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Help please! 1909-S VDB
Kliao
Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
A person contacted me with pictures of a off center ‘09s VDB to sell. I’m very suspicious of the coin being genuine. Would like a few others opinions.
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VERY, VERY DOUBTFUL
Just my gut reaction.
BHNC #203
Yes especially with him not being able to provide a clear picture of the reverse.
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Run far, run fast. If that was anything close to legitimate they would make far more by having it certified.
The S looks too big and is too high up. Fake IMO.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
Not genuine.
PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok thanks all.
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
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Worth 3 cents.
Just my Two cents.
Abe and the wheat stalks look off also.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Yeap...MM is all wrong.
Not doubtful at all. Totally, completely fake, without any doubt.
On the plus side, it's also completely illegal to counterfeit US coins, so you could sic the US Secret Service on the seller if you had a mind to go down that route.
And you should, so the cops can at the least seize that item and get it out of circulation. IMO. Peace Roy
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Why isn't this coin graded ... I don't like it.
There are 4 known mm locations for a genuine 1909-SVDB. In addition the location of the periods in VDB as well as the middle bar of the B can be used as diagnostics
Fake.
If a picture wasn't going very well I'd put a puppy dog in it, always a mongrel, you know, never one of the full bred puppies. And then I'd put a bandage on its foot... I liked it when I did it, but now I'm sick of it.
Norman Rockwell
Mushy detail... Very bad fake.
I would never buy an 09SVDB that isn't graded. Period.
Any seller should know the issue with fakes and realize that it is well worth getting that coin graded. If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.
Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.
Agree. MOST VDBs I see in collections are raw. I mean 80%. It's not even close.
That doesn't mean people don't need to be careful with raw but it is a myth that all our even most such coins are slabbed. Same with most other 20th century keys
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
My 09-S VDB isn't slabbed. In my defense, I'm not sure which grading company I should have been considering in 1972.
Here is an auction with the same fake die, with better AT
https://ebay.co.uk/itm/coinage-error-one-cent-1909-S-/114063036146?hash=item1a8eafcef2%3Ag%3AJjAAAOSwhcZeGw0b&nma=true&si=SRTrYp52UkngXEXth0ST5SRrvkk%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I was intrigued with their fake 55 DDO
Many of these old sets have fake key date coins. It was not unusual to find a 1909 VDB cent with an S mintmark glued on as far back as at least the 1950's.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Sure, that's always possible. Doesn't change the fact that lots of legitimate pieces are still raw.
These were being sold on Aliexpress or Alibaba (don't remember which one) and it is a fake.
bob
Yes. 55 DDO off centers also.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Kinda looks like this -
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/American-Penny-1909-S-VDB-Out_62423753536.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.3b8e2adaRJVpLP
I think my own opinion on this has been misunderstood.
I am not saying that there are not legitimate pieces that aren't slabbed, but rather that anyone selling such a coin today should get it slabbed for the very reason that there are so many fakes that being slabbed will increase its marketabity.
The fact that the coin in the original post is a known Chinese forgery sort of proves the point. It's not slabbed because it is fake. Potential buyers beware.
Now we have fingerprints (on the finger).
I’m sure the three-lettered agencies could do something with it if of enough interest... if...
Clearly a fake...there are many venues for these....Just being raw, does not necessarily indicate a fake....as mentioned above, many, many collections in albums, have key coins not slabbed...Due diligence required...Cheers, RickO
The counterfeiters use the same dies to create both non-error key date coins and error key date coins. They're getting quite creative.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
With six you get egg roll.
If we say "oooh", it causes a flood of more low-life beings to churn out fodder.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.
And then there are collectors out there who will break a coin such as 1909 SVDB out of its TPG holder so that it can reside in an album with the other coins.
Carefully done, breakout can be accomplished keeping the holder intact. Dremel works great to accomplish this.
If a picture wasn't going very well I'd put a puppy dog in it, always a mongrel, you know, never one of the full bred puppies. And then I'd put a bandage on its foot... I liked it when I did it, but now I'm sick of it.
Norman Rockwell
I would never buy an 09SVDB that isn't graded. Period.
Good advice. And I say this with myself having the requisite knowledge...
well, let's just say it would be nearly impossible to get a raw, fake 1909 SVDB by me.
At the end of the day, the solution for me is to let someone else pay the cost of getting the SVDB slabbed.
If a picture wasn't going very well I'd put a puppy dog in it, always a mongrel, you know, never one of the full bred puppies. And then I'd put a bandage on its foot... I liked it when I did it, but now I'm sick of it.
Norman Rockwell
That is what I did - still have the holder and picture of the coin in the holder, examination will show the raw coin is that same one formerly in holder.
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This china fake can be bought for a couple bucks
bogus & pass
Totally agree. But I did once...
It was part of an estate of mostly junk silver and Franklin Mint stuff. There was also a 14-D that was clearly an added mintmark so I was skeptical and paid very little for the supposed S-VDB. It graded AU53. (And yes, I took care of the heir who sold me her dad's coins.)
Lance.