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Consignment to a dealer

jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,348 ✭✭✭

I made a sizable consignment to a well known dealer of seemingly solid repute.
I’ve recently learned that the dealer used proceeds of the consignment for home improvements rather than to pay me. He now wants me to wait until he sells his home to pay me my share claiming he didn’t anticipate the pandemic.

I’ve informed him that I believe his conduct is improper irrespective of the pandemic.

Am I being too harsh?

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Comments

  • edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pandemic my ass. Based on the scenario you have provided, it appears to me the dealer did not have solid repute at the time the consignment was accepted.

  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,124 ✭✭✭✭

    It is very difficult these days to stun me, but you just did. I'm with the consensus.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,348 ✭✭✭

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @jdillane said:
    I made a sizable consignment to a well known dealer of seemingly solid repute.
    I’ve recently learned that the dealer used proceeds of the consignment for home improvements rather than to pay me. He now wants me to wait until he sells his home to pay me my share claiming he didn’t anticipate the pandemic.

    I’ve informed him that I believe his conduct is improper irrespective of the pandemic.

    Am I being too harsh?

    Nope. I view that as unethical. I'd suggest to him that he borrow some money against his home to pay consignors ASAP. Otherwise he's making his problem your problem.

    Was there any sort of agreement regarding the time frame for payment of proceeds and penalties for late payment? If not, there probably should have been.

    He had paid promptly in the past. I had instructed him to alert me within 24 hours of any sale. But when he told me earlier this week he thought a check was at the PO Box from an installment sale, I nudged him today about getting his mail. He said he’d try to make it to post office. This underwhelmed me. And then the other shoe dropped.

  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,348 ✭✭✭

    I’ll give him some time to make this right. I wanted the funds to help my daughter put a down payment on a house. She’s now telling me she might not need my help.

    If he doesn’t make it right, I’ll explore both civil and criminal recourse. The amount involved is felony level so I hope he does right.

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • HJPHJP Posts: 404 ✭✭✭

    Yes, another consignment nightmare.

    I too have had some poor experiences consigning to "well known" dealer. Somethings everyone who is thinking about consigning needs to consider are:

    1) When you hand over your coins to a dealer, essentially they now "own" them. Perhaps not in a strictly legal sense, but in all other ways, including controlling the sale price and duration of sales efforts and when they will pay you.

    2) Dealers love consignments (Some only operate on consignment - wonder why?).

    3) It's your money tied up, not theirs. You take all the risks. All they do is offer a sales channel, nothing more (usually).

    4) In my experience, especially with non-rock star coins, dealers don't really put out much effort (other than spending 10 seconds to keep relisting a coin that wont well on eBay). It takes about 2 min to take a few nice photos and another 2-3 minutes to write up a nice description and voila - the sum total of the dealers work is done. All they do is wait for the auction to run its course. Real tough job...

    5) Watch out for the "I'll get the coins graded & you can pay me for the nice grades that "we" get" tactic...

  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,077 ✭✭✭✭

    Please let us know who so we can avoid! PM as necessary.

    "It's not that life is short but that you're dead for so long"
  • PhilLynottPhilLynott Posts: 620 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is absurd I would be pretty irate which doesn't happen often

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 24,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He's fully in the wrong and I can't believe you are being so nice.
    I'd love to know (a PM would be fine) who this is as I may be looking to consign some stuff in the near future (my son is entering college soon) and I sure wouldn't want to go through something like this. What type of coins?

    Question:
    When you consigned, was there a written agreement with terms? Who gave the agreement to the other, if so? Did you have one for him or did he have one for you?

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 37,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please PM me this dealer's name. Thanks.

  • isaiah58isaiah58 Posts: 237 ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020 2:41PM

    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this dealer licensed with the state? Are they not affiliated with a Numismatic network of some kind? They have a fiduciary responsibility as a licensed dealer. Are they a direct buyer from the US Mint?

    You need to act now, otherwise as they continue to steal from others you will be essentially a knowledgeable participant of their criminal action and potentially liable for not reporting it.

