Consignment to a dealer
jdillane
Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭
I made a sizable consignment to a well known dealer of seemingly solid repute.
I’ve recently learned that the dealer used proceeds of the consignment for home improvements rather than to pay me. He now wants me to wait until he sells his home to pay me my share claiming he didn’t anticipate the pandemic.
I’ve informed him that I believe his conduct is improper irrespective of the pandemic.
Am I being too harsh?
2
Comments
Nope. I view that as unethical. I'd suggest to him that he borrow some money against his home to pay consignors ASAP. Otherwise he's making his problem your problem.
Was there any sort of agreement regarding the time frame for payment of proceeds and penalties for late payment? If not, there probably should have been.
You may want to hire a lawyer to send him a threatening letter. I can't believe what he did isn't fraud.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Definitely hire a lawyer... and sue for your funds and legal fees....or put a lien on his house. Cheers, RickO
I'm not a lawyer, but to me a consignment implies payment upon sale of said consigned merchandise.
You should in no way have to wait for him to sell his home to be paid, that is astoundingly ridiculous. He can get a home improvement loan like the rest of us, or, you know, not spend more money than he apparently has..
Collector, occasional seller
Pandemic my ass. Based on the scenario you have provided, it appears to me the dealer did not have solid repute at the time the consignment was accepted.
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It is very difficult these days to stun me, but you just did. I'm with the consensus.
He had paid promptly in the past. I had instructed him to alert me within 24 hours of any sale. But when he told me earlier this week he thought a check was at the PO Box from an installment sale, I nudged him today about getting his mail. He said he’d try to make it to post office. This underwhelmed me. And then the other shoe dropped.
I’ll give him some time to make this right. I wanted the funds to help my daughter put a down payment on a house. She’s now telling me she might not need my help.
If he doesn’t make it right, I’ll explore both civil and criminal recourse. The amount involved is felony level so I hope he does right.
This is a criminal act:
"Theft by conversion occurs when a person lawfully obtains possession to the personal property or funds of another, and then converts the property into funds for their own use and without the person's permission."
You are being too patient and understanding. I had a somewhat similar situation with a dealer about a year ago who is now in jail, and has never paid me a dime. You need to apply pressure to the dealer NOW. If it is happening to you, it may be happening to others. Hope you get paid before the house of cards falls. I would out the dealer in hopes nobody here gets hurt. It is beyond ethics, it is criminal, and inexcusable.
-Paul
If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
That may get his attention!
Yes, another consignment nightmare.
I too have had some poor experiences consigning to "well known" dealer. Somethings everyone who is thinking about consigning needs to consider are:
1) When you hand over your coins to a dealer, essentially they now "own" them. Perhaps not in a strictly legal sense, but in all other ways, including controlling the sale price and duration of sales efforts and when they will pay you.
2) Dealers love consignments (Some only operate on consignment - wonder why?).
3) It's your money tied up, not theirs. You take all the risks. All they do is offer a sales channel, nothing more (usually).
4) In my experience, especially with non-rock star coins, dealers don't really put out much effort (other than spending 10 seconds to keep relisting a coin that wont well on eBay). It takes about 2 min to take a few nice photos and another 2-3 minutes to write up a nice description and voila - the sum total of the dealers work is done. All they do is wait for the auction to run its course. Real tough job...
5) Watch out for the "I'll get the coins graded & you can pay me for the nice grades that "we" get" tactic...
Please let us know who so we can avoid! PM as necessary.
Upsetting is putting it mildly.
There are times to be nice and understanding. This is not one of those times IMHO
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That is absurd I would be pretty irate which doesn't happen often
He's fully in the wrong and I can't believe you are being so nice.
I'd love to know (a PM would be fine) who this is as I may be looking to consign some stuff in the near future (my son is entering college soon) and I sure wouldn't want to go through something like this. What type of coins?
Question:
When you consigned, was there a written agreement with terms? Who gave the agreement to the other, if so? Did you have one for him or did he have one for you?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Please PM me this dealer's name. Thanks.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this dealer licensed with the state? Are they not affiliated with a Numismatic network of some kind? They have a fiduciary responsibility as a licensed dealer. Are they a direct buyer from the US Mint?
You need to act now, otherwise as they continue to steal from others you will be essentially a knowledgeable participant of their criminal action and potentially liable for not reporting it.
Let them know you require payment in full, even if at wholesale value of bullion they can prove they personally own. Cash is king though in this situation.
