithtown-1929-st-gaudens-pcgs-ms64/7104074175.html

PerryHall · April 19, 2020 6:21AM

The asking price is a small fraction of what it would be worth if it were real. That tells you all you need to know.

1955 double die penny ?

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