    Let them know you require payment in full, even if at wholesale value of bullion they can prove they personally own. Cash is king though in this situation.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This may not be the best suggestion, but I would tell you to go after his ass ASAP!

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • 1Bufffan1Bufffan Posts: 146 ✭✭✭

    The Dealer when he sold the Item did not say to the buyer here is the coin pay me later, he wanted paid right away and you should not have to wait more than 7 to 10 days to receive your payment that is if any checks had to clear, I would certainly go after him no matter what he has for an excuse! It's your money it was your property that you entrusted to him, it was Sold money traded hands now get your hands on your cash do not let it linger!!!

  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Strange world we live in these days...

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • savitalesavitale Posts: 861 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Out of curiosity, were there any terms to the consignment? Like payment within xx days?

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,041 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He has one HELL OF A LOT OF NERVE.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,041 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He may have a hard time selling a home in this environment. GO AFTER HIM! or wait 6 months for your money.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,151 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PTVETTER said:
    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    That could be construed as extortion. Don't do it.

    W.A.S.P.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:

    @PTVETTER said:
    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    That could be construed as extortion. Don't do it.

    And I wouldn’t PM his or her name to anyone either. Thats a no win situation as well.

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭✭

    Now that his story has changed ( no longer used the money on home improvement as he originally stated) I would be more inclined to contact a lawyer. If you feel comfortable I would also like a name.
    Good luck!!!!

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,151 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Depending on amount involved, sue him without delay. Just get it started. I assume you have records proving everything you've posted.

    W.A.S.P.

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 24,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:

    @topstuf said:

    @PTVETTER said:
    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    That could be construed as extortion. Don't do it.

    And I wouldn’t PM his or her name to anyone either. Thats a no win situation as well.

    mark

    I might agree EXCEPT for the fact that this may happen to someone else and then we have a bad situation. That's already been played out, even on this forum with 2 well known "good guy" dealers in the past. Did not go well for many and it could have been nipped in the bud early if the early ones hit by it had warned folks.
    No need to exaggerate what is happening, just PM truth about it to those interested so they can be safe.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 21,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    File a lien against his home, immediately.

    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 24,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PTVETTER said:
    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    In the old days, yes. Currently, no. That would get the OP a timeout at the best, but possibly a ban from here, when moderation returns. That's why I asked the OP for a PM of the name.

    I have a collection of half-cents I am looking to sell. I have some old gold I am tempted to sell. I have some other coins. I may be looking to consign to a dealer instead of doing it myself. I don't want to go through this type of mess. I have a few well known dealers in mind for some of the items, and I sure as shooting am hoping that none of them are the one from the OP.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020 7:23PM

    @Bochiman said:

    @Justacommeman said:

    @topstuf said:

    @PTVETTER said:
    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    That could be construed as extortion. Don't do it.

    And I wouldn’t PM his or her name to anyone either. Thats a no win situation as well.

    mark

    I might agree EXCEPT for the fact that this may happen to someone else and then we have a bad situation. That's already been played out, even on this forum with 2 well known "good guy" dealers in the past. Did not go well for many and it could have been nipped in the bud early if the early ones hit by it had warned folks.
    No need to exaggerate what is happening, just PM truth about it to those interested so they can be safe.

    It’s a zero win situation for the OP and I stand by my comment. I’d act immediately via lawyer and that’s all. Once you Pm somebody you may as well just post it for the world to see. It won’t be held in confidence whether by accident or loose lips. This forum is the worlds worst sewing circle

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 11,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PM sent. I don't want to give the culprit any ideas....

    2nd class collector of NON-PREMIER COINS.....

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 24,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:

    @Bochiman said:

    @Justacommeman said:

    @topstuf said:

    @PTVETTER said:
    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    That could be construed as extortion. Don't do it.

    And I wouldn’t PM his or her name to anyone either. Thats a no win situation as well.

    mark

    I might agree EXCEPT for the fact that this may happen to someone else and then we have a bad situation. That's already been played out, even on this forum with 2 well known "good guy" dealers in the past. Did not go well for many and it could have been nipped in the bud early if the early ones hit by it had warned folks.
    No need to exaggerate what is happening, just PM truth about it to those interested so they can be safe.