That is bad advice, for a number of reasons. There are much better ways to handle it, some of which have already been suggested.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This may not be the best suggestion, but I would tell you to go after his ass ASAP!
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I’ll not leave the group hanging too long. I’m giving dealer a bit of time to get his story straight.
He’s claiming now that he didn’t use the funds to make home improvements, but I don’t care what he did with the money, if he sold a consigned coin he should pay me.
The Dealer when he sold the Item did not say to the buyer here is the coin pay me later, he wanted paid right away and you should not have to wait more than 7 to 10 days to receive your payment that is if any checks had to clear, I would certainly go after him no matter what he has for an excuse! It's your money it was your property that you entrusted to him, it was Sold money traded hands now get your hands on your cash do not let it linger!!!
Strange world we live in these days...
Dave
Out of curiosity, were there any terms to the consignment? Like payment within xx days?
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He has one HELL OF A LOT OF NERVE.
He may have a hard time selling a home in this environment. GO AFTER HIM! or wait 6 months for your money.
That could be construed as extortion. Don't do it.
And I wouldn’t PM his or her name to anyone either. Thats a no win situation as well.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Now that his story has changed ( no longer used the money on home improvement as he originally stated) I would be more inclined to contact a lawyer. If you feel comfortable I would also like a name.
Good luck!!!!
Depending on amount involved, sue him without delay. Just get it started. I assume you have records proving everything you've posted.
I might agree EXCEPT for the fact that this may happen to someone else and then we have a bad situation. That's already been played out, even on this forum with 2 well known "good guy" dealers in the past. Did not go well for many and it could have been nipped in the bud early if the early ones hit by it had warned folks.
No need to exaggerate what is happening, just PM truth about it to those interested so they can be safe.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
File a lien against his home, immediately.
bob
In the old days, yes. Currently, no. That would get the OP a timeout at the best, but possibly a ban from here, when moderation returns. That's why I asked the OP for a PM of the name.
I have a collection of half-cents I am looking to sell. I have some old gold I am tempted to sell. I have some other coins. I may be looking to consign to a dealer instead of doing it myself. I don't want to go through this type of mess. I have a few well known dealers in mind for some of the items, and I sure as shooting am hoping that none of them are the one from the OP.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
It’s a zero win situation for the OP and I stand by my comment. I’d act immediately via lawyer and that’s all. Once you Pm somebody you may as well just post it for the world to see. It won’t be held in confidence whether by accident or loose lips. This forum is the worlds worst sewing circle
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Consult your attorney.
PM sent. I don't want to give the culprit any ideas....
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I hear you on that, but I'll also stand by my comment that it could prevent some serious issues in the future...and could have possibly saved a forum life years ago.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Moderation hasn't left.
I hate to say it, but this guy sounds like a bankruptcy risk. Get your money as quick as you can. If you are talking five figures plus I would get a lawyer involved if he doesn’t respond to an ultimatum from you very soon. Economy is going to continue to be bad for some time and this dealer is likely in trouble. It wouldn’t surprise me if he used your consignment proceeds to pay off other creditors. The classic robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario.
No I don’t think your being harsh. Consult an Attorney ASAP and hopefully you can move against the dealer.
I suppose you could ask him when the time comes if they are on your list. Just a thought
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What is wrong with putting out the truth?
Why protect a guilty party?
As long as only the facts are posted I feel that is OK!
I outed a dealer many years ago. Don Willis deleted the thread and made it clear this forum was not to be used for that. I suspect that is still the case although the Kryptonite Comics saga was clearly an exception.
I believe it’s against forum rules. Also, it’s a rare occurrence when just the “facts” are presented and posting such accusations can subject the poster to a claim of libel.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The OP needs to protect his interests period . He doesn’t need anymore headaches then he already has. I can think of several things that could happen from here and none of them are good for the OP. Things could go further south or sideways. He doesn’t owe the forum anything. He needs a lawyer who would tell him not to say another word.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Just when you think you've heard of all the excuses for a non payment.
Yikes. Get legal counsel and do it quickly.
Hopefully, the person will have to reimburse you for your lawyer expenses as well. I'm sure it isn't cheap.
This dealer sounds like he's having serious financial problems and may be on the verge of bankruptcy or skipping town. The longer you wait, the less likely you will get your money or any money.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
At minimum, please retrieve all remaining coins of yours that the dealer still has. Go online to BBS and see if anyone has filed a complaint against them. While you are there, note any affiliations they have posted. Gather the information you need to move forward professionally and garner their full attention.
Business is business.