    It’s a zero win situation for the OP and I stand by my comment. I’d act immediately via lawyer and that’s all. Once you Pm somebody you may as well just post it for the works to see. It won’t be held in confidence whether by accident or loose lips. This forum is the worlds worst sewing circle

    m

    I hear you on that, but I'll also stand by my comment that it could prevent some serious issues in the future...and could have possibly saved a forum life years ago.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭✭

    @Bochiman said:

    @PTVETTER said:
    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    In the old days, yes. Currently, no. That would get the OP a timeout at the best, but possibly a ban from here, when moderation returns. That's why I asked the OP for a PM of the name.

    I have a collection of half-cents I am looking to sell. I have some old gold I am tempted to sell. I have some other coins. I may be looking to consign to a dealer instead of doing it myself. I don't want to go through this type of mess. I have a few well known dealers in mind for some of the items, and I sure as shooting am hoping that none of them are the one from the OP.

    Moderation hasn't left.

  • Wahoo554Wahoo554 Posts: 424 ✭✭✭✭

    I hate to say it, but this guy sounds like a bankruptcy risk. Get your money as quick as you can. If you are talking five figures plus I would get a lawyer involved if he doesn’t respond to an ultimatum from you very soon. Economy is going to continue to be bad for some time and this dealer is likely in trouble. It wouldn’t surprise me if he used your consignment proceeds to pay off other creditors. The classic robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2020 6:13PM

    No I don’t think your being harsh. Consult an Attorney ASAP and hopefully you can move against the dealer.

    US & World Coins / Currency
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bochiman said:

    @PTVETTER said:
    If he doesn't agree to pay you in x number of days let him you will post this information with his name here and other sites.
    That may get his attention!

    In the old days, yes. Currently, no. That would get the OP a timeout at the best, but possibly a ban from here, when moderation returns. That's why I asked the OP for a PM of the name.

    I have a collection of half-cents I am looking to sell. I have some old gold I am tempted to sell. I have some other coins. I may be looking to consign to a dealer instead of doing it myself. I don't want to go through this type of mess. I have a few well known dealers in mind for some of the items, and I sure as shooting am hoping that none of them are the one from the OP.

    I suppose you could ask him when the time comes if they are on your list. Just a thought

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is wrong with putting out the truth?
    Why protect a guilty party?
    As long as only the facts are posted I feel that is OK!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭✭

    I outed a dealer many years ago. Don Willis deleted the thread and made it clear this forum was not to be used for that. I suspect that is still the case although the Kryptonite Comics saga was clearly an exception.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PTVETTER said:
    What is wrong with putting out the truth?
    Why protect a guilty party?
    As long as only the facts are posted I feel that is OK!

    I believe it’s against forum rules. Also, it’s a rare occurrence when just the “facts” are presented and posting such accusations can subject the poster to a claim of libel.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions

    *Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my own personal opinions.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just when you think you've heard of all the excuses for a non payment.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit
  • btcollectsbtcollects Posts: 338 ✭✭✭

    Coin collectors - myself included - should understand the ins and outs of how consignments are treated in bankruptcy. It seems to happen enough, whenever there's a bump in the road. My understanding is that the way most of us do things, our consignments and proceeds from their sale are at risk when the music stops for the insolvent consignee. We'd probably all gasp if the dealer in this situation was able to successfully claim that this was a business mistake outside his control, and discharge the obligation to return the OP's consignment or proceeds, right? But I've seen stuff like that happen before.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yikes. Get legal counsel and do it quickly.

  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    Hopefully, the person will have to reimburse you for your lawyer expenses as well. I'm sure it isn't cheap.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 37,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This dealer sounds like he's having serious financial problems and may be on the verge of bankruptcy or skipping town. The longer you wait, the less likely you will get your money or any money.

  • isaiah58isaiah58 Posts: 237 ✭✭✭

    At minimum, please retrieve all remaining coins of yours that the dealer still has. Go online to BBS and see if anyone has filed a complaint against them. While you are there, note any affiliations they have posted. Gather the information you need to move forward professionally and garner their full attention.

    Business is business.

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